Boston Red Sox - 2005 Season

[r. mutt]

Good point, Drzy...remember that they actually put him on waivers, and in some bizarre way that got him going. So maybe all will end well.

Or maybe he'll announce his retirement. "I vant to be alone!"

[Pseudolus]

Well, according the Francona's post-game statement, he chatted with Manny this afternoon and told him he had the next two games off (plus the off day on Monday) to "clear his head". So, if we take it at face value, it's not exactly a punitive benching, and has nothing to do with any imminent trade. We'll see.

[r. mutt]

Holy shimoly, Papelbon starts today! I wasn't planning to watch, but maybe I will.

[r. mutt]

Sox picked up Jose Cruz, Jr. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-diamondbacks-redsoxtrade&prov=ap&type=lgns) from the Diamondbacks.

[PK]

...I can't for the life of me think of one single reason why Manny would rather play for the Mets than the Red Sox. I can see why he'd be happier someplace like Oakland or Tampa Bay, where no one cares about their team....There is only one MLB team with privacy problems in NYC, and it it not the Mets. He will be as hidden there as anywhere, so long as he stays away from that Bronx team.

Try it with your friends. Ask them to name as many NYC baseball teams as they can. See how many list the Dogers before the Mets.

[Pseudolus]

ProJo today says that Manny asked out of yesterday's game, then asked back in, and then Francona had that closed-door meeting with him to tell him no dice. That's a rather different version than Francona announced yesterday.

[r. mutt]

Another excellent Schilling save!

And the big kid gets to come in and play hero.

[Jables]

He's here to stay!

:wav:

(until some point next year :duh: )

[Bicycle Repair Man]

This doesn't suck.

The Yankees came back to win. That sucks. But not as much as the Sox winning and Manny staying doesn't suck.

However, the real Manny trading deadline did not pass today, since Manny would certainly clear waivers, so a trade involving another player with a bloated contract might still happen.

That would suck, but for now I'll stay happy.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I know the player of the game is probably Manny for the huge clutch hit at the absolute perfect time, or Papelbon for the nice debut performance, but Kapler deserves some kudos for his catch. Perhaps he made it look harder than it had to be, but it was still a big catch.

[Pseudolus]

Perhaps he made it look harder than it had to beMuch. He successfully extricated himself from a jam he had intricated himself into.

I vote for Big Papel.

[r. mutt]

Much. He successfully extricated himself from a jam he had intricated himself into.

I vote for Big Papel.

Papelist!

[Bicycle Repair Man]

He's here to stay!

:wav:

(until some point next year :duh: )Not necessarily. As we have already seen, Manny will certainly clear waivers, and could therefore still be traded this season in a deal involving other players who would also clear waivers.

[GefilteFish144]

Not necessarily. As we have already seen, Manny will certainly clear waivers, and could therefore still be traded this season in a deal involving other players who would also clear waivers.

Would be a Yankee fan's dream....

[RedSoxFan]

Would be a Yankee fan's dream....

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees grabbed Manny off of waivers. Steinbrenner certainly has the money to spare, and between adding that bat to the Yankees and taking it from the Sox, it would probably be just the boost the Yankees need to take the East. The Sox would like the payroll flexibility long-term, but for this season we'd be screwed.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees grabbed Manny off of waivers. Steinbrenner certainly has the money to spare, and between adding that bat to the Yankees and taking it from the Sox, it would probably be just the boost the Yankees need to take the East. The Sox would like the payroll flexibility long-term, but for this season we'd be screwed.
The Yanks have Giambi playing DH (or did the other night at least), and aside from center field (which Manny SHOULD NEVER PLAY), the Yanks are set for outfielders....so where would they put Manny?

[RedSoxFan]

The Yanks have Giambi playing DH (or did the other night at least), and aside from center field (which Manny SHOULD NEVER PLAY), the Yanks are set for outfielders....so where would they put Manny?

They've already said that they would move Matsui to CF if they found the right LF.

[Wannabe Actuary]

They've already said that they would move Matsui to CF if they found the right LF.
with a large left field to play, that would be funny to watch...

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees grabbed Manny off of waivers. Steinbrenner certainly has the money to spare, and between adding that bat to the Yankees and taking it from the Sox, it would probably be just the boost the Yankees need to take the East. The Sox would like the payroll flexibility long-term, but for this season we'd be screwed.All of those things were also true when Manny was put on Irrevocable Wiavers. Why didn't they take him then? If the Sox put Manny on waivers this year with the intent to trade him, the Yankees would be fools to claim him. The Sox would not trade him to the Yankees, and so the Yankees would be preventing a deal which is certain to weaken the Sox this season.

[RedSoxFan]

Great weekend for the Sox, as they sweep the 2nd-place central Twins.

Friday night the Sox opened a 3-0 lead against the strong Silva, summarized by Jables earlier this way: "Mueller on 2nd, Graffanino on 1st... Damon singles to right field, Mueller is waved home... the throw from right field gets by the catcher... pitcher is backing up the play, chases the ball down to throw home to try and get Graffanino out who was advancing on the throw... THAT throw gets away and when gathered is fired in to 3rd, which Damon has run past... being caught in between he breaks for home, and with plenty of time, the throw home hits Damon in the head and Damon scores." Actually just two errors were scored on the play, the middle one not being an error because Damon didn't advance because of it. The Twins wouldn't go away, though. Mueller's solo homer negated a Twins solo homer in the 7th, and in the 8th Bronson allowed a walk and a triple before being lifted (and Timlin allowed the inherited runner to score). A grand slam in the 8th from POG Olerud put the game out of reach though, as a 2-run homer from Jacques Jones in the 9th could only make the final score 8-5 (Schilling with the save). Manny was booed walking up to his first plate appearance. It was the first Sox home game since Manny asked Sox management to be traded.

On Saturday, the Sox scored once in each of the first three innings, all action in the last two of those innings coming with two outs. Olerud got his 2nd and 3rd RBIs of the game in the 6th, Varitek's single soon after make it 6-0. Wells didn't allow any runs until the 8th, when he allowed three straight hits before being relieved by Bradford, who got the next for outs without problem, and Myers finished off the 6-2 victory. Three batters made good cases for POG, Johnny (3/5 but 0 RBIs and 1 R), Olerud (2/5 with 3 RBIs but 5 LOB), and Papi (0/1 with his Red Sox-high 4 BBs), and Kapler, who made his season debut with a rousing standing ovation (2/4 with 2 Rs) but Wells gets POG for giving up just the 2 runs, going 7 innings. He allowed 7 hits and no walks and struck out 3. Manny did not play in a decision by Francona to allow him to clear his head over the trade-deadline stress.

On Sunday again, with the trade deadline at 4pm, again Manny was out of the lineup for the 2pm start. When the game was tied at 3 in the bottom of the 8th, with two outs, Renteria doubled, and Papi was intentionally walked. Stern, who had run for Olerud (tight hammy) earlier, was pinch-hit for by Manny. The appearance, at approximately 4:45pm, meant to the crowd that Manny was indeed not traded, and led to an enthusiastic standing ovation for the player they booed two days earlier, showing deep down inside that Sox fans still love Manny despite his recent antics. And he embraced the Sox fans with open arms, singling home the winning run, and saying after the game, "Forget about the trade man. This is the place I want to be man. It's great man. They love me here man. This is the place to be. 'Manny being Manny,' he's great man... we've been through a lot, this is the place for me, I'm just happy to be here... I'm back!" It overshadowed the major league debut of John Papelbon, needed because Miller and Clement are delaying starts due to injuries. He baffled the Twins hitters with his 93-95 mph fastball with good location, garnering 7 strikeouts through 5.1 innings. He lost some control in the 5th, ending up walking the bases loaded, but got out of it without damage. He allowed a solo HR in the 4th on a 90-mph fastball, and another in the 6th on a splitter. He got a strikeout, but then allowed a single and a walk before being lifted for Delcarmen. The Twins then took the 3-2 lead when one of the inherited runners scored one out later, Mueller having made a great diving play to come up with the ball but threw wide of 2nd, and the run scored instead of the inning being over. The other highlights of the game included an amazing backwards-diving catch by Kapler in the top of the 7th to preserve a 1-run deficit, a Millar sac-fly with men at the corners and none out in the 7th to tie the game, and Schilling allowing just a one-out walk in the 9th to get his 5th save.

[RedSoxFan]

All of those things were also true when Manny was put on Irrevocable Wiavers. Why didn't they take him then? If the Sox put Manny on waivers this year with the intent to trade him, the Yankees would be fools to claim him. The Sox would not trade him to the Yankees, and so the Yankees would be preventing a deal which is certain to weaken the Sox this season.

The difference is that the Yankees had always been confident that they could win the East without picking Manny up. Now the Yanks are in second, still 2.5 games back despite two straight miraculous wins, with a decimated starting rotation, with definite fear they could actually miss the playoffs. Now if you subtract Manny from the Sox and add him to the Yankees, that might be enough to put the Yankees over the top. It would definitely be worth $60M over 3 years to Steinbrenner to do that.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

The difference is that the Yankees had always been confident that they could win the East without picking Manny up. Now the Yanks are in second, still 2.5 games back despite two straight miraculous wins, with a decimated starting rotation, with definite fear they could actually miss the playoffs. Now if you subtract Manny from the Sox and add him to the Yankees, that might be enough to put the Yankees over the top. It would definitely be worth $60M over 3 years to Steinbrenner to do that.Did you read the second part? There's no way the Sox trade Manny to the Yankees. If the Yankees claim him, the Sox pull him back and Manny stays with the Sox all season. If they don't claim him and he clears waivers, there's a chance the Sox will trade him away, which helps the Yankees.

[GefilteFish144]

The difference is that the Yankees had always been confident that they could win the East without picking Manny up. Now the Yanks are in second, still 2.5 games back despite two straight miraculous wins, with a decimated starting rotation, with definite fear they could actually miss the playoffs. Now if you subtract Manny from the Sox and add him to the Yankees, that might be enough to put the Yankees over the top. It would definitely be worth $60M over 3 years to Steinbrenner to do that.

Luxury tax has put a bit of a curb on George's spending. Under the old system, Yankees would have had no problem nabbing Pedro and Beltran in the free agent market, along with picking up Jon Lieber's option. Now the luxury tax makes them think twice about these things, so Manny would be out of the question.

[yankeetripper]

My predictive powers think that the Yankees didn't pull the trigger on acquiring a centerfielder by the trade deadline because they are going to offer Damon a mega-contract when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season.

Yankee's need starting pitchers now to get them into the playoffs. Their offense seems to be surviving by letting Bernie limp through the year.

I hope you're wrong. I think Damon has 2 maybe 3 good years left in him and he is going to want at least a 5-year deal. He doesn't have a lot of pop (OK but not great) he's not a great OBP guy and his average is likely to decline as he ages. He still covers a lot of ground in CF but he's at an age where range starts to decline - see Bernie Williams career. His arm is substandard now and isn't likely to improve w/ age, again see Bernie Williams.

This year, I'll admit he's having a great year, possibly even MVP calibur, though I think that's a strech.

[RedSoxFan]

Did you read the second part? There's no way the Sox trade Manny to the Yankees. If the Yankees claim him, the Sox pull him back and Manny stays with the Sox all season. If they don't claim him and he clears waivers, there's a chance the Sox will trade him away, which helps the Yankees.

Ok, well, first I forgot that in August the waivers are revocable.

Nevertheless, a trade will only be good for the Red Sox long term, as it frees up payroll on an overpaid player to be allocated in the offseason to better-priced free agents. Further, after the end of the season Manny will be able to veto any trade because he's a 10/5 player. So it is actually to the Yankees benefit (long term) to claim Manny and have the Sox revoke, though it might be better for the Red Sox the rest of the season. However, the Sox might actually let the Yankees have Manny, in which case the Yankees would be better off (on the field, perhaps not on the balance sheet).

[RedSoxFan]

Luxury tax has put a bit of a curb on George's spending. Under the old system, Yankees would have had no problem nabbing Pedro and Beltran in the free agent market, along with picking up Jon Lieber's option. Now the luxury tax makes them think twice about these things, so Manny would be out of the question.

My whole argument is that money is meaningless to Steinbrenner (especially right now when the Yankees are staring 2nd place in the face), so how is a tax on spending going to make any difference?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

My whole argument is that money is meaningless to Steinbrenner (especially right now when the Yankees are staring 2nd place in the face), so how is a tax on spending going to make any difference?Didn't this past offseason pretty much prove that the Yankees' payroll had finally reached a ceiling?

[RedSoxFan]

Didn't this past offseason pretty much prove that the Yankees' payroll had finally reached a ceiling?

Then they weren't in second place in the East and desperate to do something to overcome their mediocre-at-best starting pitching

[RedSoxFan]

I think the Sox are up against the wall on this one. If Manny wants a place where he can have more privacy, well, too bad, because any place that can offer that can't take on the contract, and Epstein is too smart to pay too much of his salary. So, the Sox are doing the smartest thing they can do, which is trade him anywhere else and not let it be their problem.

Although, an equally smart option is to try to trade him, be unsuccessful, and keep him. That's not so bad either, it's not like he's one of those clubhouse cancers.

With one exception: Toronto. They already have the OK to add something like $40M of payroll over the next couple years. I know they called the Sox over the weekend about Manny.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Then they weren't in second place in the East and desperate to do something to overcome their mediocre-at-best starting pitchingIf they were desperate enough and willing to take on a contract the size of Manny's they would have have made a different deal at the deadline, like Junior or Helton or somebody like that.

[yankeetripper]

Didn't this past offseason pretty much prove that the Yankees' payroll had finally reached a ceiling?

There spending what like $96M on the starting rotation this year? I mean granted 60% of projected rotation is on the DL but what ceiling are you refering to, Mt. Everestt?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

There spending what like $96M on the starting rotation this year? I mean granted 60% of projected rotation is on the DL but what ceiling are you refering to, Mt. Everestt?If the budget had not reached its limit, would not the Yankees have signed Beltran?

[yankeetripper]

If the budget had not reached its limit, would not the Yankees have signed Beltran?

Don't know its a fair question. I think they've been burned on the back end of some long term contracts and didn't want to commit to 7 years. The big money long term deals have sometimes (like this year) hamstrung them when trying to make deals at the dead line. I think going forward you'll still see Yanks spend big money but they will be very reluctant to offer more than 4 years.

[RedSoxFan]

I just updated the first post of the thread for the last three games. Below I'm copying the player of the game totals from the first post. As you can see, with Ortiz on a cold non-POG streak, Manny has won four recent POGs to come within just two of Papi. Wakefield leads all pitchers with 6, while the now-Yankee Embree still leads relievers, with one more than sub-1.50 ERA Timlin (but that's how it goes, reliever POGs are usually only given when no offensive player nor the starting pitcher stand out). Other notable stats: Mueller surprisingly only has one POG, and all 6 of Renteria's, and all 5 of Millar's, POGs came in the first 55 games of the season. All of Wells' POGs come in pairs of consecutive apperances: look for a strong start Friday against the Twins.

Player of the Game totals
13 Ortiz 4 5 18 31 44 49 52 53 60 70 79 83 85
11 Ramirez 11 13 21 37 69 76 81 90 91 95 104
11 Damon 17 19 20 25 54 62 63 86 94 99 100
7 Varitek 1 2 34 40 58 66 98
6 Wakefield 7 12 67 72 77 101
6 Renteria 6 9 39 46 47 48
5 Wells 10 15 59 64 103
5 Nixon 8 32 36 88 89
5 Arroyo 14 23 28 65 80
5 Clement 16 29 43 68 73
5 Millar 3 22 30 33 55
4 Embree 24 57 71 78
3 Miller 51 61 97
3 Timlin 82 87 92
3 Halama 42 50 75
2 Olerud 84 102
2 Bellhorn 38 74
2 Foulke 45 56
1 Stern 96
1 Schilling 93
1 Mueller 41
1 Mantei 35
1 Youkilis 27
1 Mirabelli 26

[RedSoxFan]

Papelbon was just sent back to AAA after the Sox activated Jose Cruz Jr, who was acquired last week in a trade for two minor leaguers. It was either him or Manny Delcarmen. I agree with the move: though Papelbon's fastball was great, his other pitches needed more work. You could make an argument with his fastball that he could be a setup man or a closer, but I'd rather keep him as a starter so he's ready to fill in later this season if needed, and is set up well to be a member of the rotation next year.

[yankeetripper]

Way to go Matt Stairs!

[r. mutt]

Way to go Matt Stairs!

Way to go Manny Ramirez! Way to go Ron Belliard! :wink:

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Manny being Manny!
:wav:

[RedSoxFan]

Papelbon was just sent back to AAA after the Sox activated Jose Cruz Jr, who was acquired last week in a trade for two minor leaguers. It was either him or Manny Delcarmen. I agree with the move: though Papelbon's fastball was great, his other pitches needed more work. You could make an argument with his fastball that he could be a setup man or a closer, but I'd rather keep him as a starter so he's ready to fill in later this season if needed, and is set up well to be a member of the rotation next year.

They're now reporting that Pape is going to be in the bullpen in Pawtucket - to get used to appearing in a relief role vs. starting, which he had done all year. So apparently he's going to help us down the stretch as a setup man with the real good fastball, and then start somewhere next year.

[r. mutt]

An agonizing top of the 9th so far...Schilling is following the Foulke approach to closing: put men on, then work under pressure.

Of course, Millar's failure to read the "cover first" sign from the dugout didn't help either. But he's a fun guy!

[r. mutt]

And Schilling gets a weird save...but we'll take it.

[RedSoxFan]

And Schilling gets a weird save...but we'll take it.

He allowed two deep ones, one to the warning track, the other barely on the other side of the Pesky Pole.. both would have tied the game if they went out.

[Hagbard Celine]

They're now reporting that Pape is going to be in the bullpen in Pawtucket - to get used to appearing in a relief role vs. starting, which he had done all year. So apparently he's going to help us down the stretch as a setup man with the real good fastball, and then start somewhere next year.

The Rem Dawg was going on and on about Pape and how he reminded Rem of Clemens. He basically said Pape is the best pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens and said he reminded him a lot of a young Clemens. Pretty exciting stuff!

[Wannabe Actuary]

Wakefield celebrates 39th B-Day with a win....

[Pseudolus]

What was on the sign that Manny had at the beginning of the game? The radio guys saw it, but couldn't read it.

[RedSoxFan]

The Rem Dawg was going on and on about Pape and how he reminded Rem of Clemens. He basically said Pape is the best pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens and said he reminded him a lot of a young Clemens. Pretty exciting stuff!

But he also made clear the caveat that it's impossible to tell how well he'll turn out, but good news nevertheless.

[RedSoxFan]

What was on the sign that Manny had at the beginning of the game? The radio guys saw it, but couldn't read it.

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/MR_8.2_bg.jpg

"The New Episdoe... Manny being Manny"

[r. mutt]

Synchronicity: the Sox going from 3-4 vs KC to 7-4 in the same half hour that the Yankees go from 4-0 to 4-6 against the Tribe. Still plenty of game left in both cases, but middle innings are a b*tch.

[Pseudolus]

"The New Episdoe... Manny being Manny"Thanks. He also used that phrase in a teevee interview after the previous game.

Is Manny saying "That's just Manny being Manny" itself an instance of Manny being Manny?

[RedSoxFan]

Excerpt from the first Peter Gammons article written after his HOF induction:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2123868

The cell worked, the BlackBerry worked, and, yes, the Manny Ramirez updates were available, as well as most everything else right down to three emails on my BlackBerry while I was on the podium assuring me that nothing was going to happen.

Yes, the Phillies offered Billy Wagner for Juan Pierre and Barry Zito, but he wasn't going to get moved. Kevin Millwood was a dead issue by Saturday morning, and when the Mariners couldn't do Eddie Guardado to the Indians by Friday noon, Bob Wickman was off the market as well.

The one mess was the six player deal between Boston and Colorado that the Rockies thought was done Friday night. Theo Epstein has long liked Larry Bigbie, and the Rockies did the Bigbie deal with Baltimore to move him to Boston with first baseman Ryan Shealy for Adam Stern, Abe Alvarez, Kelly Shoppach and a minor leaguer.

The offer that was faxed from Boston to Colorado was not signed, or a final document. It was negotiated by assistant GM Josh Byrnes because Epstein was consumed by the Ramirez trade and trying to get Ramirez calmed down and repair his damaged feelings. It never occurred to Epstein that a simple baseball deal that did not involve money was something ownership would consider objectionable. But, indeed, ownership and its assistant, Larry Lucchino, did object, because they were focused on the Ramirez deal.

So Lucchino nixed the deal, which -- rightly -- incensed Dan O'Dowd and the Rockies. But when Lucchino called Colorado owner Charlie Monfort, he threw Byrnes under the bus and did not accept the responsibility of killing it.

By then, there was very little chance of a deal happening for Ramirez, and, fortunately by then, Epstein had repaired much of the damage, with the help of Kevin Millar and David Ortiz. The only way there would be a deal is if Boston could reach its endgame of Mike Cameron, which involved a fourth team, the Reds, and Adam Dunn; in that, Manny would have gone to the Mets; Hanley Ramirez and Mets players would have gone to Tampa Bay; Lastings Milledge and Anibel Sanchez would have gone to Cincinnati; and Boston would have received Cameron, Dunn, Aubrey Huff and Trever Miller. Tampa Bay had killed it by Saturday morning by reminding people why they are the worst franchise in modern baseball history and upping requests, and Reds GM Dan O'Brien had serious restraints because of the impending ownership change; he could not even respond to Yankee inquiries about and Junior Griffey.

In the end, Boston management is happy with the team it has, especially since Jon Papelbon and Manny Delcarmen contributed and they know that with Jon Lester, Sanchez (0.98 in Double-A) and Craig Hansen, they have some of the best high-end pitchers in the game.

And Manny is again happy, for now. There had been simmering discontent brewing for weeks. He didn't run some balls out hard. He had Pedro Martinez, still bitter about being out of Boston, in his ear. And some of the claustrophobia is justified, for the area is so Red Sox crazy he cannot go out to dinner. Epstein sympathized with him. He can't, either.

He had asked to be traded, then came the blowup in St. Petersburg. His teammates say Ramirez felt Terry Francona did him wrong because after the Tuesday game when Trot Nixon was injured, Francona didn't ask Manny to play, but sent coach Brad Mills. Francona was in a tough position, for while he usually protects his players, he had to face other veterans who were upset with Ramirez.

On Wednesday, Red Sox management agreed to keep quiet. At 8 a.m. Thursday, Lucchino did just the opposite, and Ramirez felt that he'd been lied to. When Ortiz and Millar talked to Manny, they knew Francona had already talked to him, and they told him not to worry about Lucchino. "He knows Larry wants him out of there," says one Red Sox player. "But he was told, 'Look, Larry hates all the players. Ask Jason Varitek. Ask anyone. You're not alone.' "

For now, it's all good, and Millar says, "Manny will be the best hitter in baseball the rest of the way."

[RedSoxFan]

Interesting rumor now being circulated on the Sons of Sam Horn bulletin board. When Derek Lowe went to LA, his family stayed behind in their Florida home for the rest of the school year. At one point, probably late spring, his wife came to visit him in LA and Lowe was acting kind of weird. Then Lowe left for a road trip and his wife stayed behind in LA to visit with her brother, who lives in the area. Derek called from the road and told her to go back to Florida. Then she had someone follow Derek when he returned to LA, and he often visited a certain apartment. Turns out Derek was/is having an affair with a sportscaster from a local TV station. His wife is open to reconciling, but Derek wants a divorce. The only corroborating evidence so far is the fact that the sportscaster was fired (and evidently Lowe's wife has been interviewed). The wife also said that if Lowe stayed with Boston she's certain anything like this wouldn't have happened.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Sox win their 7th in a row...Schilling gets his 7th save in 8 opportunities...things are looking good.


up to a 4.5 game lead on the Yanks, the Blue Jays are 6 back and the O's have fallen to 10.5 back due to an 8 game skid. Talk about falling fast

[Bicycle Repair Man]

The wife also said that if Lowe stayed with Boston she's certain anything like this wouldn't have happened.Apparently she hasn't been watching much NESN this year.

:love: Hazel Mae :love:

[RedSoxFan]

After the game on Sunday, when Manny had the pinch-hit game-winning RBI, Manny said in the post game interview that that was "Manny being Manny", the first time Manny had used that phrase himself. Then before the next game, he held a sign (shown above in the thread) that said the same thing. Well, in these last two games Manny was Manny, hitting a 3-run homer in both of them, and becoming only the second Red Sox to get 3 POGs in a row, the other being Renteria (in games 46-48, but hasn't had a POG since). Manny has led the Sox to tie their longest winning streak of the season, 7 games, and to their biggest lead in the AL East this season, 4.5 games.

On Tuesday Wakefield moved into third place on Boston's career victory list on his 39th birthday. This, despite allowing a 3-run homer in the first inning, and a solo shot in the 3rd. The Sox closed it to 4-3 on Manny's homer in the 4th. They scored the rest of their runs off of a guy named Ambriorix, when Cruz walked, Stern pinch-ran for him, Graffanino singled, and Stern found the plate when the right fielder let the ball by him. Then Damon singled Graffanino in, and after Renteria flied out, Ortiz singled Damon to third, and Manny singled Damon home. Timlin allowed a two two-out singles but no runs in the 8th, and Schilling walked his first batter, and allowed a real deep fly ball, and later a deep one just right of the Pesky Pole, both of which would have tied the game had they been home runs, but struck out the last two batters to end the game.

Last night it was the Sox' turn to open up the 3-0 lead in the first inning on Manny's homer. It could have been a grand slam: Damon was sent around from 2nd on Ortiz' single to shallow right, but Damon was out at the plate. Wade Miller, who skipped a start to rest his shoulder, in the 2nd allowed a 2-run homer.

In the third came the scary moment of the game. With two outs, a fly was hit to short left field, and Renteria and Manny sprint to the ball. Just after Manny caught it, Renteria's glove collided with Manny's, and pushed both into Manny's face. Renteria's arm also hit Manny in the chest on the right side. Both players fell to the ground and laid there for a couple minutes. Renteria recovered and stayed in the game, but Manny had a bloody nose, and contusions to his face and chest (he held on to the ball though). Then in the fourth, Miller allowed a solo homer to start the inning, and then Cruz misplayed a single/double to right field, and had it roll along the right field wall, before he recovered and kept the runner to a triple. The run scored an out later, when both Graffanino and Renteria (the ball bounced off of Graffanino) misplayed a possible double-play ball. Not to worry: in the bottom of the 4th, the Sox tied it when Graffanino singled Millar home from third with one out, and after consecutive singles by Cruz and Damon chased the starter, Renteria hit a sac-fly. The last runs scored off an error (Royals shortstop Berroa had 2 errors in the game, and another could have been scored an error) and two wild pitches. The final was 8-5. Schilling got another save.

[Hagbard Celine]

RedSoxFan is like the Red Sox' historian. :lol:

As for Derek Lowe, wasn't his wife Trinka Lowe, who happened to be f-ing gorgeous? Swedish bombshell?

What a dumbass.

[Hagbard Celine]

OK, maybe not "f-ing gorgeous," but he's still a dumbass.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_Photo/2004/06/28/1088433967_0987.jpg

[r. mutt]

RedSoxFan is like the Red Sox' historian. :lol:

As for Derek Lowe, wasn't his wife Trinka Lowe, who happened to be f-ing gorgeous? Swedish bombshell?

What a dumbass.

I'm not sure why her looks matter. He's a dumbass either way.

[Wannabe Actuary]

:bump:
day game...
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/live/MLB_20050804_KC@BOS

[Wannabe Actuary]

Brown hit by pitch, DeJesus scored, Gotay to third, Stairs to second.

:roll:
2-0 KC so far

[Wannabe Actuary]

:exams:
5-0 KC...Boston doesn't have a hit yet (2BB, but still only faced 7 batters through 2 innings)

[Bicycle Repair Man]

While they should be able to sweep a team like the Royals, I'll be happy with today's outcome as long as Clement doesn't get hit in the head with a line drive again.

[Wannabe Actuary]

While they should be able to sweep a team like the Royals, I'll be happy with today's outcome as long as Clement doesn't get hit in the head with a line drive again.I agree...even if the yanks win and the sox lose, we still made ground in the recent series (Sox would have gone 2-1, yanks would have gone 1-2). It's all about little baby steps. They can't run away with the division overnight

[Wannabe Actuary]

:clap:
5-1, runners on the corner with 2 out, clean-up at bat....D'OH, it's not Manny, it's Petagine...who grounds out...

[Wannabe Actuary]

:clap:
5-2
Varitek scored, Mueller to third, Cora to second on Gotay´s throwing error.
Cora safe at first on 2nd baseman Gotay´s fielding error, Varitek to third, Mueller to second.

two errors for one player on the same play...just not his day...1 out, runners at second and third, Cruz up

[Wannabe Actuary]

cruz strikes out, damon walks (the 7th BB for Boston) and up comes Renteria (the only Sox player with a hit today so far)

[Wannabe Actuary]

Bases clearing double for Renteria.....5-5
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

POG for Renteria, you heard it hear first, 2-2 4 RBI

[Wannabe Actuary]

IBB to Ortiz
then Petagine draws a walk....bases loaded again for 'Oh Captain, My Captain!'

[Wannabe Actuary]

2-0 count to V-Tek and a Grand SALAMI!!!

Oh Captain, My Captain.....Sox up 9-5 still at bat with 2 out...

ok, so maybe V-Tek took offense to my early declaration of Renteria as POG

[Wannabe Actuary]

Millar pops out to second, but an EIGHT run 4th inning for the Sox puts them up 4 runs...wooooooo hoooooo

[Ray Finkle]

Red Sox: 9 runs on 3 hits!

[Bicycle Repair Man]

2-0 count to V-Tek and a Grand SALAMI!!!I believe that was the first of his illustrious career. That makes him the easy choice for POG.

[Wannabe Actuary]

and I just realized that V-Tek scored TWICE that inning...that is impressive as well

[Wannabe Actuary]

a pitching change for KC, then one out...single, double, infield single, another out....

a run scored in there and runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 out....Ortiz leaves them there with a groundout....10-6 Sox now though....

and the Sox are up to 6 hits...

[Bicycle Repair Man]

According to Yahoo!, the score is now 0-0 in the top of the eighth with no hits for either side. I'm guessing that every Royal and every Red Sox tested positive for steroids, and Bud Selig decreed that all offensive stats for the game no longer count.

[Pseudolus]

Real score 10-8 Sox through 7.5. FYI.

[Wannabe Actuary]

8,9,2 for KC
10,8,1 for Boston

Hope that makes sense

bottom of the 8th, runner on first, one out

[yankeetripper]

Another big save for Curt.

I have to hand it to Bosox, they've beaten up on the doormats, TB & KC and kicked twins while down.

Something Yanks, unfortuately, weren't able to do earlier this year.

[r. mutt]

According to Yahoo!, the score is now 0-0 in the top of the eighth with no hits for either side. I'm guessing that every Royal and every Red Sox tested positive for steroids, and Bud Selig decreed that all offensive stats for the game no longer count.

You've apparently confused him with a Commissioner who acts quickly.

[Jables]

Wow, what a game! Did anyone else watch the rebroadcast later in the evening? If so, did anyone else notice the continually growing bellybutton sweat stains on the home plate umpire? Awesome!

[Mike and Maddog]

Olerud on DL. Manny out with blurry vision. It's a good start. Let's see a few more.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Olerud on DL. Manny out with blurry vision. It's a good start. Let's see a few more.Unlike some other teams I could name, the Red Sox have depth enough to be OK when regulars get injured. Losing Olerud is a plus because he's an ex-Yankee, plus it opens up a spot for Petagine, who will be a huge asset if he gets regular playing time.

[yankeetripper]

Olerud on DL. Manny out with blurry vision. It's a good start. Let's see a few more.

I disagree. I want to kick their a$$ when their healty so they can do any belly aching later on.

Plus I'm a sports fan first - while injuries are a part of the game I never root for them to happen. We'll maybe in Barry Bond's case I'll make an exception.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I disagree. I want to kick their a$$ when their healty so they can do any belly aching later on.You don't have luxury of worrying about the Red Sox. The lead is going to be 7 or 8 games in not too long. Start thinking about catching Oakland and staying ahead of Cleveland.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Olerud on DL. Manny out with blurry vision. It's a good start. Let's see a few more.Manny's in the lineup tonight. He owns Radke. Should be an interesting game.

[yankeetripper]

You don't have luxury of worrying about the Red Sox. The lead is going to be 7 or 8 games in not too long. Start thinking about catching Oakland and staying ahead of Cleveland.

We'll see, I've heard this before from Sox fans.

[r. mutt]

We'll see, I've heard this before from Sox fans.

Link?

[r. mutt]

Good lord, Arroyo has sucked ever since that stupid CD came out. So much for good fundamentals.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I'm glad this game isn't on tv for me, otherwise I might be ill from watching Arroyo so far...

[yankeetripper]

Link?

Sorry no link I can offer. Its been verbal with friends going back to '75.

But let me just say 3.5 is not 7 or 8.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Sorry no link I can offer. Its been verbal with friends going back to '75.

But let me just say 3.5 is not 7 or 8.well, considering it was 4.5 and only one game was played, it wasn't going to be 7 or 8 anyway. :shake:

you would have to wait at least 3 or 4 games...

I mean soon can mean many things, a week, a month...

[r. mutt]

But let me just say 3.5 is not 7 or 8.

The actuary in me approves. :wink:

[RedSoxFan]

Thursday's day game saw the return of Matt Clement, who got a pitch off his head in his previous outing, just a week and two days prior. Clement didn't show any ill-effects, but was rusty, allowing the Royals to open up a 5-0 lead. Renteria hit an RBI double in the 3rd, and the Sox then rescued Clement with an 8 run rally in the 4th, which began with a run (Varitek) scoring on a play that saw the Kansas City second basement earn 2 errors, and ended on Varitek's first career grand slam (he had entered 2nd on the list of active players with the most at-bats without a grand slam, 120). Shortly before that, Renteria hit a 3-RBI double. During that inning the Sox had just those two hits, but had 5 walks. Kansas City closed the lead to 10-8 in the 7th, when Bradford allowed two runners inherited from Gonzalez to score on grounder sacrifices. A Varitek double put the Sox up 11-8, and Schilling allowed a solo homer to begin his outing in the 9th, but allowed no other hits to pick up the save. Now usually going 3/4 and a walk with 4 RBIs and 2 runs is sufficient for POG (Renteria), Varitek gets it for going 2/4 with a walk and 5 RBIs and 2 runs, and most importantly, his first career grand slam. Damon was the only other Sox to get an RBI. Boston extended its season-long winning streak to 8 games.

If you're going to see an 8-game winning streak come to an end, you might as well do it in style. The Sox had the momentum for just one batter, when Damon tripled to start the game. He wouldn't score, and Lew Ford (who would later rob Millar of a 2-run homer) tripled to start the bottom of the inning. Ford scored on an ensuing grounder, and then Bronson loaded the bases on singles. Then came the critical play: a grounder came softly towards Bronson, who had to stride to his left to field it. Rather than come home for the sure force out, or throw home for the possible double play at home and at first, Bronson threw towards second to start a double play, but he threw wide, and all three baserunners scored. There had been another iffy fielding play just before that on the third of the three singles Bronson allowed. The grounder came softly to Millar, who fielded it by taking a few steps in. He possibly could have darted over to tag the runner and still throw home if the runner on third broke, but he instead first looked the runner back, then turned to toss to first. However, Graffanino had not made his way over to first yet, and Bronson stopped when both he and Millar were close to fielding the ball, so Millar had to keep it, and everyone was safe.

The Sox only got three hits the rest of the game, two in the 7th. Bronson allowed three more in the 4th before departing. Gonzalez finished off the game, being left in in the 8th even as the lead grew from 7-0 to 12-0 between the first and second outs of the inning. No Sox reached base more than one time, and POG goes to Mike Myers, who somehow got four outs and allowed a walk on just 9 pitches. Manny returned after sitting out a game due to blurry vision after his collision with Renteria.

[r. mutt]

That was truly pathetic. The second game against the Twins, that is.

[tommie frazier]

saw game 2 vs the twins live.

decent game. 9th inning was a cluster-f.

just a debacle.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I have nothing to say about baseball, but I wanted to mention that even after having seen it about a billion times, I am still greatly aroused every time that clumsy woman puts her lucky chip in her cleavage. Sometimes the only thing keeping me watching a painful half-inning is the faint hope that they will be playing that commercial soon.

I think that woman and her lucky chip should get their own TV show. I'd watch it religiously. Every week Clumsy Woman would lose Lucky and he'd have to go through perilous adventures to get back to her bosom. That would probably make me break down and buy a TiVo.

[r. mutt]

Schilling gets another save. Silly save rule 3b.

SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

[RedSoxFan]

Saturday was the second-straight super-frustrating loss. We got to Santana for a run in the first and two more in the the fifth. Wells had allowed just one hit (and no walks) through 6.1, and then allowed five straight singles to tie the game at 3. In the top of the 7th we should have taken the lead back, when Kapler and Damon singled to lead the inning, but we couldn't score: the killer play was Manny's GIDP. In the top of the 8th Millar walked with one out, and was lifted for Stern: Stern took off on a wild pitch that bounced right next to the catcher and was easily caught at second. Mueller followed with a single, but Graffanino lined out to end the inning. Still tied going into the bottom of the ninth, Mueller threw over the head of Petagine at first on a simple grounder, the runner going to second. The next batter sacrificed to Timlin, who threw a sinker to first base that got by Petagine and ended the game. Damon went 3/5 with an RBI and a R to get POG.

The Sox avoided the sweep in what was a blowout at first but got dicey at the end. The Sox got five hits before their first out of the game, scoring four runs in the process. They got their fifth run when Stewart thought the ball he caught in left field was the third out, and threw the ball into the stands, when it was really the second out. The Sox could have had more runs in the next two innings but Ortiz and Mirabelli hit into double-plays. In the bottom of the third, Wakey allowed four-straight one-out singles, and then Cora, playing third, earned a throwing error on a grounder that allowed another run to score. The Sox restored the five-run lead on a bases loaded-double by Petagine in the 5th that cleared the bases. It was Petagine's first hit since coming up to the Red Sox. Then a Manny homer in the 7th made it 10-3, but Wakey gave up one more in the 7th. Kapler's solo homer then made it 11-4, the score going into the bottom of the 9th. Delcarmen came in and got the first two outs easily, but then allowed a walk, a single, a 2-run double, then another single, and then a walk to put the tying run in the on-deck circle. Schilling, who almost got the entire series off to rest, had to come in, and actually walked in a run to make it 11-7 and to put the tying run at the plate, but he got a strikeout to end the game. Renteria got robbed by Manny of a POG again. Edgar went 3/5. Millar went 3/5 and Kapler went 3/4. POG goes to Manny for being Manny, going 4/4 with 3 each of RBIs and Rs.

[RedSoxFan]

I should also have mentioned that Wakey got a career-high 11 strikeouts in his 8-inning victory over the Twins yesterday.

[r. mutt]

I should also have mentioned that Wakey got a career-high 11 strikeouts in his 8-inning victory over the Twins yesterday.

He clearly should have been PoG. You and your offense bias. :roll2:

[RedSoxFan]

Graffanino!!
:wav:

Making a big push for his first POG!

[Jables]

Graffanino!!
:wav:

Making a big push for his first POG!

Definitely...he did everything right tonight! :D

[Wannabe Actuary]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/08/bc.bba.redsox.youkilis.ap/index.html

Sox recall Youk and designate Cruz for assignment...

on another note, Foulke threw in the bullpen, but is still far from coming back off the DL

[RedSoxFan]

Mark who? Looks like we have a new (permanent) second baseman: last night, Graffanino did it all. He went 3/3, with a 3-run homer that broke a 5-5 tie, he scored from third on a wild pitch in a close play at the plate to break a 4-4 tie, he scored on a hustle play from second on Damon's 2-RBI single that made it 10-5 in the 7th, and was involved in turning two double-plays. Each of the last four batters in the lineup, in fact, each had at least two hits (Millar, Petagine, Graffanino, and Cora), only the third time the Sox have done that in the past five years.

For the second straight game all nine batters came to the plate in the first inning, chasing Rodriguez after getting just two outs, highlighted by Ortiz' 2-run homer, rebounding from the top of the first, when Wade allowed the first four batters to reach base en route to allowing 3 runs. The Rangers then tied it at 4 in the 2nd when Petagine attempted to field a grounder right to him but couldn't decide whether to backhand it or catch it straight forward, and ended up Bucknering it. Wade allowed another in the 5th that tied it at 5, and left the game going only 4.1 innings. Gonzalez was the pitcher-of-the game, as he got out of the jam getting a double play, and then pitched two more innings, allowing just one hit in each one. Timlin later actually allowed a run of his own, that cut the lead to 11-6. Bradford finished off the game in the 9th, sparing the Sox of more late-inning dramatics.

[Pseudolus]

Friggin' Renteria.

[MountainHawk]

Good thing they got rid of OCab for him.

[r. mutt]

Friggin' Francona.

IFYFQ.

[Drzy]

I blame Epstein for Renteria.

[Pseudolus]

Despite recent events, I stand by my previous statement.

[Ray Finkle]

Renteria!!!! Redemption!

[Pseudolus]

Schill just called Renteria a "clutch hitter". :exams:

[Jables]

:wav:

:party:

[Pseudolus]

Mike Remlinger is old.

[Jables]

Mike Remlinger is old.

and busted!

Then again, we could have Cla Meredith... <shudder>

[Triangle Man]

The premature end to Kenny Rogers' suspension can only be a good thing for the Red Sox. There's no way the baseball gods will allow him to get a win in his first start back. If he's even the slightest bit rusty, (and how can he not be) the Sox are going to score four runs in the first inning.

[Hagbard Celine]

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NYFF10608100247.jpeg

[RedSoxFan]

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NYFF10608100247.jpeg

Ooh, is this like the caption challenge?

I've got one: "Yankees fan, despondent over their terrible season, tries to commit suicide by dropping from the upper deck, but forgets that he was sitting behind home plate. He then realizes he's just as much a failure as the Yankees have been."

[Wannabe Actuary]

Ooh, is this like the caption challenge?

I've got one: "Yankees fan, despondent over their terrible season, tries to commit suicide by dropping from the upper deck, but forgets that he was sitting behind home plate. He then realizes he's just as much a failure as the Yankees have been.":notworth:

[RedSoxFan]

Renteria had been 0/5 with 2 errors on the night coming into his at-bat in the bottom of the 10th, with men at first and second with one out. He smoked a ball just inside the third base line to plate Mueller from second. Mueller, who had singled to lead off the inning, also hit a solo homer in the third for the Sox' first run, and earned POG honors.

Both of Renteria's errors were costly. The runner he allowed to reach with 2 outs in the 4th ended up tying the game at 1 after two singles. Then, in the top of the 7th, the Rangers had men at first and second and none out, and had just cut the Sox lead to 7-3. The Sox had the shift on Blalock and Mueller fielded the ball, and threw it to Renteria who was moving towards third. The ball apparently rattled around in Renteria's glove and came out as Renteria was going to throw the ball to first to get the double play. The umpire judged Renteria never had control, so not even the runner at second was out. That ended the appearance for Mike Remlinger, just picked up in a trade with the Cubs, who allowed a double, a walk, and the RBI single, and should have been lifted there, but Tito let him in to face one more batter. Anyway, the bases were then loaded with none out, and all four eventually scored while Bradford was on the mound. Only the line out that Myers got from Dellucci, his only batter, ended the rally at a 7-7 tie.

The Sox had taken their 2-1 lead in the 4th on a Millar sac-fly (Millar just before barely missed a home run just a foot or two wide of the foul pole in left), and after the game was tied at 2, the Sox took the 7-2 lead in a rally in the 5th. The Sox had just Damon on base with two outs, when Millar walked, and Petagine singled in two runs. Mueller walked to load the bases, and the 7th run scored when Cora was hit by a pitch.

Ortiz nearly missed getting a 2-run homer in the 8th that would have made it 9-7: his shot to deep right was caught on the warning track. Timlin pitched the 8th perfectly and Schilling went two innings, giving up a one-out double in the 10th.

Other notes: the Sox traded Jose Cruz Jr away for a player that doesn't even have a name yet (must be a baby?), Damon has a 13-game hitting streak and remains the AL's batting leader, and Kenny Rogers' 20 game suspension was shortened to 13 games (time served) and plans to start tonight. He's the Rangers' best pitcher, but he should be rusty. The Sox hope to finish the season series with the Rangers with a 7-2 mark: hopefully Arroyo rebounds from his recent poor starts.

[Ray Finkle]

Pale Hose 2-1 again!
:clap:

[Jables]

Pale Hose 2-1 again!
:clap:

Deja BOOM! :lol:

[Jables]

And if we can keep them to 2 runs per game, I like our chances in the weekend Sox^2 series...

[RedSoxFan]

Season-high 5 game lead!

[r. mutt]

I think we get both Garland and Buehrle this weekend, don't we? Yeesh.

[yankeetripper]

I think we get both Garland and Buehrle this weekend, don't we? Yeesh.

We missed em both, didn't help us much.

[Triangle Man]

How the $&*#^$ do they think that was a double when it bounced UP after hitting the wall?

Terrible call. These umps have been singularly awful all series.

[Triangle Man]

How 'bout that arm on Damon!

[Drzy]

How the $&*#^$ do they think that was a double when it bounced UP after hitting the wall?That was actually really, really, really bad. Maybe they didn't know where the line was? That's the only realistic possibility I can think of.

[Drzy]

Certainly no question on that one. I wonder if he'll get plunked for staring at it though.

[Triangle Man]

That was actually really, really, really bad. Maybe they didn't know where the line was? That's the only realistic possibility I can think of.If that were the case, I would hope that Francona would've got himself ejected.

[Triangle Man]

That one landed in a RemDawg!

[Triangle Man]

I'm still a big Bellhorn fan, but this Graffanino guy is making me not miss him very much.

[Triangle Man]

I'll tell you one thing. I'd hate to be the guy who gets to interview Kenny Rogers after this one.

[r. mutt]

Unbelievable call on the home run. And Gabey doesn't get enough of those to spare any!

I had just about given up on Arroyo...not that he's in the clear* yet.





* not a drug reference

[Triangle Man]

I think this game is at last bullpen-proof. Send Remlinger out there again.

[Jables]

Season-high 5 game lead!

Make it 5.5... :)

Third time this season the Sox put up 17 runs (at least according to what the score should have been)...

[PK]

How the $&*#^$ do they think that was a double when it bounced UP after hitting the wall?

Terrible call. These umps have been singularly awful all series.I missed most of the early game. (I did spend a couple of hours watching the 8th inning. :wink: )Can you give some clues about what this and the following posts are referring to? Did something happen?

[Triangle Man]

I missed most of the early game. (I did spend a couple of hours watching the 8th inning. :wink: )Can you give some clues about what this and the following posts are referring to? Did something happen?Kapler hit a home run off the top of the green monster, but the umpires called it a double.

[Wannabe Actuary]

here's a diagram...the ball follows the path of the blue line from A to B....the red dot on the green wall diagram is the HR line on the wall....

[MountainHawk]

here's a diagram...the ball follows the path of the blue line from A to B....the red dot on the green wall diagram is the HR line on the wall....

I find it highly unlikely that the ball feel in a straight line from A to the top of the wall. This diagram is a fraud. ;)

[Wannabe Actuary]

I find it highly unlikely that the ball feel in a straight line from A to the top of the wall. This diagram is a fraud. ;):swear:

so it's a little off...would you like an edit?

[MountainHawk]

Edit won't help. The proof of your fraud is saved for posterity. :D

[PK]

Kapler hit a home run off the top of the green monster, but the umpires called it a double. here's a diagram Thanks.

I did see a short piece they put together about all the close calls that the umps have blown in this series. That one wasn't included, perhaps because they didn't have time to edit it in. I didn't pay enough attention to see if all the ones they showed were from previous games or not.

The bottom of the eighth made it moot from a team perspective. Kapler's individual stats will suffer, but long term it won't affect him either.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Thanks.

I did see a short piece they put together about all the close calls that the umps have blown in this series. That one wasn't included, perhaps because they didn't have time to edit it in. I didn't pay enough attention to see if all the ones they showed were from previous games or not.

The bottom of the eighth made it moot from a team perspective. Kapler's individual stats will suffer, but long term it won't affect him either.I agree, but at the time the Sox were down 1-0....that would have tied it. Instead, it's a double and the next batter gets out, leaving him stranded and the Sox still losing. Umps can't blow that call, period.

[MountainHawk]

If you are going to have a 3 million foot high wall, occassionally umpires are going to miss that. They are standing a couple of hundred feet away and are an additional 40 feet or so away from where the ball is due to the height. I'd have to see the replay in full time, but I bet it was pretty instanteous that the ball came back into play. It'd be nice for them to get it right all the time, but noone is perfect.

[Hagbard Celine]

but noone is perfect.

Unfortunately, Noone is no longer umpiring. ;)

[MountainHawk]

Unfortunately, Noone is no longer umpiring. ;)

Argh! :)

[Triangle Man]

If you are going to have a 3 million foot high wall, occassionally umpires are going to miss that. They are standing a couple of hundred feet away and are an additional 40 feet or so away from where the ball is due to the height. I'd have to see the replay in full time, but I bet it was pretty instanteous that the ball came back into play. It'd be nice for them to get it right all the time, but noone is perfect.But this was a pretty hard call to get wrong. The ball is coming down, it hits *something* and bounces up. You'd have to be blind not to have observed that. Therefore the ball had to have hit a horizontal surface, not a vertical one, and the only horizontal surface is behind the home run line.

[Hagbard Celine]

and the only horizontal surface is behind the home run line.

Top of the scoreboard? I do realize this is considerably lower than where the ball landed, though.

[RedSoxFan]

But this was a pretty hard call to get wrong. The ball is coming down, it hits *something* and bounces up. You'd have to be blind not to have observed that. Therefore the ball had to have hit a horizontal surface, not a vertical one, and the only horizontal surface is behind the home run line.

The umpires would have had to notice the angle at which the ball left the wall, so the only explanation is that the umpires thought the ball directly hit the corner of the wall. Despite the fact that there were clearly two sounds of the ball making contact with wood. At least it didn't matter in the end!

Agree the umpiring was terrible all series. I didn't mention it after the first two games. Where was the collage of the bad calls shown? And there were bad calls both ways, they didn't favor one team over another. And Brinkman last night had a strike zone that stretched well off the right side of the plate (right side from his perspective).

[Wannabe Actuary]

The angle would be drastically different....see below....

Kapler's HR/double went from A to B (roughly)
the umps would have had to think it went from C to D...CLEARLY this did not happen.

[RedSoxFan]

The angle would be drastically different....see below....

Kapler's HR/double went from A to B (roughly)
the umps would have had to think it went from C to D...CLEARLY this did not happen.

What if the ball hit the very corner (where your red dot is)?

[Triangle Man]

What if the ball hit the very corner (where your red dot is)?It would be just the same as if it hit Fisks' Pole. It's a home run.

[Wannabe Actuary]

What if the ball hit the very corner (where your red dot is)?The angle would still be different, there would be no upward motion before it starts to fall (after contact) if it hits the face of the wall. If it hits the top of the wall, it will bounce up then come back down, which is what happened.

And yes, the line is equivalent to hitting the 'foul pole,' it's fair and a home run.

[RedSoxFan]

Are you sure? In general, if a ball hits the top of an outfield wall but bounces back into play, the ball is not a home run.

[MountainHawk]

Are you sure? In general, if a ball hits the top of an outfield wall but bounces back into play, the ball is not a home run.

I believe that depends on the ground rules of each stadium.

[yankeetripper]

Are you sure? In general, if a ball hits the top of an outfield wall but bounces back into play, the ball is not a home run.

Where they have that stuipd yellow line - if it hits the line or above its a home run.

I real statdiums the ball has to clear the fence, not just hit the top of it.

[r. mutt]

DAVID ORTIZ!!!! PoG, here he comes!

[r. mutt]

Does Schill know you can't pitch yourself into a save?

[yankeetripper]

Curt sure looked solid tonight.

[r. mutt]

Curt sure looked solid tonight.

Mo was lookin' good the other night, eh?

[Wannabe Actuary]

Mo was lookin' good the other night, eh?And today, Mo blows his first save since the two to open the season. Can ALL the yankee pitching be in shambles?

[Jables]

Woo-hoo! Can we see back-to-back 6-0 homestands? :)

[Wannabe Actuary]

we have a 13 game Home winning streak...

[Drzy]

*Home* winning streak? Bah. If you want an impressive real streak, you should get rid of this home and away stuff and be more like the Kansas City Royals!

[r. mutt]

The ridiculously good luck continues.

[Jables]

The game summary mentions September 5th being the only off day the teams have in common... is there something about August 22nd I don't know about?

[RedSoxFan]

I have a little catching up to do:

Last Wednesday, Kenny Rogers looked good early, his first start after a 13-game suspension, but the floodgates opened in the bottom of the 4th, when Renteria and Ortiz led off with singles, and Manny hit a home run. After a Varitek flyout, Millar singled, Graffanino doubled, and Mueller got an RBI single. The Sox made it 5-1 on Kapler's sac-grounder. It was later 7-1 going into the top of the 8th, when Bronson allowed consecutive doubles and then hit a batter with one out. Myers allowed an RBI double, and Bradford then allowed a single followed by a groundout-sacrficie, and the game was 7-5. Not to worry, the Sox scored 9 runs in the bottom of the inning to go up 16-5, the final margin. Bronson improved to 10-7 giving up 4 runs on 7 hits and a walk in 7.1 innings, striking out 4. Renteria was 3/6 with 3 R and 1 RBI and Graffanino was 2/5 with 2 R and 3 RBI, but Manny gets POG for going 2/3 with 2 BB and 3 R and 3 RBI. The game should have been tied in the 3rd, when Kapler hit a homer that bounced on top of the wall, then hit a border in front of the first row of fans, and bounced back onto the field. Unbelievably the umpires did not call it a home run, even after consulting with each other. Even if they didn't see it happen, they should have been able to hear the two distinct contact sounds proving the ball landed on top of the wall. The Sox improved their AL East lead to 5.5 games.

The Sox started a three game set against the White Sox last Friday, and by the end of the second inning, the other Sox had opened up a 4-0 lead against Wells. But an Ortiz 2-run double in the 4th cut it to 4-2. The Sox loaded the bases with one out in the 4th, and Kapler singled in one run. Though Carl Everett homered to make it 5-3 in the top of the 5th, Varitek hit a home run that tied it in the bottom of the inning. An Ortiz solo homer in the 7th put the Sox up 6-5, and his second homer, in the 8th, put the Sox up 9-5. Those insurance runs were crucial: Schilling got his first two batters out in the 9th, but then allowed a homer, a single, and another homer, before striking out Rowand to end the game. Ortiz got a career-high 6 RBIs and his first POG in nearly 30 games. He was 4/5 and also scored three times. Damon went 1/5 to extend his hitting streak to 15 games, it is now his third streak of that length this season. Bradford came in to get the last out of the 7th for Wells, and ended up getting that out and the first out of the 8th, throwing just five pitches, and picking up the W. The AL East lead stands at 5, as the Yankees won also on Thursday, an off day for the Sox.

The team with the best record in baseball threw out its two best pitchers against the Red Sox, and Boston came up with wins in both. Petagine hit his first homer for the Red Sox, leading off the second inning. He was also in a rally to start the third: Renteria, Ortiz, Manny, and Petagine all singled. Then after Millar popped out and Mirabelli was hit by a pitch, Mueller hit a sac-fly that made it 4-0. A Renteria RBI single in the 6th made it 5-0 and chased Garland after his shortest outing of the season, just 5.1 innings, just before a 40 minute rain delay. Wakefield had been awesome before the delay, and came out after, and promptly gave up 2 solo homers. After getting a ground out, but then allowing a double, Wakey's night was done. The Sox got a couple insurance runs in the 7th, with consecutive two-out doubles by Mueller and Graffanino, followed by a Kapler single. Remlinger came in with two outs and nobody on in the 8th, and still could not record his first out as a Sox, allowing a walk and an RBI double. Schilling came in to get the last out of the 8th, then allowed a homer to Dye to start the 9th, before getting three grounders to end the game at 7-4. Petagine went 2/4 with 2 RBIs and a R, but grounded into a double play with 1 out in the 6th, leaving the bases loaded. Papi went 3/4 with a walk and a run, but did not get an RBI. Graffanino went 3/4 with an RBI and 2 runs, but POG goes to Wakey for setting the tone before the rain delay. His final stat line was 6.2 IP, 2 ER, 7 H, 0 BB, 5 K. Wakefield is now 12-9, with four straight wins. Ortiz managed 7 straight hits over this game and the previous one. Damon did not play because of a sore hamstring. The Sox have won 13 straight at home.

Sunday was supposed to be the final game of the series, but it was rained out when the White Sox were leading 5-2 in the 4th inning. Clement was rescued from a poor start. The Yankees swept the Rangers in the 4-game weekend series, but only managed to shave two half-games from the Red Sox lead due to Red Sox idleness. The lead is now 4.5 games.

[Jables]

The streak continues! ;)

[r. mutt]

Well, this is a rather tense 9th.

[r. mutt]

Well, this is a rather tense 9th.

Not anymore, though.

[Jables]

Damn, and I was following the Yankees game too, hoping Mariano might blow his save opportunity... :swear:

[DW Simpson]

What are they paying Schilling to blow games like that? That was a work of art.

[r. mutt]

What are they paying Rivera to blow games like that? I thought he was supposed to be the best closer in the history of baseball.

IFYQ.

[Triangle Man]

Not to look forward too much, but if the Royals keep losing, the Red Sox would have a chance to give them their record-breaking 22nd straight loss.

[yankeetripper]

What are they paying Schilling to blow games like that? That was a work of art.

I'm guessing Sox fans are hoping Faulk comes back from knee injury looking something like he did last year and not just more of the same from earlier this year. Jaret Wright's ERA only 1 higher than Curt Schilling at this point.

[r. mutt]

I'm guessing Sox fans are hoping Faulk comes back from knee injury looking something like he did last year and not just more of the same from earlier this year. Jaret Wright's ERA only 1 higher than Curt Schilling at this point.

I was never a big Marshall Faulk fan. But yeah, we're ready for Schill to go back to starting.

[yankeetripper]

I was never a big Marshall Faulk fan. But yeah, we're ready for Schill to go back to starting.

Yeah, then the Sox offense will have 9 innings to overcome his rocky start.

[r. mutt]

Yeah, then the Sox offense will have 9 innings to overcome his rocky start.

:lol: Pretty funny coming from a Yankees fan. :lol:

[Triangle Man]

Papelbon-mania lives!

[Jables]

Nice decision taking Robertson out! :lol:

[Triangle Man]

I might be persuaded to throw my support for MVP to Ortiz.

:party: :party:

[Jables]

Wait a second, is this really an extra inning game I'm watching? :D

[r. mutt]

What are they paying Rivera to blow games like that? I thought he was supposed to be the best closer in the history of baseball.

IFYQA.

[Jables]

Wait a second, is this really an extra inning game I'm watching? :D

7 runs in the 10th inning!! :yikes:

'Tek 'n' Papi!

[Jables]

Nice decision taking Robertson out! :lol:

Detroit IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA
N. Robertson (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7014) 8.0 2 2 2 3 5 1 4.00
F. Rodney (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6922) 1.0 1 1 1 0 0 1 2.33
C. Dingman (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6512) 0.2 2 2 2 0 0 0 3.29
J. Walker (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5781) 0.0 4 4 4 0 0 1 3.46
F. German (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7018) 0.1 1 1 1 0 0 1 3.02

(sorry about the crappy formatting)

[r. mutt]

A special congratulations to Kevin Millar, who got bookend outs in the 10th. :roll:

[Wannabe Actuary]

Top 9th: Boston - D. Ortiz homered to deep right

Top 10th: Boston - B. Mueller grounded out to second, T. Graffanino scored, K. Youkilis to second
- J. Damon singled to right, K. Youkilis scored
- D. Ortiz homered to deep right, J. Damon and E. Renteria scored
- J. Varitek homered to deep right, M. Ramirez scored


Who's your Papi?!

[Jables]

Erm, I've had about enough of this Remlinger guy! :tfh:

[r. mutt]

Erm, I've had about enough of this Remlinger guy! :tfh:

No, really, he was good once upon a time. Let's leave him in to get that last out! :tfh: :tfh:

[r. mutt]

No, really, he was good once upon a time. Let's leave him in to get that last out! :tfh: :tfh:

M. Remlinger 1.0 2 0 0 2 1 1 18.00

And he gets that last out! :roll2:

[RedSoxFan]

Tigers and Yankees blow saves, Red Sox and Devil Rays win respectively!

[Wannabe Actuary]

Tigers and Yankees blow saves, Red Sox and Devil Rays win respectively!at least the Red Sox drove in the runs with hits...the D-Rays walked in the winning run

[r. mutt]

Tigers and Yankees blow saves, Red Sox and Devil Rays win respectively!

But does Remlinger know he can't pitch himself into a save situation? :tfh:

[Triangle Man]

Hey. Let's be nice. He lowered his ERA. It's no longer infinity. :beer:

[Wannabe Actuary]

Hey. Let's be nice. He lowered his ERA. It's no longer infinity. :beer::clap:

[RedSoxFan]

The difference is that the Yankees had always been confident that they could win the East without picking Manny up. Now the Yanks are in second, still 2.5 games back despite two straight miraculous wins, with a decimated starting rotation, with definite fear they could actually miss the playoffs. Now if you subtract Manny from the Sox and add him to the Yankees, that might be enough to put the Yankees over the top. It would definitely be worth $60M over 3 years to Steinbrenner to do that.

Peter Gammons reports that the Red Sox have not put Manny on waivers this month.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2135848&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

[Hagbard Celine]

I was listening to local sports radio the other day (Sunday?), the day after Ortiz hit into a double play that came when we really needed a hit. He hit into the shift.

A caller calls in and starts talking about how Ortiz really needs to learn how to hit to the opposite field and how Wade Boggs (I think this is who he mentioned) "made a career" out of hitting to the opposite field. His point was that he needs to make teams not shift for him, which would have made the DP a hit.

The host shut him up with one question: "Who would you most like to have at bat in a crucial situation...not just on the Red Sox, but the entire American League?" There was silence for a few seconds, then some sputtering, then the host cut in with "I don't think we should be criticizing David Ortiz' hitting approach." :lol:

All this from a talk show host that I really dislike....that was good stuff though because it's exactly what I was thinking during the caller's rant.

[Triangle Man]

I'm bewildered and befuddled. They just activated Olerud from the DL, or his rehab assignment, or whatever. That's not important. What's important is that they had to make room for him on the roster. I think after last night's game it's plainly obvious who no longer deserves to be with the big club.

That's right, Kevin Youkilis!

:confused:

[Drzy]

The host shut him up with one question: "Who would you most like to have at bat in a crucial situation...not just on the Red Sox, but the entire American League?"A-Rod. Sorry guys. :)

[Hagbard Celine]

A-Rod. Sorry guys. :)

Well, you get his point anyway. :)

[Triangle Man]

A-Rod. Sorry guys. :)How many postseason game-winning home runs did A-Rod hit last year? How many has he hit in his entire career?

[Jables]

Reminder:

1:00 PM game time today!

[RedSoxFan]

A-Rod. Sorry guys. :)

Are you crazy?

Evidence A: 2004 ALCS Game 4
Evidence B: 2004 ALCS Game 5

I rest my case.

[Drzy]

How many postseason game-winning home runs did A-Rod hit last year? How many has he hit in his entire career?
But alas, he’s the best hitter in the AL and I’d want the best hitter up there. Regardless of past performance (we all know about the small sample size, and it’s not like his pressure performance is that bad anyway), I think A-Rod’s bat would be most likely to deliver.

[Drzy]

Are you crazy?

Evidence A: 2004 ALCS Game 4
Evidence B: 2004 ALCS Game 5

I rest my case.Editted to change to more effective comment

Is your reliance on small sample sizes why you picked the Cardinals to finish 3rd this season? :-P

[RedSoxFan]

Curt had struggled recently, but hadn't actually blown a save recently, until Monday night. Though he came on in the 8th with a man on and a 2-run lead and got that batter out, he allowed a single, and one out later, an RBI triple. He then allowed a single that tied the game, and after a walk, though he got a K for the 2nd out, he allowed a walk-off single that ended the game at 7-6. A Cora 2-run homer put the Sox up 3-0 in the 2nd, though Arroyo allowed two singles and a double in the 2nd to make it 3-2. The Tigers tied it in the 3rd, but Cora's RBI sac-grounder with the bases loaded and one out in the 4th put the Sox back ahead. Then in the 5th, the Sox led the inning with a Damon walk, Renteria single, and an RBI double from Ortiz. A reliever came in, and Renteria decided to try to score from third on a Manny grounder to the third-baseman, and was thrown out easily at home. Varitek then singled to load the bases, still with one out, but Petagine grounded into a double play. On the other hand, Arroyo got out of a bases-loaded with one out jam in the very next inning, preserving the 5-3 lead. Speaking of jams, it seemed like Arroyo was doing that all night. He even gave a one-out triple in the first but the runner did not score. Anyway, Ortiz' solo homer in the 7th put the Sox up three, but Bradford gave up a run in the 8th before Schilling came on. Cora went 1/4 with 3 RBIs and 1 R, but Papi barely eschews him for POG by going 2/5 with the final two RBIs for the Sox of the night. Arroyo gave up 10 hits in 6 innings, with just 2 Ks, but allowing just 3 runs. The Sox have not won on the birthday of Ben Affleck, one of the most famous Red Sox fans, since his movie Good Will Hunting was released: The Sox have lost on August 15 for the last 8 years in a row.

The Sox blew the save on Monday night, but the Tigers blew it last night. Papi came through with a solo homer in the top of the ninth to tie it at 3. The Sox made sure that they weren't going to blow it again, by scoring 7 times in the top of the 10th, highlighted by Ortiz' second homer in as many innings, this one a three-run shot that put the Sox up 8-3. Varitek hit in the first two and the last two runs of the games, both on homers: it marked the first time he has hit home runs from both sides of the plate in his career (and the newly appointed captain recently hit his first career grand slam). Millar caused both the first and the third outs in the 10th. With Wade Miller on the DL, Jon "Noble" Papelbon started the game and gave up just two runs in 5 innings. He allowed the lead runner on in 4 of the innings, but otherwise pitched rather well. Jeremi Gonzalez pitched two perfect innings, and Timlin actually let one of his own runners score, which put the Sox down 3-2. Though both Varitek and Ortiz went 2/5 with 4 RBIs on 2 HRs each, Papi gets POG because his RBIs were more critical.

Edited to add that Remlinger pitched the 10th: he allowed a grand slam, yet still lowered his ERA with the Sox from infinity to 54.00.

[RedSoxFan]

But alas, he’s the best hitter in the AL and I’d want the best hitter up there. Regardless of past performance (we all know about the small sample size, and it’s not like his pressure performance is that bad anyway), I think A-Rod’s bat would be most likely to deliver.

Are you one of those closer by committee guys who thinks the outs in a save situation are no different than the outs in earlier innings?

[r. mutt]

But alas, he’s the best hitter in the AL and I’d want the best hitter up there. Regardless of past performance (we all know about the small sample size, and it’s not like his pressure performance is that bad anyway), I think A-Rod’s bat would be most likely to deliver.

That was hysterical, thanks for the big laugh today. How about looking at some actual statistics?

With Runners in Scoring Position(RISP)
Manny (who's having a bad year): .371 BA, .847 SLG (!)
Big Papi: .379 BA, .647 SLG
A-Rod: .261 BA, .373 SLG :lol:

Manny's still the best hitter in baseball, even in a bad year. But I'd take Ortiz at the plate over A-Rod any day.

[Drzy]

Are you one of those closer by committee guys who thinks the outs in a save situation are no different than the outs in earlier innings?Well... yes and no. I believe the outs in a save situation have little to no difference than outs earlier in the game (whether the other team scores their 3 runs in the 3rd inning or 9th innings, the final score is still 6 to 5), but a closer is needed for the psychological aspect. If a team doesn’t have confidence in who’s pitching their final inning, it can not only drag their performance down, but more importantly it can give a mental boost to the opposing batters. If you mean am I too much of a numbers guy, no, I don’t ignore the mental aspects -- I quantify that in the numbers too. :wink:

(slightly off-topic) That being said, it seems almost any pitcher can drastically elevate his game by becoming a 1-inning specialist. Smoltz, Gagne, Hermanson, Nathan, and Isringhausen were all former starters who became radically better after making the switch, and I’m sure there are plenty more. Schilling is an obvious exception because he’s coming back from injury.

[Triangle Man]

With Runners in Scoring Position(RISP)
Manny (who's having a bad year): .371 BA, .847 SLG (!)
Big Papi: .379 BA, .647 SLG
A-Rod: .261 BA, .373 SLG :lol:Not to nitpick, but SLG w/RISP isn't particularly relevant. That's the one spot where I care more about BA. Any kind of hit will usually score the runner.

[Drzy]

That was hysterical, thanks for the big laugh today. How about looking at some actual statistics?You left out the number of plate appearances in your stats. That’s extremely important.

Manny's still the best hitter in baseball, even in a bad year.I’m assuming this was said in a rush and it’s not truly believed?

Anyway, sorry about posting A-Rod’s the best hitter in the Sox thread. Probably not my smartest idea. :)

[Big98]

Not to nitpick, but SLG w/RISP isn't particularly relevant. That's the one spot where I care more about BA. Any kind of hit will usually score the runner.

But an extra-base hit in that situation is more likely to lead to an additional run. Got to love those big innings! :-D

[Triangle Man]

But an extra-base hit in that situation is more likely to lead to an additional run. Got to love those big innings! :-DAn extra base hit in any situation is more likely to lead to a run. That's why SLG is better than BA. But if you're looking at performance w/RISP, we're asking a different question. How good are you at getting that runner home? That's where BA is more important.

Or, to explain it a different way, a batter who gets a double and makes an out has the same SLG as a batter who hits two singles. But if both PA were with RISP, I'd rather have the guy who hit two singles.

[Triangle Man]

You left out the number of plate appearances in your stats. That’s extremely important.Are you suggesting A-Rod hasn't had lots of PA w/RISP? Batting in that lineup? I find that very hard to believe.

Anyway, sorry about posting A-Rod’s the best hitter in the Sox thread. Probably not my smartest idea. :)A-Rod's the best player in the AL. Or, he would be if he were playing his natural position. But not the best hitter.

[Drzy]

Are you suggesting A-Rod hasn't had lots of PA w/RISP? Batting in that lineup? I find that very hard to believe.I think it might be the case, especially if those are just the numbers for one year. One year isn’t nearly enough to determine how a player bats with RISP. Renteria is a good example of that.

A-Rod's the best player in the AL. Or, he would be if he were playing his natural position. But not the best hitter.I’m curious who you think is. The only four I can see arguments for are A-Rod, Manny, Ortiz, and Vladimir. Some might want to throw Sheffield in that mix but they’d be very wrong.

Manny and Ortiz are tough to judge even against just each other. Manny’s had the better career and last few seasons, but Ortiz is doing slightly better this year. Vlad has been usual consistent self and quietly put together another monster season. A-Rod’s having the best year this year like he often does, but his poor showing last season might turn some off to him. Really, it’s quite the logjam. I guess the only incorrect answer would be if we said the best hitter was clear cut.

[Triangle Man]

It's close, perhaps, but I think the order clearly goes:

Manny
Vlad
A-Rod

I can't put Ortiz there yet until he keeps this up for a few more seasons.

Now, if you list those three in order of their defensive value, it becomes

A-Rod
Vlad
Manny

even though I think Manny's defense isn't as bad as people think it is. If I could only have one AL player to build my team around, I'd probably pick Vlad, most people would probably pick A-Rod, but the top three are very close.

[Jables]

Reminder:

1:00 PM game time today!

Game on!

[Jables]

Anyone able to follow it online? It seems messed up everywhere I try (Yahoo, MLB, ESPN)...

[Patience]

I'm frozen w/ 2 on and no out bottom of first

[Triangle Man]

Looks like the top of the second, no score, but the Sox have 1st and 2nd with no outs. It's working fine for me. I'm looking at Yahoo!

[Jables]

Ugh, methinks the MLB site is right now... unfortunately 5-0, Detroit...

[Patience]

I'm frozen w/ 2 on and no out bottom of first

now no one scored & 2 on and no out top of second

[Triangle Man]

Ugh, methinks the MLB site is right now... unfortunately 5-0, Detroit...I like Yahoo!'s version better, Sox up 1-0.

[Jables]

I like Yahoo!'s version better, Sox up 1-0.

I'd prefer that too...but MLB Gameday's got the real deal...

[Jables]

Is there a good reason for Millar to be playing instead of Manny today?

[Patience]

ESPN has Detroit batting around in the first inning w/o scoring.

I think this is broke

[Ray Finkle]

Is there a good reason for Millar to be playing instead of Manny today?

Millar is more fun. Plus they can stick Olerud in there at clean-up. That's imposing.

5-1 now. Comeback time.

[Jables]

Millar is more fun. Plus they can stick Olerud in there at clean-up. That's imposing.

5-1 now. Comeback time.

I will gladly accept being proven wrong. :D

[Patience]

now its fixed.. ouch

[Jables]

Millar is more fun. Plus they can stick Olerud in there at clean-up. That's imposing.

5-1 now. Comeback time.

So far, so good... 2-2, scored one run and drove in the other. :)

[Jables]

1-2-3 go the Tigers in the 3rd, still leading the Sox 5-2...

Millar, Mueller, Graffanino due up...

[Jables]

Graffanino got a 2-out single, but Kapler flew out to end the inning... back to Wells!

[Jables]

Another scoreless inning... Damon, Renteria, Ortiz and Olerud up...

[Jables]

Leadoff double for Johnny! :clap:

[Jables]

Renteria groundout moves Johnny to 3rd...

[Jables]

Ortiz draws the walk... send 'em home Olerud!

[Jables]

Ortiz draws the walk... send 'em home Olerud!

Double play. :swear:

[Ray Finkle]

:barf:

[Jables]

Solo homer for Chris Shelton, down 6-2 now...

[Ray Finkle]

:puke:

[Jables]

Couple more singles in the inning, still nobody out...

I've seen enough of Wells today. And while we're at it, swap Manny in for Millar! :evil:

[Jables]

Jeremi Gonzalez gets a fly out and a GIDP to escape from the inning with no further damage...

Varitek, Millar, Mueller, and Graffanino due up to try and close the gap

[Jables]

Leadoff walk for Varitek...

[MountainHawk]

Leadoff walk for Varitek...

Good thing the wind isn't coming from the south, or I could smell the GIDP coming from Millar from here.

[Jables]

Millar strikes out :roll:

Mueller singles, Varitek to 2nd...

[Jables]

Ack, *another* double play!! :swear:

[Ray Finkle]

:retch:

[Jables]

You gonna be ok there, Ray?

[Jables]

2 fly outs and a pop out, with a single mixed in between...

Kapler, Damon, Renteria, and Ortiz due

[Jables]

Kapler grounds out quickly, Damon walks...