Boston Red Sox - 2005 Season

[Jables]

No GIDP, no GDIP, no GIDP... (crosses fingers)

[Jables]

Renteria hits his 2nd double of the game... Damon stopped at 3rd.

Big Papi could close this up quickly!

[MountainHawk]

LIDP :)

[Jables]

Pitching change! Let's not forget how that decision worked out for Detroit last night! :)

[Ray Finkle]

You gonna be ok there, Ray?

I'll be ok if Papi comes through . .

[Jables]

I'll be ok if Papi comes through . .

He's ok!

2 run single!

[Ray Finkle]

Papi!!! :clap:

[Jables]

Check out Ortiz creeping up on Manny in the RBI category (home runs too)

[Jables]

Olerud flies out... another pitching change. Does Varitek have another home run in him?

[Ray Finkle]

He's got a lot of foul balls in him . . .

[Jables]

Does Varitek have another foul ball in him?

IFMQ.

[Jables]

He's got a lot of foul balls in him . . .

:lol:

GMTA

[Jables]

Damn, ground out... oh well, 2 runs is better than nothing. Still 2 more innings to try and close it up...

[Ray Finkle]

All that for ground out :shake:

[Ray Finkle]

Remlinger in . . . I feel a :exams: coming up

[Jables]

Remlinger? Why not just forfeit?

[Ray Finkle]

Remlinger? Why not just forfeit?

:lol:

[Jables]

1-2-3 inning.

Shows what I know. :D

[Ray Finkle]

1-2-3 inning.


The oddsmakers took a beating on that one

[Jables]

And Millar gets a hit when it matters... again, what do I know?

Leadoff single! :clap:

[Jables]

No GIDP, no GDIP, no GIDP... (crosses fingers)

again

[Jables]

Mueller pops out to SS

No GIDP, no GDIP, no GIDP... (crosses fingers)

Still in effect...

[Jables]

No! GIDP! :swear:

:furious:

[Jables]

2 more outs (with only a single in between) from Remlinger... inconceivable!

Chad Bradford takes the mound

[Jables]

McDonald pops out to end the 8th...

It'll be up to Kapler, Damon, Renteria, and Ortiz!

[Ray Finkle]

Foul out . . . Top 9

Last chance. Will we see Manny PH? Maybe for Renteria?

[Jables]

In comes the guy who gave up the solo homer to Ortiz yesterday :)

[Ray Finkle]

Double for Kapler :clap:

[Jables]

Double for Kapler :clap:

Woo-hoo!

[Jables]

Damon grounds out, Kapler to 3rd

[Jables]

Renteria singles... 6-5!

[Ray Finkle]

Renteria singles!! 6-5!

[Ray Finkle]

Dang. Beat me to it.

[Jables]

No GIDP, no GDIP, no GIDP... (crosses fingers)

Please, please, please...

[Jables]

:swear: :furious: :swear: :furious: :swear: :furious: :swear: :furious: :swear:

[Ray Finkle]

No GIDP, no GDIP, no GIDP... (crosses fingers)

Damnit!!! Don't ever do this again!!

[Jables]

The Ortiz giveth, and the Ortiz taketh away...

[yankeetripper]

6th GIDP of the game! :smile:

[Jables]

6th GIDP of the game! :smile:

Ugh, ain't gonna get wins that way. Lucky it ended as close as it did.

post count = post count + many

[r. mutt]

I think it might be the case, especially if those are just the numbers for one year. One year isn’t nearly enough to determine how a player bats with RISP. Renteria is a good example of that.


Well, how about Manny with 95 AB/RISP this year, Ortiz with 99, and A-Rod with 100? Not enough? Well what about 2004 then?

Manny 156/.340/.654
Ortiz 160/.350/.594
A-Rod 157/.248/.439

I think that's enough of a statistical difference, don't you? If the difference were 20 points you might have a case.

[Drzy]

I'm afraid you're incorrect. :(

For example, here are each of their month by month statistics this season:


ABs Avg Slg

Manny Ramirez

April 84 .274 .607
May 94 .234 .404
June 94 .319 .638
July 81 .272 .654
August 41 .390 .780


David Ortiz

April 90 .256 .556
May 106 .330 .566
June 100 .320 .610
July 94 .277 .532
August 48 .354 .833


Alex Rodriguez

April 102 .304 .616
May 86 .349 .686
June 104 .337 .481
July 96 .281 .552
August 57 .316 .772

As you can see, the statistics fluctuate wildly in that number of at bats. We simply don't have enough data to say A-Rod is inherently prone to perform either poorly or well in pressure situations.

By the way, these math/baseball lessons are free of charge (ohh, burn!). :wink:

[Wannabe Actuary]

Leadoff walk for Varitek...ugh hmm

where was the wokka wokka.....

[r. mutt]

I'm afraid you're incorrect. :(

For example, here are each of their month by month statistics this season:


ABs Avg Slg

Manny Ramirez

April 84 .274 .607
May 94 .234 .404
June 94 .319 .638
July 81 .272 .654
August 41 .390 .780


David Ortiz

April 90 .256 .556
May 106 .330 .566
June 100 .320 .610
July 94 .277 .532
August 48 .354 .833


Alex Rodriguez

April 102 .304 .616
May 86 .349 .686
June 104 .337 .481
July 96 .281 .552
August 57 .316 .772

As you can see, the statistics fluctuate wildly in that number of at bats. We simply don't have enough data to say A-Rod is inherently prone to perform either poorly or well in pressure situations.

By the way, these math/baseball lessons are free of charge (ohh, burn!). :wink:


1. (3 points) Calculate the standard deviations for these (after dropping off the incomplete month) and comparing to the RISP stats I posted earlier. Assume the std dev is slighly lower than you calculate since last year had about 150 ABs. Then tell me again that the difference isn't statistically meaningful. :shake:

[yankeetripper]

I think you need to look at career numbers in this case. Ortiz has had a nice 2 1/2 seasons but does not belong in the dicussion w/ A-Rod & Manny.

I would have thought A-Rod had better stats than Manny but checking out there career numbers Manny is 10 to 25 points higher in BA/OBP/SLG over A-Rod. and HRS are about the same. Both have sick slugging percentages .574 for A-Rod .599 for Manny 11th and 7th all-time.

Given this I'd say Manny comes in at #1 for purely offensive numbers.

If you were a GM starting a team and had to chose between A-Rod & Manny (not looking at salary and assuming no Yankee or Red Sox bias) who would you chose? I'd take A-Rod & put him at short personally, because while Manny will produce a bit more offence, I think his stone hands will offset some of that production.

[Triangle Man]

I think you need to look at career numbers in this case. Ortiz has had a nice 2 1/2 seasons but does not belong in the dicussion w/ A-Rod & Manny.

I would have thought A-Rod had better stats than Manny but checking out there career numbers Manny is 10 to 25 points higher in BA/OBP/SLG over A-Rod. and HRS are about the same. Both have sick slugging percentages .574 for A-Rod .599 for Manny 11th and 7th all-time.

Given this I'd say Manny comes in at #1 for purely offensive numbers.

If you were a GM starting a team and had to chose between A-Rod & Manny (not looking at salary and assuming no Yankee or Red Sox bias) who would you chose? I'd take A-Rod & put him at short personally, because while Manny will produce a bit more offence, I think his stone hands will offset some of that production.Holy moly. Even though you're a damn Yankee fan, I find myself agreeing with you an awful lot. Cut it out so I can go back to my irrational biased hatred of all Yankee fans.

[r. mutt]

I think you need to look at career numbers in this case. Ortiz has had a nice 2 1/2 seasons but does not belong in the dicussion w/ A-Rod & Manny.

It's hard to know what to make of Ortiz's dome experience, but lifetime I agree. He's just a dude on a very serious streak right now.


I would have thought A-Rod had better stats than Manny but checking out there career numbers Manny is 10 to 25 points higher in BA/OBP/SLG over A-Rod. and HRS are about the same. Both have sick slugging percentages .574 for A-Rod .599 for Manny 11th and 7th all-time.

Given this I'd say Manny comes in at #1 for purely offensive numbers.

I still maintain that Manny is the best pure hitter in baseball. And what's bizarre is A-Rod's low hitting with RISP...it would be interesting to look at that over more years.


If you were a GM starting a team and had to chose between A-Rod & Manny (not looking at salary and assuming no Yankee or Red Sox bias) who would you chose? I'd take A-Rod & put him at short personally, because while Manny will produce a bit more offence, I think his stone hands will offset some of that production.

Manny was actually leading the league in outfield assists this year (and don't forget that HR he took from Cairo a while back), but I agree he's an entertaining show in left field. If I were starting a team this year I'd probably take A-Rod at SS, assuming he's still as awesome as he used to be...the glove just adds too much value. I do think it's a closer call than you seem to, but A-Rod's also younger by 3 years and that adds some value.

[r. mutt]

Gobless Alan Embree.

[Jables]

Still 4.5...

:D

[Jables]

Not to look forward too much, but if the Royals keep losing, the Red Sox would have a chance to give them their record-breaking 22nd straight loss.

One would think that KC just passed their best chance at a win, getting swept by Seattle... now onto 3 games in Oakland before the Sox visit. It could happen!

[Triangle Man]

One would think that KC just passed their best chance at a win, getting swept by Seattle... now onto 3 games in Oakland before the Sox visit. It could happen!Also, 21 games is the current AL record, but 23 games is the ML record, so the Sox could help the Royals set both records.

[yankeetripper]

Manny was actually leading the league in outfield assists this year (and don't forget that HR he took from Cairo a while back), but I agree he's an entertaining show in left field. If I were starting a team this year I'd probably take A-Rod at SS, assuming he's still as awesome as he used to be...the glove just adds too much value. I do think it's a closer call than you seem to, but A-Rod's also younger by 3 years and that adds some value.

Manny is leading the league in assits for 2 reasons:

1. He isn't very good so people will always test his arm giving him more chances.

2. Left field in Fenway is by far the shallowest left field any MLB park so his throws on average are much shorter.

Can you name a worse defensive outfielder than Manny? I mean yes he will occasionally come up with a brilliant play but most of the time, its a misjudged fly ball, lack of concentartion where an easy fly ball clanks off his glove or that classic "cut off" of Damon's throw from center.

Yes I was factoring in the fact that A-Rod is 3 years younger than Manny and that he was a gold glove caliber SS. I think offensively they are close w/ Manny in lead right now but defensively there is no argument about who is better.

[r. mutt]

I think offensively they are close w/ Manny in lead right now but defensively there is no argument about who is better.

There is absolutely nothing statistical to suggest they are "close" offensively.

[Drzy]

There is absolutely nothing statistical to suggest they are "close" offensively.I'm not sure I follow. Their batting average, home runs, slugging, and OPS are close to the same each year, and I'd assume some other categories that I haven't looked up are too.

[r. mutt]

I'm not sure I follow. Their batting average, home runs, slugging, and OPS are close to the same each year, and I'd assume some other categories that I haven't looked up are too.

I still put a lot of weight on RBIs and hitting with RISP. It's runs that counts, not good averages.

[yankeetripper]

There is absolutely nothing statistical to suggest they are "close" offensively.

A-Rod http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3115
Manny http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2974

Manny is 3 years older and look at the career stats, how do say they are not "close" offensively?

[yankeetripper]

I still put a lot of weight on RBIs and hitting with RISP. It's runs that counts, not good averages.

If you look at runs scored + RBIs per 162 games A-Rod is 251 & Manny is 249. If its runs that count, you need to look at both runs scored + RBIs, remember A-Rod batted 2 for a number of his early years in Seatle, not a big RBI spot most of the time.

Also A-rods only about 200 SB ahead of Manny with only 20 more CS.

[r. mutt]

Over the last 3.5 years, Manny has come to the plate 539 times with RISP, A-Rod with 594. If you normalize Manny to 594 you get this comparison (sorry if the formatting is off):


Player AB/RISP RBI BB HR BA SLG
Manny 594 339 171 51 0.366 0.707
A-Rod 594 271 110 39 0.288 0.538


The thing that surprised me the most wasn't the RBIs - I knew Manny was a monster - but the walks. Manny's certainly not up there hacking.

I won't compare the post-season numbers, because I'm pretty sure they'll show something similar or better for Manny.

A-Rod brings a lot to the field, but at the plate it's Manny I want.

[r. mutt]

...remember A-Rod batted 2 for a number of his early years in Seatle, not a big RBI spot most of the time.


I'm not looking at Seattle, but this is why I'm looking at RISP anyway...certainly not an issue in NY.

[r. mutt]

If its runs that count, you need to look at both runs scored + RBIs

No you don't. Runs scored is heavily dependent on who hits behind you.

[Jables]

Hey double play! Why, I have seen one of those since... well, since the 5 the Sox made yesterday... :shake:

[Jables]

:exams:

On a lighter note, Which Red Sox player are you? (http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=4637)


You scored as David Ortiz.

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107161398sox_080403.jpg

You are David Ortiz!! You have a very sunny personality and always seem to be smiling, which makes you very well-liked. You consider yourself a great cook, which is your fave pastime other than slugging homeruns. Big Papi is the man!

David Ortiz, 67%
Theo Epstein, 63%
Johnny Damon, 60%
Curt Schilling, 57%
Mark Bellhorn, 53%
Kevin Millar, 53%
Jason Varitek, 50%
Manny Ramirez, 44%

[Wannabe Actuary]

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107160874theo_bos_epstein_h_112502.jpg

You scored as Theo Epstein.

Wait a minute, you're not a Red Sox player... you're Theo Epstein! Extremely smart and successful, you work (http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin/results.php?q=work&id=4)the magic from behind the scenes. You take a lot of risks, but it always works out. You're not too bad on the eyes either!!

Theo Epstein 73%
Kevin Millar 63%
Johnny Damon 63%
Curt Schilling 63%
Mark Bellhorn 57%
David Ortiz 57%
Jason Varitek 57%
Manny Ramirez 47%

[r. mutt]

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107203812image005.jpg


You scored as Jason Varitek.

You are Jason Varitek. You are a natural leader and are highly respected by many. You are tough and will duke it out with any purple-lipped princess when it comes to defending your buddies, which makes you a very loyal friend. Oh Captain, my captain!

Jason Varitek 70%
Curt Schilling 70%
Johnny Damon 67%
Theo Epstein 57%
David Ortiz 53%
Kevin Millar 50%
Manny Ramirez 50%
Mark Bellhorn 37%

[Drzy]

http://chrisautographzone.tripod.com/Sveum_1.jpg

You scored as Dale Sveum.

Not exactly the brightest bulb in the bunch, you are what doctors call “slightly retarded.” You have a penchant for waving opposing traffic through, oblivious to the oncoming semi that will lead to unfortunate demise. You have trouble reading large words and tying your shoes.

Dale Sveum 100%
Jason Varitek 0%
Curt Schilling 0%
Johnny Damon 0%
Theo Epstein 0%
David Ortiz 0%
Kevin Millar 0%
Manny Ramirez 0%
Mark Bellhorn 0%

[Ray Finkle]

You scored as Curt Schilling.

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107161330445118_Curt-Schilling-Two.jpg

You are Curt Schilling! You are a trooper. You push yourself to the limit, regardless of any setbacks. You are also not afraid to express your opinions on a variety of topics. Very family-oriented. You're the man!!

Curt Schilling 73%
Mark Bellhorn 53%
Johnny Damon 50%
Theo Epstein 43%
David Ortiz 37%
Manny Ramirez 37%
Jason Varitek 37%
Kevin Millar 27%

[Triangle Man]

You scored as Mike Remlinger.

You are Mike Remlinger! You suck. No, I take that back, you go beyond suck to a new level previously thought impossible. No matter how good the situation, you find some way to turn it into a bad one. No matter how bad the situation, you find a way to make it even worse. Even your own mother is ashamed of you. The world would be better off without you. Please kill yourself. Please. Thank you.Wow. That was pretty harsh. I think I should go back and take the test again. Maybe if I change some of my answers I could get something better, like Calvin Schiraldi or Darren Lewis.

[Hagbard Celine]

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107204071bellhorn5.jpg

You scored as Mark Bellhorn.



You are Mark Bellhorn! You are extremely quiet, which makes you mysterious. You don't express your emotions a lot or smile, but when you do it can brighten up a person's day! You are also very humble and nice and don't let your talents, as well as looks, go to your head. Ring my Bellhorn!

Mark Bellhorn 70%
Jason Varitek 60%
Theo Epstein 60%
Johnny Damon 57%
Curt Schilling 53%
David Ortiz 33%
Kevin Millar 27%
Manny Ramirez 27%

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Over the last 3.5 years, Manny has come to the plate 539 times with RISP, A-Rod with 594. If you normalize Manny to 594 you get this comparison (sorry if the formatting is off):


Player AB/RISP RBI BB HR BA SLG
Manny 594 339 171 51 0.366 0.707
A-Rod 594 271 110 39 0.288 0.538


The thing that surprised me the most wasn't the RBIs - I knew Manny was a monster - but the walks. Manny's certainly not up there hacking.

I won't compare the post-season numbers, because I'm pretty sure they'll show something similar or better for Manny.

A-Rod brings a lot to the field, but at the plate it's Manny I want.
First off, a Q: Are those AB's or Plate Appearances?

I think a more important stat than mere RBI (another teammate-dependent stat, similar to Runs Scored) will be

"RBI Productivity Ratio" = (Total RBI)/(RISP in ABs + Sacrifices).

Notes:
1. Total RBIs will include home runs and runners scoring from first. That's a bonus for the numerator, and should be considered valuable.
2. The stat uses At-Bats + Sacs, not Plate appearances, since walking is useful (better than flailing at bad pitches, Vlad excepting), and the batter usually loses a chance to get the RBI. Add sacs, since they usually result in an RBI, as a direct result of the batter's batting ability.
3. It requires having the NUMBER of runners in scoring position (on second and/or third base), not just plate appearances in which a runner or two are in scoring position. MLB.com doesn't have it. ESPN doesn't have it.

I would think a Run Productivity ratio of 1:1 would be considered excellent.

[r. mutt]

First off, a Q: Are those AB's or Plate Appearances?

I think a more important stat than mere RBI (another teammate-dependent stat, similar to Runs Scored) will be

"RBI Productivity Ratio" = (Total RBI)/(RISP in ABs + Sacrifices).

Notes:
1. Total RBIs will include home runs and runners scoring from first. That's a bonus for the numerator, and should be considered valuable.
2. The stat uses At-Bats + Sacs, not Plate appearances, since walking is useful (better than flailing at bad pitches, Vlad excepting), and the batter usually loses a chance to get the RBI. Add sacs, since they usually result in an RBI, as a direct result of the batter's batting ability.
3. It requires having the NUMBER of runners in scoring position (on second and/or third base), not just plate appearances in which a runner or two are in scoring position. MLB.com doesn't have it. ESPN doesn't have it.

I would think a Run Productivity ratio of 1:1 would be considered excellent.


They're ABs.

I like your suggestion, and in particular hadn't thought of the sacs.

I'd thought of #3, but I couldn't figure out how to get the # of runners in scoring position. I looked at ABs with RISP as a proportion of total ABs, thinking that might give an idea of the relative frequency of batters ahead of them getting on base, and the numbers were pretty close - something like .260 for ARod and .274 for Manny. It's not the same thing, but maybe a distant proxy.

I'll poke around and see what I can find, but the numbers for Manny & ARod are so far apart in the original statistic that I'm not sure it'll make a difference in the end perception.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I'll poke around and see what I can find, but the numbers for Manny & ARod are so far apart in the original statistic that I'm not sure it'll make a difference in the end perception.
No, it won't, not for them.
More interesting for, say Bonds vs Kent, in that year when Kent stole the MVP award.

[r. mutt]

No, it won't, not for them.
More interesting for, say Bonds vs Kent, in that year when Kent stole the MVP award.

Actually, I just figured out how to get the # of runners from either mlb or espn - the RISP stats break down into exactly where the runners are, so I can just segregate any situation with runners at 2nd and/or 3rd and count up the runners on those bases in each situation.

I haven't found sacs yet, but they have to be there somewhere.

[yankeetripper]

I haven't found sacs yet, but they have to be there somewhere.

Go to player splits on ESPN. But it won't make much difference. A-rod has 19 SF since 2002, Manny 18. For career its 60/65 but I can't remember who has more.

It seams a bit pointless though foucusing on one stat average w/ RISP. You could argure A-rod helps his team more by playing more games and getting more PA/year then manny or you could argue the other way that manny still helps his team despite taking more days off.

[yankeetripper]

No, it won't, not for them.
More interesting for, say Bonds vs Kent, in that year when Kent stole the MVP award.

Maybe Bond should have hit BALCO a few more times that year.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Maybe Bond should have hit BALCO a few more times that year.
Bonds had trouble hitting the WAY outside pitches when men were in scoring position, allowing Kent to get the "credit" for the RBIs.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Actually, I just figured out how to get the # of runners from either mlb or espn - the RISP stats break down into exactly where the runners are, so I can just segregate any situation with runners at 2nd and/or 3rd and count up the runners on those bases in each situation.

I still don't see RISP stats anywhere. Got a link to an example?

[r. mutt]

I still don't see RISP stats anywhere. Got a link to an example?

Rather than link directly, I'll tell you how to get there since there's other fun stuff along the way. ESPN does a better job compiling history, but there's some interesting stuff on the mlb sites I haven't found at espn yet. Nonetheless, let's go to espn first.

1. Go to http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/statistics.
2. You can search on players, but for convenience click on Manny from the top of the RBI section.
3. Click the tab that says Splits.
4. At the bottom click More Splits. 2005 RISP info will be at the bottom of the long page that results; you can get 2002-2004 compiled by clicking the appropriate tab at the top. The 124 AB with RISP is the sum of everything above it with men on 2nd and/or 3rd....

Here's something I haven't found at espn:
1. Go to www.redsox.com and click on Stats near the top. Click on M Ramirez.
2. Click on Splits. Check out the Hitting Chart, which is way cool...go there and look at Giambi and Ortiz and see why the shift is always on.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Ahh, "More Splits"!! Be right back...

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Player.....RBI Productivity
Manny....0.701 (108 RBI / (149 RISP + 5 SF)
A-Rod.....0.610 (97 RBI / (159 RISP + 2 SF)
.
.
.
D.Ortiz...0.728 (107 RBI / (141 RISP + 6 SF)

Maybe someone should peer review my work, but it appears that Manny gets to be Manny simply because he's had 7 more RISPs than has David Americo Ortiz.

Yeah, they're both good. There might be even "better" players with lower RBI totals, though. Guys stuck leading off or batting late in the order with fewer RBI chances. I think this could be an important measuring stick in deciding the batting order, especially if deciding whether some traditional RBI-achiever needs to slip down a notch.

I'll probably have to come up with a more reasonable standard than my 1.000 declaration a few posts back.

In the NL:
D.Lee.....0.754 (89 RBI / (113 RISP + 5 SF)
A.Jones..0.553 (94 RBI / (164 RISP + 6 SF)
A.Pujols..0.764 (94 RBI / (121 RISP + 2 SF)

This is what gets me: A Jones appears to be a sportswriter's candidate for MVP (RBI + playoff-bound), but he seems more like a choker compared with D.Lee and A.Pujols (according to ESPN.com, Pronounced: POO-holes). (hee-hee)

[r. mutt]

Player.....RBI Productivity
Manny....0.701 (108 RBI / (149 RISP + 5 SF)
A-Rod.....0.610 (97 RBI / (159 RISP + 2 SF)
.
.
.
D.Ortiz...0.728 (107 RBI / (141 RISP + 6 SF)

Maybe someone should peer review my work, but it appears that Manny gets to be Manny simply because he's had 7 more RISPs than has David Americo Ortiz.

Yeah, they're both good. There might be even "better" players with lower RBI totals, though. Guys stuck leading off or batting late in the order with fewer RBI chances. I think this could be an important measuring stick in deciding the batting order, especially if deciding whether some traditional RBI-achiever needs to slip down a notch.

I'll probably have to come up with a more reasonable standard than my 1.000 declaration a few posts back.

In the NL:
D.Lee.....0.754 (89 RBI / (113 RISP + 5 SF)
A.Jones..0.553 (94 RBI / (164 RISP + 6 SF)
A.Pujols..0.764 (94 RBI / (121 RISP + 2 SF)

This is what gets me: A Jones appears to be a sportswriter's candidate for MVP (RBI + playoff-bound), but he seems more like a choker compared with D.Lee and A.Pujols.

Good stuff, and the gap between MR and AR is still pretty big. For guys with fewer chances you get into credibility issues, though...it would be interesting to see that same statistic over the last 3.5 years for the same players.

Andruw's results wouldn't surprise my Braves-loving friend, either...he's contended for years that AJ is a solo HR artist.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Alright, got the 2000 Stats for Kent (MVP) and Bonds from MLB, which requires each of the eight situations to be looked up separately.

Player...RBI Productivity
Kent.....0.592 (125 RBI / (202 RISP + 9 SF)
Bonds...0.876 (106 RBI / (114 RISP + 7 SF)

And for those who think Sosa should be mentioned:
Sosa.....0.730 (138 RBI / (181 RISP + 8 SF)

[r. mutt]

Two sac bunts in one inning (tho' one ended up being a hit). Weird but good.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Good stuff, and the gap between MR and AR is still pretty big. For guys with fewer chances you get into credibility issues, though...it would be interesting to see that same statistic over the last 3.5 years for the same players.

Andruw's results wouldn't surprise my Braves-loving friend, either...he's contended for years that AJ is a solo HR artist.
I think Slugging percentage with RISP should yield a similar result, but my stat includes non-RISP RBI, because if you can get runners in even if they're not in scoring position, that's a good thing, too. (Andruw's solo homers are worth something, but if he could do it with runners on, that would be better.)

Years 2002-2004 combined:

Player....RBI-P (excluding SF)
Manny...0.738
A-Rod....0.709
Ortiz......0.627

[r. mutt]

Two sac bunts in one inning (tho' one ended up being a hit). Weird but good.

Another bunt down the 3B line for a hit. I guess they saw something in the way Figgin was playing behind the bag.

[RedSoxFan]

You scored as Curt Schilling.

http://images.quizfarm.com/1107161330445118_Curt-Schilling-Two.jpg

You are Curt Schilling! You are a trooper. You push yourself to the limit, regardless of any setbacks. You are also not afraid to express your opinions on a variety of topics. Very family-oriented. You're the man!!

Curt Schilling 73%
Mark Bellhorn 53%
Johnny Damon 50%
Theo Epstein 43%
David Ortiz 37%
Manny Ramirez 37%
Jason Varitek 37%
Kevin Millar 27%

I was a Curt also.

Curt Schilling 83%
Theo Epstein 67%
Jason Varitek 57%
Mark Bellhorn 50%
Johnny Damon 44%
Kevin Millar 33%
David Ortiz 24%
Manny Ramirez 23%

[RedSoxFan]

I was a Curt also.

Curt Schilling 83%
Theo Epstein 67%
Jason Varitek 57%
Mark Bellhorn 50%
Johnny Damon 44%
Kevin Millar 33%
David Ortiz 24%
Manny Ramirez 23%

Wow, out of everyone who posted, I had the highest high (83%) and the lowest low (23%).

[RedSoxFan]

On Wednesday the Sox lost another to the Tigers. Despite grounding into five double plays, and Wells allowing 4 runs on 6 hits before recording his first out, and then another run later in the first inning, the Sox only lost by one. Ortiz is normally the hero, but he was the goat in this game, as he came up to bat in the top of the ninth when Renteria on at first and one out, but he grounded into a double play. Renteria gets his first POG in a very long while for going 3/5 with 2 runs and 1 RBI, the RBI having closed the gap to 6-5 in the 9th. Wells ended up lasting 4 innings, giving up 6 total runs. The bullpen only gave up 2 hits the rest of the way, as Gonzalez went 2.0, Remlinger 1.2, and Bradford got the last out in the 8th.

Thursday night the Sox lost for the third time in four games. Wakey allowed just a solo homer in the first four innings, but in the bottom of the fifth with one out, he allowed a walk, the runner scoring on a subsequent single. After a single, an intentional walk, and another single, a sharp grounder hit Wakefield in the ankle, and he had to leave the game. Myers came in, and immediately allowed a 3 run homer that put the Sox down 7-0. Myers allowed another run in the next inning, and Remlinger gave up 5 runs in the last two innings, and the final score was 13-4. Mueller went 2/4 with 1 RBI and 2 R, including a solo HR in the 9th, but POG goes to Kapler, who got a 2-out 2-RBI single in the 7th that cut the lead to 8-3.

Friday night Timlin blew a 3-1 lead in the 8th. Paying no attention to the runners, he allowed a double steal with 2 outs, then both runners scored on a Benji Molina single. In the top of the 9th, Manny singled, and after Varitek grounded into a fielder's choice, Olerud singled. Mueller struck out, however, and Cora grounded out. But the Sox did come through the next inning, opening it with singles from Kapler and Damon. Renteria then struck out. It would have been Papi's spot to hit, but he was ejected after his last at-bat for arguing balls and strikes. Petagine came through with a crucial walk that put Kapler on third, and Manny hit a sac-grounder that scored the winning run. Schilling earned POG for pitching two perfect innings and picking up the W. It was later announced Schilling would start on Thursday against the Royals. The game would also have importance as the Royals could break the major league record for consecutive losses in that game. Anyway, the Sox took their 3-0 lead on an Olerud double in the 5th. They almost scored more in the 6th, when Damon led off with a single, then stole second: replays showed that he was actually out both times. The Sox couldn't convert the run, however. Clement deserved the W, going 7 innings and giving up just 1 run on 6 hits and 1 walk, striking out 5. The Sox offense got 14 hits and drew 6 walks but scored just 4 runs: they stranded 9 runners on base in scoring position. Damon went 4/6, raising his average to .335, still leading the AL. Olerud went 3/5, Manny went 2/4 with 2 walks, and Mueller went 2/5. In the bottom of the fifth with two out and men at the corners, Cora made an amazing catch of a blooper diving towards the first base foul line in short right field.

[Triangle Man]

Nice to escape Anaheim with a split. Papelbon looked impressive again. It's going to be nice watching a few young pitchers work their way into the rotation instead of being traded away. (Not that I'm criticizing any trades. The Sox have done well in that department as well.)

[Drzy]

Saw Ortiz's bunt single against the shift, that was awesome. :) Edmonds likes to do that a lot, but for some strange reason that I could never put my finger on I enjoyed seeing Papi do it more.

[Jables]

Agreed that I'll take the split given how we've played... can't be off guard for a hot KC team :)

Papelbon steals away my "No Decision" nickname from Wade Miller...

[PK]

Saw Ortiz's bunt single against the shift, that was awesome. :) How may times does he have to do it before the shift goes away?

[Drzy]

How may times does he have to do it before the shift goes away?My guess is they'll keep on shifting him. I've seen Edmonds attempt it four times this year (he screwed it up once) and many times in prior years (you might remember it's how he got his one hit in the World Series), but some teams (not many) still choose to shift him anyways. Unless Ortiz becomes extremely proficient (do I use parentheses too much?) at it, the shift will just keep comin'.

Since Papi's a lefty, maybe he can start doing some drag bunts a la Ichiro. :)

[PK]

My guess is they'll keep on shifting him. I've seen Edmonds attempt it four times this year (he screwed it up once) and many times in prior years (you might remember it's how he got his one hit in the World Series), but some teams (not many) still choose to shift him anyways. Unless Ortiz becomes extremely proficient (do I use parentheses too much?) at it, the shift will just keep comin'.

Since Papi's a lefty, maybe he can start doing some drag bunts a la Ichiro. :)I suspect it's harder, but I'd rather see him learn to punch it down the third base line into left field. He's slow enough that I expect that some third baseman will still throw him out on the bunt.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I see Schilling is doing another minor league start this week.

[RedSoxFan]

The Sox recovered on Sunday with a win to tie the series with the Angels. Byrd retired 15 Sox in a row at one point but the seams burst open in the 8th. Mueller and Graffanino both singled, but Kapler muffed a sac-bunt. Damon then hit a grounder, but POG Renteria came through with his second hit of the game, a 3-run homer, that put the Sox up 3-0. Ortiz then laid a bunt down the third base line to counter the shift, and after Donnelly replaced Byrd, Manny hit a 2-run shot for extra insurance runs. Timlin worked two scoreless innings, and Schilling worked the 9th in what appears to be his last relief appearance: he gave up two singles to lead off, and after getting a pop out, allowed an RBI double. He recovered to get the last two batters out. According to ESPN.com, Schilling was 4-3 with with 9 saves in 11 chances and a 5.18 ERA in 21 relief appearances. Papelbon allowed 5 hits in 5.2 IP, and no runs. He threw exactly 100 pitches and now sports a 2.25 ERA. The Sox have only scored 4 runs while he's been on the mound, but we've won all three games. Early in the game Manny made a catch at the wall in left, then awkwardly bounced off the wall onto the ground.

Edited to add that Varitek threw two runners out attempting to steal early in the game.

[r. mutt]

I see Schilling is doing another minor league start this week.

Exactly the way to bring him back too.

[r. mutt]

You could argure A-rod helps his team more by playing more games and getting more PA/year then manny...

I could certainly argue the extent to which he's helping them, period. What a freaking waste to have him playing 3rd.

[yankeetripper]

I could certainly argue the extent to which he's helping them, period. What a freaking waste to have him playing 3rd.

Yeah I guess a lot of 3rd baseman are hiting .317 w/ 36 HRS (and their SS isn't have that bad a year either last time I checked).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=avg&minpa=0&split=0&season=2005&pos=3b&hand=a&league=al&ageMin=17&ageMax=51

A-Rod leads every MLB 3rd baseman in every meaningful offensive category except doubles & triples a real waste.

[r. mutt]

Yeah I guess a lot of 3rd baseman are hiting .317 w/ 36 HRS (and their SS isn't have that bad a year either last time I checked).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=avg&minpa=0&split=0&season=2005&pos=3b&hand=a&league=al&ageMin=17&ageMax=51

A-Rod leads every MLB 3rd baseman in every meaningful offensive category except doubles & triples a real waste.

Um...I was talking about a waste of his defensive skills there. I'm sure with a little thought you would have figured that out.

[yankeetripper]

Um...I was talking about a waste of his defensive skills there. I'm sure with a little thought you would have figured that out.

I'm just giving you a hard time.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Just shows how versatile he is, versus "Mr Yankee with the lowest available number, so it can be retired among the greats."
And if a great 3B comes up in the organization, expect him to move to 2B.
(Gotta play him somewhere.)

[r. mutt]

Just shows how versatile he is, versus "Mr Yankee with the lowest available number, so it can be retired among the greats."
And if a great 3B comes up in the organization, expect him to move to 2B.
(Gotta play him somewhere.)

I had to laugh last year watching the replays of Jeter diving into the stands for that ball. Not because it wasn't an awesome play - it truly was - but because so much of the commentary revolved around what a great leader DJ was, always 'giving it up for the team'.

As long as it didn't involve giving up his position to a better fielder*, that is.

* and it isn't that Jeter is bad, it's just that a-rod is that good. When he played SS in Seattle and texas his range was astonishing. It was like watching a guy with 10-foot arms.

[r. mutt]

I'm just giving you a hard time.

That's a lot of typing for a little joke. :wink:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I had to laugh last year watching the replays of Jeter diving into the stands for that ball. Not because it wasn't an awesome play - it truly was - but because so much of the commentary revolved around what a great leader DJ was, always 'giving it up for the team'.

If he were just a little bit quicker, he wouldn't have to catch up to the ball and risk injury. Much like about 50% of all diving catches in the OF.

[GefilteFish144]

Yeah I guess a lot of 3rd baseman are hiting .317 w/ 36 HRS (and their SS isn't have that bad a year either last time I checked).

A-Rod leads every MLB 3rd baseman in every meaningful offensive category except doubles & triples a real waste.

And that diving stop in the 7th certainly proves that his defensive skills are not wasted on the hot corner.

[r. mutt]

And that diving stop in the 7th certainly proves that his defensive skills are not wasted on the hot corner.

On the contrary, it shows that his range is still big enough that he could be stopping quite a few more balls than Jeter (who again, fields okay, though he has a tendency to leap early on line drives).

[Guerilla poster]

Just a question, I am Sox fan but haven't followed so closely this year due to many time commitments. What the hell happened to Foulke? And why is Schilling relieving?

[Wannabe Actuary]

Just a question, I am Sox fan but haven't followed so closely this year due to many time commitments. What the hell happened to Foulke? And why is Schilling relieving?Knee surgery for Foulke...Schilling was relieving because the Sox needed bullpen help and he wasn't up to pitching 5-6 innings as a starter after he went out early in the season with ankle issues.

He's set to start on Thursday against KC if I recall correctly.

[Guerilla poster]

Knee surgery for Foulke...Schilling was relieving because the Sox needed bullpen help and he wasn't up to pitching 5-6 innings as a starter after he went out early in the season with ankle issues.

He's set to start on Thursday against KC if I recall correctly.


Thanks, will Foulke be back later in the year?

[Hagbard Celine]

Thanks, will Foulke be back later in the year?

He threw a simulated game the other day and got hit in the elbow by a Trot Nixon (also rehabilitating) line drive. :oops:

I don't think it was serious though, and he should be back soon.

[RedSoxFan]

Thanks, will Foulke be back later in the year?

He'll probably be back in 1-2 weeks.

It wasn't simply that he had knee surgery. He just wasn't pitching well. His knee was probably bothering him a little the whole time. They decided to give him some time off and also scoped the knee out to see if that would help.

You also might be surprised to learn that Embree was released because he wasn't being effective either, and Bellhorn wasn't playing well, and went on the DL, and now that he has healed, he still hasn't done well on the rehab assignment, and Graffanino has done really well in his place. So Bellhorn is also being designated for assignment. Papelbon is the minor leaguer who has pitched really well in three spot starts. Manny asked to be traded at the trade deadline, then later changed his mind, and got on a hot streak starting about 45 minutes after the trade deadline passed.

[RedSoxFan]

The other things you might have missed are the Orioles had a huge AL East lead early in the season then went the complete other direction, the Sox have had the AL East lead for something like 60 of the last 61 days. The Yankees are only 3.5 games back despite the fact that they were at .500 real late in the year and their starting pitching has been pretty bad overall. I think the Yankees are tied for first in the wild card.

Damon is leading the AL in batting average. Ortiz and Manny are both in the top 3 in RBI (not sure where they are exactly right now). They are also at the top in HRs, and all three are in the AL MVP race.

[Guerilla poster]

He'll probably be back in 1-2 weeks.

It wasn't simply that he had knee surgery. He just wasn't pitching well. His knee was probably bothering him a little the whole time. They decided to give him some time off and also scoped the knee out to see if that would help.

You also might be surprised to learn that Embree was released because he wasn't being effective either, and Bellhorn wasn't playing well, and went on the DL, and now that he has healed, he still hasn't done well on the rehab assignment, and Graffanino has done really well in his place. So Bellhorn is also being designated for assignment. Papelbon is the minor leaguer who has pitched really well in three spot starts. Manny asked to be traded at the trade deadline, then later changed his mind, and got on a hot streak starting about 45 minutes after the trade deadline passed.


Thanks, for the update, some of the stuff I knew, like about Manny. I was out of the country in June and part of July so other than getting score updates on the internet, I didn't follow the details very closely. I think that is how I missed the Foulke and Schilling news.

[RedSoxFan]

I realized I hadn't written a summary of Saturday's game. The Sox were shut down (2 baserunners in 7 innings) by the rookie pitcher Ervin Santana, until Millar and Mueller singled to lead off the 8th. After Graffanino and Petagine both flied out, Damon singled to load the bases, and when the reliever came in, Renteria singled in two runs to earn POG. Ortiz struck out though, and that became the final score, 4-2. The Angels scored two on a single in the 3rd that involved a Damon error, and added two in the 7th, one from a sac-fly, another off a Bradford wild pitch, in an inning that also saw DiNardo, Myers, and Remlinger pitch.

[Hagbard Celine]

I realized I hadn't written a summary of Saturday's game. The Sox were shut down (2 baserunners in 7 innings) by the rookie pitcher Ervin Santana, until Millar and Mueller singled to lead off the 8th. After Graffanino and Petagine both flied out, Damon singled to load the bases, and when the reliever came in, Renteria singled in two runs to earn POG. Ortiz struck out though, and that became the final score, 4-2. The Angels scored two on a single in the 3rd that involved a Damon error, and added two in the 7th, one from a sac-fly, another off a Bradford wild pitch, in an inning that also saw DiNardo, Myers, and Remlinger pitch.

2 Questions:

1. Do you watch every game?
2. Do you take notes while you watch?

[GefilteFish144]

On the contrary, it shows that his range is still big enough that he could be stopping quite a few more balls than Jeter (who again, fields okay, though he has a tendency to leap early on line drives).

So you're viewing quantity over quality. I would rather have A-Rod squelch a few potential doubles than a "few more" potential singles.

[Triangle Man]

So you're viewing quantity over quality. I would rather have A-Rod squelch a few potential doubles than a "few more" potential singles.But he'd also turn more potential singles into double plays.

[GefilteFish144]

But he'd also turn more potential singles into double plays.

That would be a major issue if Pettitte, Quantrill and Lieber were still pitching for them, but their current staff doesn't really have any significant ground ball pitchers.

[RedSoxFan]

2 Questions:

1. Do you watch every game?
2. Do you take notes while you watch?

I generally watch every game that is broadcast on the dish package. Generally, every game is broadcast except those that start during evil FOX's exclusive time slot on Saturday. In my area, even if the Red Sox are one of FOX's covered games, I usually get one of the other regional games.

I should take notes, because often times I'll see something I want to make note of, then forget later.

That being said, I am accepting applications to be the summary-writing apprentice. Please inquire by PM.

[r. mutt]

So you're viewing quantity over quality. I would rather have A-Rod squelch a few potential doubles than a "few more" potential singles.

I said quite a few more. And if you're seriously arguing that you're indifferent to A-Rod at 3B vs SS, then I'd suggest that you haven't watched A-Rod much over the years or else you're just arguing to argue.

[yankeetripper]

I said quite a few more. And if you're seriously arguing that you're indifferent to A-Rod at 3B vs SS, then I'd suggest that you haven't watched A-Rod much over the years or else you're just arguing to argue.

I agree A-Rod is more valuable as an SS, but to say he's wasted at 3B is just absurd. He's the best SS or best 3B in game no matter which position you play him. Don't forget a lot of great SS changed postions later in thier career, granted not usually in the prime of their career like A-Rod but Ernie Banks, Cal Ripkin and Robin Yount come to mind as some good examples.

[Triangle Man]

I agree A-Rod is more valuable as an SS, but to say he's wasted at 3B is just absurd. He's the best SS or best 3B in game no matter which position you play him. Don't forget a lot of great SS changed postions later in thier career, granted not usually in the prime of their career like A-Rod but Ernie Banks, Cal Ripkin and Robin Yount come to mind as some good examples.They moved because they had become defensive liabilities at SS, which is certainly not the case for ARod.

[yankeetripper]

They moved because they had become defensive liabilities at SS, which is certainly not the case for ARod.

The way Jeter goes back on balls, maybe they should move him to center and shift A-rod back to short but then who plays 3rd? I said it was odd that A-rod moved in the prime of his career but he did it to try an win a ring. I doubt there is any team in baseball other than NYY A-Rod makes the move.

[r. mutt]

I agree A-Rod is more valuable as an SS, but to say he's wasted at 3B is just absurd.
Ah, I see, you misread what I meant. I'm talking about waste relative to the fielding if ARod and Jeter switched, not an overall waste...


He's the best SS or best 3B in game no matter which position you play him.
I don't think the distinction is nearly as significant at 3B as it is at SS.

[r. mutt]

The way Jeter goes back on balls, maybe they should move him to center and shift A-rod back to short but then who plays 3rd?

I've heard that suggested before...how fast is Jeter? I think it gets suggested more often than not because the need for a CF is so obvious, but is Jeter faster than Matsui?

I said it was odd that A-rod moved in the prime of his career but he did it to try an win a ring. I doubt there is any team in baseball other than NYY A-Rod makes the move.

Are we 100% sure he knew he would be playing 3B?

[Hagbard Celine]

This Boston Red Sox thread has taken a seriously disturbing .

[RedSoxFan]

The way Jeter goes back on balls, maybe they should move him to center and shift A-rod back to short but then who plays 3rd? I said it was odd that A-rod moved in the prime of his career but he did it to try an win a ring. I doubt there is any team in baseball other than NYY A-Rod makes the move.

Only because there isn't a team in baseball stupid enough to have A-Rod move from SS.

Hagbard is right, this discussion belongs in the Yankees thread. We know they need the posts over there.

[GefilteFish144]

I've heard that suggested before...how fast is Jeter? I think it gets suggested more often than not because the need for a CF is so obvious, but is Jeter faster than Matsui?

Jeter's a fast guy, definitely faster than Matsui and Bernie. (Godzilla has average speed.) Hey, I'd be for Jeter in CF, Escalona at SS. :)

[Jables]

Ok, so Mike Timlin as closer isn't perfect either...

Luckily, Sox still win 5-2... sure enough, Yankees win too (Felix Escalona? :roll: )

[r. mutt]

Hagbard is right, this discussion belongs in the Yankees thread. We know they need the posts over there.

Good point. We've established that Manny is statistically better in the clutch than A-Rod, that Drzy needs some remedial math, that Jeter is an insufferably selfish ba#tard, and that we're still nervous about the Yankees. Now back to regularly-scheduled programming.

So when can we get Hanson up to close in place of Timlin?

[Drzy]

We've established... that Drzy needs some remedial math. ... Now back to regularly-scheduled programming.What the? I haven't even looked at this thread in a couple days. Last I saw, you were saying the numbers weren't close, or something like that. Did I miss a math-related post? If there are numbers somewhere saying Manny is the best hitter, I'd definitely like to see them.

Saying "Now back to regularly-scheduled programming" after that is like telling a friend you're dating his ex and then saying welp, gotta get some sleep and hanging up.

[Triangle Man]

So when can we get Hanson up to close in place of Timlin?Will they play MMM-Bop when he comes out of the bullpen? That would be awesome. And by awesome, I mean not awesome, because the kid's name is spelled Hansen, not Hanson.

[GefilteFish144]

Hagbard is right, this discussion belongs in the Yankees thread. We know they need the posts over there.

We'll stay off your site if you stay off ours. Otherwise, all discussions are fair game.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

What the? I haven't even looked at this thread in a couple days. Last I saw, you were saying the numbers weren't close, or something like that. Did I miss a math-related post? If there are numbers somewhere saying Manny is the best hitter, I'd definitely like to see them.

Starting at post #1822, I created (or stole from someone) "RBI-Productivity," which shows Manny driving in a higher percentage of runners in scoring position.
I might have to make a new thread for this, seeing as it's gettting buried in daily updates and YankeeTalk.

[yankeetripper]

Hagbard is right, this discussion belongs in the Yankees thread. We know they need the posts over there.

Just because we don't pad the post count with a play by play account of every game and daily recap doesn't mean we need posts. I get a Red Sox fan attacking A-Rod over here, I'm gonna defend him.

[r. mutt]

What the? I haven't even looked at this thread in a couple days. Last I saw, you were saying the numbers weren't close, or something like that. Did I miss a math-related post? If there are numbers somewhere saying Manny is the best hitter, I'd definitely like to see them.

Go back and follow the thread. The question you raised wasn't 'best hitter', it was 'better of Manny and Arod in a critical situation.' Plenty of numbers posted since then.


Saying "Now back to regularly-scheduled programming" after that is like telling a friend you're dating his ex and then saying welp, gotta get some sleep and hanging up.

Yeah...that was fun. :wink:

[r. mutt]

The Blue Jays are sending a message tonight...to their own bullpen.

[Jables]

Gah, bases loaded the last three innings and no runs!

[r. mutt]

The Blue Jays are sending a message tonight...to their own bullpen.

And now the bullpen is sending a message back. dit dit dit...dah dah dah...dit dit dit.

[Jables]

Bradford gets two big strikeouts to get out of an 8th inning jam... time for the Sox bats to put this game away in the 9th...

[Jables]

Leadoff single for Manny! :clap:

[Jables]

Nixon flies out to left...

[Jables]

Varitek flies out as well...

[r. mutt]

Freaking K looking, 13 men left.

[Jables]

Let's hope Timlin handles himself a little better tonight!

[r. mutt]

Let's hope Timlin handles himself a little better tonight!

Amazing they can't put KC away after the gift from Toronto. This is Timlin's first big appearance, eh?

[r. mutt]

Of course, Timlin threw 35 last night. :roll2:

[hotkarl]

no schilling?

[Jables]

no schilling?

Starting tomorrow's game...

[r. mutt]

no schilling?

Starts tomorrow PM.


Oh, freak...Timlin walks the guy. :tfh:

[Jables]

DeJesus Christ, I shouldn't have to be this nervous about a game against the frickin' Royals...

[r. mutt]

Wow, Millar, gold glove.

Why isn't this guy taking a bigger lead?

[r. mutt]

DeJesus Christ, I shouldn't have to be this nervous about a game against the frickin' Royals...

Jebus, please help the Red Sox!

[Jables]

Eek, this is no good...

[r. mutt]

Well this should be over soon. :shake:

[hotkarl]

dammit

[Jables]

intentional walk of Sweeney, hope for the DP on Ambres :tfh:

[r. mutt]

Giving a Royal the IBB. :shake: :shake: :shake:

[r. mutt]

Put in Olerud.

Lynn Jones yelling at Manny to come in.

[Jables]

Damn, woulda be a nice force out...

[Jables]

K!

[r. mutt]

Big K!

Jesus, it's like a freaking playoff game.

[r. mutt]

Big K!

Jesus, it's like a freaking playoff game.

Except no wokka wokkas from Jables.

[r. mutt]

RSP=RSP+1

[Jables]

You put the Emil in the coconut...

[Jables]

Pop-up!

Extra innings! (Where the Sox are 4-1 this year) :D

[r. mutt]

Extra innings!!!!!

Imagine how excited we'll get if the Sox make the playoffs...

[hotkarl]

Extra innings!!!!!

Imagine how excited we'll get if the Sox make the playoffs...

if? I think it would be a dissapointment if they didn't.

[Jables]

Cripes, that half inning went in the blink of an eye...

Timlin threw 26 pitches in the 9th, Arroyo coming out of the pen tonight for the 10th...

[Jables]

1-2-3 go the Royals... did everyone else fall asleep?

[Jables]

Renteria flies out...

[Jables]

Ortiz strikes out looking...

[r. mutt]

Still here. Work will be a bear tomorrow.

[Jables]

Manny grounds out... onto the bottom of the 11th!

[r. mutt]

14 more minutes and I'm off to bed. I hope the game's still going by then.

[Jables]

Except no wokka wokkas from Jables.

Someone else might have to take over those duties... I'll be honeymooning around the time of the ALCS this year (Thank God the Sox won it last year, would probably getting divorced within a week if I had to stress out as much over this year's postseason)

[r. mutt]

Someone else might have to take over those duties... I'll be honeymooning around the time of the ALCS this year (Thank God the Sox won it last year, would probably getting divorced within a week if I had to stress out as much over this year's postseason)

Is your wife2B aware of your sports fixation?

[Jables]

Hocking flies out...

[r. mutt]

Another big storm cell on the way in KC...

[Jables]

DeJesus wokka wokka wokkas...

[Jables]

Long singles... :tfh:

[r. mutt]

Sweeney at the Plate.

[r. mutt]

:lol: GoogleAd says "huge amounts of Red Sox tickets". Sure, in KC and Toronto...

[Jables]

:lol: GoogleAd says "huge amounts of Red Sox tickets". Sure, in KC and Toronto...

Yeah, they claim to cheap too, so I think you hit the nail on the head...

[Jables]

Sweeney at the Plate.

Wokka wokka wokka!

[r. mutt]

All right, force play available at the plate! :tfh: :tfh:

[Jables]

Deja vu...

Ambres gets his 1st and 2nd major league AB with bases loaded in the same game...

[r. mutt]

Deja vu...

Ambres gets his 1st and 2nd major league AB with bases loaded in the same game...

No kidding. Wonder if they're going after him on 0-2.

[r. mutt]

oh, crap.

[Jables]

Fly out, close play on the throw home... DeJesus ruled safe :(

[Jables]

That was painful last night... I had to watch innings 9-12 of Game 4 before falling asleep to cheer me up.

[RedSoxFan]

Renteria became the first Sox to have two separate streaks of three straight POGs this season, going 3/5 with 1 RBI and 2 runs in the Sox' Tuesday evening 5-2 victory over the Royals. He was the only Sox to get on base more than once. Wells gave up 5 hits and 2 walks but no runs in 5 innings of work, Jeremi Gonzalez pitched the ext three innings, giving up just a walk. Timlin got a practice save appearance after being named temporary closer: though he got two of the first three batters out, he then allowed a walk, a single that loaded the bases, and a single that scored two and brought the tying run to the plate. Fortunately, that batter grounded out.

The Sox were not so fortunate last night, losing 4-3 to the Royals in 11 innings. The game got off to a good start, as Manny singled in Damon in the first, and Millar hit a solo homer! in the 2nd. But the offense sputtered after that: after Damon walking and Renteria singling him to third in the third, Ortiz grounded into a double play that put the Sox up 3-0. In the 5th Damon and Renteria again walked and singled (though this time with one out in the inning) and Ortiz walked, but Manny ended the inning with a double play. Then in the 6th with two out, Millar, Mueller, and Graffanino loaded the bases, but Damon grounded out. In the 7th, Renteria singled, Ortiz flied out, and Manny walked and Trot singled to again load the bases, this time with one out, but Varitek struck out and Millar lined out. The Sox again had two on with two out in the 8th, but Ortiz fouled out.

Clement allowed a game-tying 2-run homer in the 5th to make it 3-3, but the Royals also had difficulty scoring. Clement got out of a jam in the 6th, loading the bases with one out, but benefited from a double play. In the bottom of the 8th the Royals led off the inning with a walk and a single, but Bradford finished off the inning. Then in the next inning, Timlin allowed a one-out walk followed by a single, then an intentional walk. He got out of that jam by getting a strikeout (the same guy, Ambres, that he got out for the final out in the previous game. Also - remember we gave up Ambres in the trade for Graffanino) and a pop-out.

The Sox couldn't even get anybody on down the stretch: Manny's single to lead off the 9th was the last baserunner of the game. Arroyo pitched the last two innings, and loaded the bases with one out in the 11th, but then allowed a fly ball to Manny, and the runner tagged and scored as the throw from left field was a little off target. Guess who hit it: yep, Ambres.

Renteria gets an amazing fourth POG in a row for going 3/5 again. He also got a walk, but no runs or RBIs. Millar went 2/4, with the RBI and R from his homer.

[Jables]

Anyone know who is getting the start at 1B tonight?

[yankeetripper]

Anyone know who is getting the start at 1B tonight?

Someone overrated who can't hit for power.

[Jables]

Someone overrated who can't hit for power.

I need specifics!

[Jables]

I know that batting average ain't everything, but if Olerud starts at 1B, you've got the like the fact that the LOWEST BA in the starting lineup is Manny Ramirez at .285

[yankeetripper]

I know that batting average ain't everything, but if Olerud starts at 1B, you've got the like the fact that the LOWEST BA in the starting lineup is Manny Ramirez at .285

Does it really matter, if you can't score 7 off Lima I'd consider it a substandard performance.

[Jables]

Does it really matter, if you can't score 7 off Lima I'd consider it a substandard performance.

Yanks haven't faced Lima yet (and won't this year), but you've yet to put up more than 3 runs vs. KC and are 0-3 against Carrasco (4.88), Greinke (6.04) and Jensen (7.11)

[yankeetripper]

Yanks haven't faced Lima yet (and won't this year), but you've yet to put up more than 3 runs vs. KC and are 0-3 against Carrasco (4.88), Greinke (6.04) and Jensen (7.11)

But Yanks do lead the season series against the Sox so I guess you better hope the D-Rays & Royals continue to do your dirty work, or that AL East will once again remain in NY. :wave:

[Jables]

But Yanks do lead the season series against the Sox so I guess you better hope the D-Rays & Royals continue to do your dirty work, or that AL East will once again remain in NY. :wave:

I'm hoping the Sox can take 2 out of 3 in NY in a few weeks... division and season series could very easily come down to the final 3 games at Fenway

[r. mutt]

But Yanks do lead the season series against the Sox so I guess you better hope the D-Rays & Royals continue to do your dirty work, or that AL East will once again remain in NY. :wave:

:lol: It's the other way around. The Sox had a 29-28 series edge over the Yankees 2002-2004, but didn't see the pennant...Baltimore did NY's dirty work for them.

[yankeetripper]

:lol: It's the other way around. The Sox had a 29-28 series edge over the Yankees 2002-2004, but didn't see the pennant...Baltimore did NY's dirty work for them.

I figured some Sox fan would bring this up, but since the Angels are the only team w/ a winning record against the Yankees since '96, the Yanks have been able to take care their own dirty work pretty well I'd say. :beer:

[r. mutt]

I figured some Sox fan would bring this up, but since the Angels are the only team w/ a winning record against the Yankees since '96, the Yanks have been able to take care their own dirty work pretty well I'd say. :beer:

Wow, you gotta be desperate to go back to the last millennium and bring up a team that looks nothing like it does today. :shake:

[yankeetripper]

Wow, you gotta be desperate to go back to the last millennium and bring up a team that looks nothing like it does today. :shake:

I don't know - Jeter, Posada, Williams, Rivera have been there that whole run and '98 was when the string of AL East pennents started. I'm just following a logical thread.

[r. mutt]

I don't know - Jeter, Posada, Williams, Rivera have been there that whole run and '98 was when the string of AL East pennents started. I'm just following a logical thread.

Then start in 1998 when the pennant run started, or in 1997 when Posada was a regular player.

[r. mutt]

Blechh. No wonder Theo and Tito kept saying today that the next five outings not tonight's game - are the real test of Schilling's comeback. I guess they knew what was coming.

[r. mutt]

Cora. :shake: Couldn't kill the rally with a DP, so he gets CS on a crappy throw. :shake:

Yayyyyy, bring on Remlinger!

[Jables]

That was painful last night... I had to watch innings 9-12 of Game 4 before falling asleep to cheer me up.

Time to fire up Game 5!

[Mike and Maddog]

Curt- biggest ERA in season after winning 20 games. Beats out Lima for that.

I don't know what I like better, Curt as starter or closer. Both are so entertaining.

[GefilteFish144]

Curt Shelling vs. Randy Johnson at Fenway would probably have higher scores than most NFL games played that week.

[Triangle Man]

The Yankees had their opportunity to catch the Sox, and blew it. Now they start a 14 game homestand featuring the Tigers, Devil Rays, Orioles and Angels. Here comes the BOOM.

[Triangle Man]

Is it just me, or have the Red Sox been hitting an awful lot of line drives right at people lately?

[r. mutt]

It happens...at least they're making really good contact while leading.

Bradford, though...for the first time in my life I find myself switching channels right before a pitch (to the Redskins game or any random commercial) and then switching back to see the results. Just can't watch that guy pitch.

[Jables]

The losses are ugly.
The wins are ugly.
Remlinger is ugly.

But I'll take it!

[Triangle Man]

It happens...at least they're making really good contact while leading.I know it happens, but it seems like it's been happening a lot more often in the past week or so. While opposing batters hit little bloopers that land just fair, or sneak around Pesky's Pole, or :swear:

[GefilteFish144]

Bradford, though...for the first time in my life I find myself switching channels right before a pitch (to the Redskins game or any random commercial) and then switching back to see the results. Just can't watch that guy pitch.

Not sure his docs can watch either, which is why his name pops up on the DL so often....

[r. mutt]

Not sure his docs can watch either, which is why his name pops up on the DL so often....

I think it's actually from having watched BH Kim pitch for the Sox. :smile:

[Jables]

About a year from now, when I'm married, someone remind me to use the "she still has that new wife smell" line...

[r. mutt]

About a year from now, when I'm married, someone remind me to use the "she still has that new wife smell" line...

Um...maybe not. My wife was pretty amazed he said that on TV.

[Triangle Man]

About a year from now, when I'm married, someone remind me to use the "she still has that new wife smell" line...That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I was not surprised at all that Remy was lost in laughter for about an inning.

[Jables]

That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I was not surprised at all that Remy was lost in laughter for about an inning.

And himself repeating the line a few times didn't help his cause! :lol:

[GefilteFish144]

What was the "new wife smell" referring to?

[Hagbard Celine]

I went to two games this year and they lost both of them. :swear:

I went to Saturday's game....6 run inning, 6-0 lead, and we lose. :lol:

Oh well.

[Jables]

What was the "new wife smell" referring to?

John O'Hurley (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0641417/) (J. Peterman from Seinfeld), a big Red Sox fan was on hand Friday to help out the local annual Jimmy Fund telethon, and he sang the national anthem during the 7th inning stretch. After he sang, he did a small interview with the field reporter along with Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo. I guess he had gotten married around a year ago around the time of the telethon last year, and they were asking if he'd be back next year, soandso... He brought his wife onto camera and introduced her and said that even after a year she "still had that new wife smell", and ended the interview with that. Well Remy got a bad case of the giggles from that, and that in turn got Orsillo laughing and they fed off each other until the inning was over and they could escape to a commercial :)

[Wannabe Actuary]

They showed a fan holding up a sign that said "after 7 years she still has that new wife smell"


freakin' hysterical

[IAm@Work.com]

... Well Remy got a bad case of the giggles from that, and that in turn got Orsillo laughing and they fed off each other until the inning was over and they could escape to a commercial :)These yokels that announce for the Sox can't seem to pay any attention to the game. Especially if the Sox are up, they are talking about anything but baseball.

Is it as bad in other cities?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Sorry, we're stuck with "The World's Greatest Baseball Announcer, Period" for the Dodgers. I'm not even all that agog over the Dodgers, but Vinny makes it worth watching.

[GefilteFish144]

These yokels that announce for the Sox can't seem to pay any attention to the game. Especially if the Sox are up, they are talking about anything but baseball.

Is it as bad in other cities?

I'm guessing that since the Sox tend to score their runs in bunches, they have more blowouts than your average team. When that happens, the viewers could care less about what goes on in the field. Haven't really kept track of my team since I often put games on mute or watch them in the gym while playing music.

[Jables]

Rumors had been circulating that Bellhorn was headed to Oakland... and now there are reports (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/4820784) he's gonna join Embree as a Yankee!

[r. mutt]

Rumors had been circulating that Bellhorn was headed to Oakland... and now there are reports (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/4820784) he's gonna join Embree as a Yankee!

That's beautiful. Any chance they'll pick up Remlinger?

[RedSoxFan]

On Thursday night the Sox finished the series with the Royals, actually losing the series 2 games to 1 with a 7-4 loss. Schilling made his first start since his return, and felt like his stuff was good, but his results were not, as he gave up 6 runs in 5 innings. Mueller was the only Red Sox with more than one hit. Remlinger gave up 1 hit in 1 inning, Papelbon pitched 2 innings but gave up a run. Papi didn't play because of a bruised hand from a slide the previous game.

The Sox returned to Boston on Friday for a 14-game homestand, and beat Detroit 9-8. The Sox survived 4 homers: the Tigers led off the 4th with a walk, a homer, a double, and another homer to go up 5-3. The second homer was hotly contested: originally called foul, the umpires got together, and the second-base umpire overruled the call, saying it had gone around the Pesky Pole. Francona was ejected after arguing about how the call was reversed. The Tigers added a couple more homers, both solo, off of Gonzalez in the 7th, but in between the Sox had scored 6 times, 2 in the 5th led by an Ortiz double, and 4 more in the 6th, led by a Graffanino single and a Manny double, after Damon reached on a wild pitch after striking out. Bradford allowed men to reach 2nd and 3rd with none out in the 8th, but allowed just one run, on a sac-fly, to preserve the Sox lead. Graffanino was 3/4 with a walk, an RBI, and 3 runs, but Manny edges him for POG, going 2/3 with a walk and 3 RBIs. Wakefield gave up 5 runs, 4 earned, in 6 innings.

On Saturday, the Sox jumped out to a 6-0 lead, led by a 3-run homer by Ortiz, as all 9 Sox came to the plate. Arroyo promptly allowed a grand slam, however, and then a couple more doubles, and just like that the Tigers had cut the lead to 6-5. Graffanino scored in the 4th on a wild pitch, but a couple doubles early in the 6th cut the lead back to one and chased Arroyo after 5.1 innings of work. Papelbon then allowed consecutive doubles that put the Tigers up 8-7. Jonathon got the next two batters to strike out, but then loaded the bases with one out in the 7th, and walked in the 9th run for the Tigers. A Varitek sac-fly cut the Tigers lead to 1 in the 7th, but in the 8th Gonzalez and Remlinger combined to allow three more runs. Graffanino gets POG. He was 1/3 with a walk and 2 runs. Ortiz led in RBIs, with 3, but ended up 1/5 with 3 Ks. Renteria was 2/5, Nixon was 2/4, and Varitek was 2/3, all three with 1 R and 1 RBI. Damon fell to 2nd in the AL batting average race.

The Sox finished off the Tigers on Sunday with an 11-3 victory. The Sox scored 28 runs in the 3-game set. Wells gave the bullpen some rest, going 7 innings, giving up 3 runs, 2 earned, on 9 hits, getting 7 strikeouts. Bradford pitched an inning, and Abe Alvarez pitched the 9th (he was called up for Remlinger, who was DFA'd). A difficult decision for POG, as Damon went 2/4 with a walk, 3 RBIs, and a run, and Papi went 3/5 with 3 RBIs and 2 R, but POG goes to Mueller, who went 3/4 with 2 RBIs and 2 R.

[GefilteFish144]

Latest rumor says that Sox have their eyes on Trachsel. Any chance of getting him?

[Wannabe Actuary]

Latest rumor says that Sox have their eyes on Trachsel. Any chance of getting him?
With the Muts, I mean Mets only 1.5 out of the WC, I'd say slim.

[Patience]

Latest rumor says that Sox have their eyes on Trachsel. Any chance of getting him?

Right now Mets are over loaded at starting pitcher, but what we really need is more relief help and I really don't see Sox helping us there.

I would hate to give him up for someone who won't help this season, unless we rob you blind for a good prospect

[Drzy]

Right now Mets are over loaded at starting pitcher, but what we really need is more relief help and I really don't see Sox helping us there.Wrong thread for this question, sorry...

What have the Mets been doing with their extra starters? My theory has always been the level of pitching from starters moves up a couple notches when they move to a relief role. Have the extra starters performed at all well in relief?

[Patience]

Wrong thread for this question, sorry...

What have the Mets been doing with their extra starters? My theory has always been the level of pitching from starters moves up a couple notches when they move to a relief role. Have the extra starters performed at all well in relief?

Trachsel just recently came off the DL, they gave him quite a few rehab starts and kept him in limbo for a while. He had one start, but it was a 2 hit shut out over 8 innings.

He truly has been the steadiest pitcher for this team the last four seasons.
He also feels he can't pitch in relief because he takes too long to get loose and warm.

Pedro, Glavine & Benson aren't going to the pen.

Zambrano just doesn't throw enough strikes and is more reliable over the course of a game then the course of any inning. Plus I think there is still a need to validate the trade for Kazmir.

Seo would be the logical choice. Not sure how well he warms up and would come back day by day, but he is the youngest(28). But he is 6-1 this year, 1.30 ERA. and even better since his last call up. (4-0 0.89) I feel they want to ride that as long as possible.

[Triangle Man]

Given Pedro's history, I'm sure they've given ample consideration to a 6 man rotation.

[Patience]

Given Pedro's history, I'm sure they've given ample consideration to a 6 man rotation.

I would agree, they don't seem inclined to give Pedro the extra rest and possibly take away starts.

Even when they pitched Trachsel, it was the day after Pedro, not the day before giving him the extra rest. All I can figure is Pedro has said his back stiffens up on the flights and maybe the preferred to pitch him the last game of a series, rather than the first.

But even Pedro said that an extra 24 hrs isn't going to make a difference, he'll rest when the season ends.

[r. mutt]

Good lord, it's like playoff baseball against Tampa Bay. Clutch hitting, a big comeback...all that and a can of corn.


Jerry Trupiano, the most annoying announcer in the history of radio, did finally say something funny tonight when Piniella was trying to delay and get someone going in the bullpen. "Lou Piniella is walking to the mound...we'll apprise you of his progress...approaching the foul line now...nearing the mound...almost there..."

[r. mutt]

Yeah Trot!


Now on to watching the Yankees...with Bellhorn at 3rd!

[Pseudolus]

Just caught the end of the game. Two thoughts:

1) The grounds crew is going to have an interesting time filling in that crater Ortiz made in front of 3rd base.

b) On the play-of-the-game replay, it didn't actually seem that 'Tek tagged that guy off of Nixon's throw. Did he?

[Jables]

Whooo! I thought we were headed for fully implowned status there...

[Wannabe Actuary]

not sure how long this has been up...

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/fan_forum/redsox_nation.jsp

thought it was worth sharing

[Jables]

It's been up since before this season began I think.

I'll keep my $10, thankyaverymuch

[Wannabe Actuary]

It's been up since before this season began I think.

I'll keep my $10, thankyaverymuch
That was my opinion too...didn't know if it would be worth it for me (the gameday audio especially) since I don't get to watch many games.

At this point in the season, it's not really worth it. Many of the games down the stretch (at least the Yanks v Red Sox) will be televised. The playoffs are always on TV.

Next year the woman and I are ordering the MLB package...we both love the Sox....

PS - Her parents are Republicans and Yankee fans....even though she voted Bush in the last election, she's apologized many times for doing so and admitted she was heavily impacted by her parents views. Now since establishing her own opinions, she's more of a Democrat than Republican...and she's a Sox fan.

[Libertarian Man]

PS - Her parents are Republicans and Yankee fans....even though she voted Bush in the last election, she's apologized many times for doing so and admitted she was heavily impacted by her parents views. Now since establishing her own opinions, she's more of a Democrat than Republican...and she's a Sox fan.She's almost there. Just one more tiny step to take to perfection.

[Wannabe Actuary]

She's almost there. Just one more tiny step to take to perfection.

And that would be?

[RedSoxFan]

That was my opinion too...didn't know if it would be worth it for me (the gameday audio especially) since I don't get to watch many games.

At this point in the season, it's not really worth it. Many of the games down the stretch (at least the Yanks v Red Sox) will be televised. The playoffs are always on TV.

Next year the woman and I are ordering the MLB package...we both love the Sox....

PS - Her parents are Republicans and Yankee fans....even though she voted Bush in the last election, she's apologized many times for doing so and admitted she was heavily impacted by her parents views. Now since establishing her own opinions, she's more of a Democrat than Republican...and she's a Sox fan.

That created a huge stir among a lot of Red Sox fans when they created that card. I think it's mostly because they used the term Red Sox Nation. All of us in Red Sox Nation are already part of the nation, we shouldn't have to pay money to get an ID card that says we're "official members". If they called it something else, they would have offended a lot less Red Sox fans, and probably would've gotten a lot more people to join, as I think a lot of fans (myself included) refuse to pay on principle.

By the way, let your wife know that there are Republican Red Sox fans out there (maybe I should start the Republican Red Sox Nation?)

[RedSoxFan]

And that would be?

Returning to her Republican roots? :-?

[Guerilla poster]

And that would be?


Is she still nuts or has she grown out of that?

[Atheist Man]

And that would be?When she stops believing in fairy tales.