VEE Exam vs. NEAS Final

[wat?]

For those of you that partook of the NEAS modules (Time Series/Regression), how does the CAS VEE Exam compare? The latter is found on the CAS Website. If you could, please discuss the difficulty, content, spread (cumulative vs. focused on certain topics). I have others in my company that will be interested in your opinions.

[song]

For those of you that partook of the NEAS modules (Time Series/Regression), how does the CAS VEE Exam compare? The latter is found on the CAS Website. If you could, please discuss the difficulty, content, spread (cumulative vs. focused on certain topics). I have others in my company that will be interested in your opinions.

I spent 2 mins looking on the Cas website and couldn't find the damn thing! It'll be helpful if you posted the link at least.

I took both NEAS Time Series and Regression. The finals were a joke. All the questions were either on the released 'sample exam' or very similar. And on top of that, they gave very obvious hints. I want to say that you could have done at least 40% of the Time Series questions by just purely following their hints, plugging numbers into the equation they gave.

[saahu5]

I spent 2 mins looking on the Cas website and couldn't find the damn thing! It'll be helpful if you posted the link at least.

I took both NEAS Time Series and Regression. The finals were a joke. All the questions were either on the released 'sample exam' or very similar. And on top of that, they gave very obvious hints. I want to say that you could have done at least 40% of the Time Series questions by just purely following their hints, plugging numbers into the equation they gave.

http://www.casact.org/admissions/veeex_ans.htm

[No More 5's]

NEAS was so much easier than the CAS transitional. They threw the same practice problems onto their final exams, gave hints on almost every problem, and for the final only focused on some of the easier topics.

The only bad thing about the NEAS courses are that you have to send in the application with a fee to the SOA/CAS for approval. With the CAS exam, you get the credit automatically.

[Triangle Man]

Does the CAS monitor the difficulty of the NEAS modules and final exams? Is there any chance that the NEAS will receive some sort of "encouragement" to make their final exams a bit more challenging?

[song]

NEAS is easier, by far.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SOA revoked NEAS courses as being able to satisfy the VEE.

[Herb]

All I know is that I put in 8 total hours on NEAS (including all HW and exam prep and time to submit everything) and passed the time series final with a 48/50. If all of my college classes where that easy college would have been a breeze. NEAS is just something you do to check VEE off your checklist it isn't any sort of a challenge at all.

[azaremba]

It states on the SOA website that the Applied Stat NEAS Course is valid up until fall of this year in which time they will reconsider extending it. My opinion is that the course will become some what harder at that point...

[Triangle Man]

It states on the SOA website that the Applied Stat NEAS Course is valid up until fall of this year in which time they will reconsider extending it. My opinion is that the course will become some what harder at that point...If they were concerned that the course was so easy that it might no longer be accepted for VEE credit, wouldn't they do well to make it harder BEFORE fall of this year?

[2M]

After a quick 1 minute glance at the CAS VEE exam here are my observations:

There are certainly fewer questions on the CAS test but it appears that is the only thing it has going for it.

You could have done the NEAS final in your sleep.

Most of the questions were either direct copies of the practice tests or in the following form:

Calculate "blah-blah" and use the follow equation to solve it.

Almost like it draws the map for you and all you have to do is connect the dots. Couldn't get any easier.

I noticed the CAS test didn't give the formulas that you needed to use inside the question.

[Triangle Man]

Are the NEAS finals available anywhere for download? Having taken the CAS transitional, I'm curious as to how much easier they had it.

[azaremba]

Terrell Owens would have a 50/50 chance at passing it.

[wat?]

Are the NEAS finals available anywhere for download? Having taken the CAS transitional, I'm curious as to how much easier they had it.

How'd you do on it, TM?

[2M]

Are the NEAS finals available anywhere for download? Having taken the CAS transitional, I'm curious as to how much easier they had it.

The practice tests should be on their website.

That is pretty darn close to the actual exam.

[2M]

The actual finals probably won't be

[twig93]

Terrell Owens would have a 50/50 chance at passing it.

OK, this is a stretch, but the NEAS finals are certainly easier than the CAS exam. Is anyone actually surprised by that fact?

I can't quite imagine doing all the homeworks and studying for the final in 8 hours unless you'd seen the material before. I probably put in more like 20 hours for each topic, and I'd seen the material before (Took a Regression class in college plus I took Course 4 three times before the transition.) It wasn't difficult at all, but I do feel like I (re)learned a bit - so not totally useless, just mostly useless.

I would be surprised if the SoA/CAS do not urge NEAS to make their exams a bit harder.

[Triangle Man]

How'd you do on it, TM?9/15

[Hawa]

I have to say that the difficulty of NEAS is same as most college or university exams. In colleges and universities, too, the professors give formulae and other hints and most of the questions are from practice problems and class notes. If NEAS is encouraged to make their exams harder, the CAS or society also needs to encourage the colleges and universities to make their courses harder. For sure, CAs can't encourage all the universities and colleges to make their courses harder. But, it can encourage itself to cancel the VEE credits from colleges and universities and NEAS and start taking itself only.
It is not NEAS only. It is wide spread problem in colleges and universities. Or we can say that SOa and CAS exams are just difficult to make the exam difficult and has nothing to do with the knowledge learnt in the course.

[azaremba]

I have to say that the difficulty of NEAS is same as most college or university exams.

I Disagree... the average score for this exam had to be over 85, maybe even 90. Not sure about you but I can't remember a math class at U of I that had an average score that high.

[Kazodev]

I Disagree... the average score for this exam had to be over 85, maybe even 90. Not sure about you but I can't remember a math class at U of I that had an average score that high.

I do, math/stat 409 (or 309 if you took it before they randomly 100 to all course numbers)

[wat?]

9/15

Will that be a passing grade? I'm not really "in the know" about the CAS VEE exams.

[Triangle Man]

Will that be a passing grade? I'm not really "in the know" about the CAS VEE exams.I think it very likely will be.

[wat?]

I think it very likely will be.

What kind of study time did you invest into the exam? What kind of company support did you receive?

[Math333]

It took me at least 50 hours to pass the NEAS seminar, possibly close to 100. I read through everything and really felt like I understood Time Series using NEAS, since they explained everything very intuitively using everyday language. I feel like the CAS VEE exam would just reward memorization and knowing obscure tricks, without really understanding the material. I learned a lot more by using NEAS than CAS.

[2M]

It took me at least 50 hours to pass the NEAS seminar, possibly close to 100. I read through everything and really felt like I understood Time Series using NEAS, since they explained everything very intuitively using everyday language. I feel like the CAS VEE exam would just reward memorization and knowing obscure tricks, without really understanding the material. I learned a lot more by using NEAS than CAS.

Hence the point of the NEAS class. They went out of their way to say this wasn't about memorization, that we should be able to walk away from the class knowing the concepts.

[Triangle Man]

What kind of study time did you invest into the exam? What kind of company support did you receive?I get 37.5 study hours for each VEE. I didn't study very much more than that.

[Puddy]

I'll throw out my thoughts on NEAS... I spent about 20-30 hours on each Regression and TS. I got 48/50 on both and could have done a fraction of that work and still passed with a very high grade. After actually going through all the exercises, reading, and homework I feel like I got a better understanding of the concepts than I did after taking C4 twice (Maybe that's why I failed it twice ;) )

Even though the course was easy, I definitely agree that it was on par with most college courses. I can't think of a single exam in college that I studied more than a couple hours for and I made very good grades. Some people say that the average grades aren't as high in college. Well, look at the sample of students in college vs. actuarial exams. Remember the reason we're all so arrogant? Also, remember how subjective college grades can be. We all know (or were) that person who somehow bargained his or her grade higher at the end of every semester by giving a sob story or doing an extra research paper.

The bottom line is that NEAS was a stress free, slightly more expensive (than CAS) way to fulfill VEE. I don't know if SoA/CAS will make them increase the difficulty or not, but I don't think that it is any easier than an average University course.

[Herb]

I agree that I didn't study much in college, but if you want to look at time if someone takes 20-30 hours to do a NEAS course that sounds reasonable, but if you look at a 3 hour course in a 16 week semester you have 48 hours of just class time right there. When you add all of your hw plus studying for all of the tests (most college classes have more than one) over the course of the semster your probably at 70 hours give or take (or more depending on the course). NEAS can be done easily in 20 hours and even less than that if someone wants to do the bare minimum to get by.

I'm not saying that number of hours spent is the only indicator of educational effectiveness, but obviously NEAS and a college class aren't the same thing.

Feel free to contradict me if you have a compelling argument the other direction.

[mjb]

To those who say the NEAS final was on par with any college course, I want to know what college you went to. I took the Time Series final and it was just ridiculously easy. Far easier than any exam I took in University. I'm actually a little embarassed about accepting the VEE credit (though I will accept it :smile: ).

Even in exams where the formulas were given (or cheat sheets allowed), they never explained, step by step, how to do the question like they did on the NEAS final.

[Triangle Man]

Feel free to contradict me if you have a compelling argument the other direction.This is the AO. I'm sure someone will feel free to contradict you even without a compelling argument. Check out Political sometime.

[azaremba]

I posted earlier here stating that the NEAS courses were much easier than any college classes (math related) I have ever taken.

I will say one thing on behalf of NEAS however, I did learn a good amount just by doing the homeworks and having those equations engraved in my head from seeing them on the final so much.

So, though it was easier than all math college courses I took, I may have learned more from this one than a course or two in the past... that may also be contributed to the fact I take my studies more seriously now as a working professional than I did as a freshman in school. And I got paid for this.

[Puddy]

I'm not saying that number of hours spent is the only indicator of educational effectiveness, but obviously NEAS and a college class aren't the same thing.

Very true that they are not the same. I believe that is why NEAS is listed under the "other" category for fulfilling VEE requirements. It's kinda like CLEPing out of a college course. They don't care how much time you spent on it as long as you show an understanding of the material. As easy and non-time consuming as it was, I still believe that the material learned and overall effectiveness is on par with the average college course.

I don't know what to think. I was super easy, but so was most of college. I guess the bottom line is that we are done with VEE and assuming that the SoA/CAS approves my form, all I have to worry about for the next 3 months is course C.

[twig93]

I agree that I didn't study much in college, but if you want to look at time if someone takes 20-30 hours to do a NEAS course that sounds reasonable, but if you look at a 3 hour course in a 16 week semester you have 48 hours of just class time right there. When you add all of your hw plus studying for all of the tests (most college classes have more than one) over the course of the semster your probably at 70 hours give or take (or more depending on the course). NEAS can be done easily in 20 hours and even less than that if someone wants to do the bare minimum to get by.

I'm not saying that number of hours spent is the only indicator of educational effectiveness, but obviously NEAS and a college class aren't the same thing.

Feel free to contradict me if you have a compelling argument the other direction.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think there are college classes out there that are as easy or almost as easy as NEAS. A college semester is generally 15 weeks with an additional week at the end for finals. And Regression or Time Series alone is generally not going to be a full 3 semester-hour course. Either one of them *might* be a 3 quarter-hour course which means 30 hours of classes each, but even that's pushing it I think.

I don't know about you, but on my easy college classes, I didn't actually attend every single class. Had I taken a 3-quarter-hour class that covered nothing but Regression, I think I quickly would have figured out that it was going to be an easy class, and I probably would have only showed up once a week. So that's only 10 hours of class time and maybe another hour a week of study makes 20 hours. Throw in an extra hour of studying for the final and two hours to actually take the final and we're up to 23 hours. And maybe I would have attended all three classes the first week, so the extra two hours of class time makes 25 hours. Unless it was a really hard college/professor, I can't see spending more time on it than that.

The other alternative is that if the professor took attendance (happened to me twice that a professor did this & took points off our grade if we weren't there) or gave frequent quizzes essentially requiring attendance, I'd do all the homework during class time and would spend zero time outside of class studying. So in that case, I may have spent 32 hours in such a class: 30 hours of class and another 2 for the final. It would have been VERY easy in such a circumstance - kind of like how easy NEAS is if you actually spend 30 hours on it before the final.

I definitely feel like I have a better understanding of Regression & Time Series now than I did after three tries at Course 4. With the old Course 4 you didn't have the luxury of taking the time to understand everything: you had to memorize, memorize, memorize. And I suck at memorizing which is why I failed the exam three times in a row.

NEAS is easy, but not worthless.