Anthrax

[Kimi]

I've been thinking if there is anything that I/we can do as individuals to protect against biological threats. At this point, here is what I (actually with the help of some) have come up with.

P100/N100 Dust Mask ($8):
As someone has mentioned the P100 or N100 particulate filtration rating is supposed to provide good protection against inhaling the Small Pox particulate, the Anthrax spore particulate and the Tuberculosis particulate. CNN reported on these masks briefly. These ratings however do not protect against the nerve gas or tear gas agents. I got one in my desk drawer at work, one in my glove compartment, and one mashed up in my purse. They basically look like your $0.10 dust mask you can get at any drug store but a bit more robust. Mine was about $8 each. The P100 (only about $0.50 more than the N100) is slightly better than the N100 because it also filters out some oil-based particulates. I know you can not wear these 24/7 but I figure if some mail room alter gets called I’ll just slip one on.

Bleach/Clorox:
Also, anyone know how effective bleach is at killing anthrax spores? I read that it is effective to some degree but how and at what concentration? Someone was asking me about putting a small open jar of bleach in her mail box so that by the time she gets her mail, any potential Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side (and perhaps any inside) of the envelop would be dead. I think I am more concerned about Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side of the envelop than having any deliberately mail to me in an envelope. Perhaps spraying my mail with a bleach water solution will work also work. What is the risk or threat level of mail having come through a post office which an Anthrax tainted letter also passed through?

Any thoughts?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimi on 2001-10-25 23:36 ]</font>

[Gomer]

The strains of anthrax found so far are the potent, military grade that is highly resistant to surface disinfection with bleach.

The mask won't save you. If you don't know there is anthrax in the environment, you won't be wearing the mask. If you do, you'll be put on 60 day cipro like everyone else and be fine.

Unless you wear the mask 24/7, you are no better off than someone not wearing it at all. And even then, a simple dust mask is not nearly 100% effective. For that, you need the whole enviro-suit/respirator dealy.

(Edited for spelling.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gomer on 2001-10-26 10:46 ]</font>

[Kimi]

“The strains of anthrax found so far are the potent, military grade that is highly resistant to surface disinfection with bleach.” by Gomer.

Not to doubt you but I’m interested in your source to look into it more. I thought that the military grade, weaponized Anthrax was refined for two features: (1) to clump less at float more (something about being attached to dust particles) and (2) more resistant to Ciprofloxacin.


“If you do [know that anthrax is in your environment], you'll be put on 60 day cipro like everyone else and be fine.” by Gomer.

Something that concerns me is that if some mail room alter occurs then people are confined to, for example, the same floor but a different room to avoid further contamination. This seems to be done until more reliable tests can be done at which point, if there is Anthrax, then the decontaminating showers are performed, etc.. (This is the protocol that occurred in my city on a false alarm (they did not get to the decontaminating but they did confine all employees to the floor).) I’m thinking, well, even with the Ciprofloxacin I would still prefer a few thousand less Anthrax spores that I may get in the time being quarantined.


”Unless you wear the mask 24/7, you are no better off than someone not wearing it at all. And even then, a simple dust mask is not nearly 100% effective. For that, you need the whole enviro-suit/respirator dealy.” By Gomer.

Perhaps I was not clear. I used the term dust mask to describe what the P100/N100-grade dust masks looks like. The P100/N100-grade dust mask is supposed to provide protection against inhaling the Small Pox particulate, the Anthrax spore particulate and even the Tuberculosis particulate. CNN briefly reported on this and the 3M catalog listed the P100 rating on their $300 Nuclear/Biological/Chemical gas masks. The P100 is the rating that protects against inhaling the Biological particulate. As for the suit, well cutaneous Anthrax is not what I am worried about because there is an indicating rash which is treatable. I know that we can not protect against everything. But it seems like $8 P100/N100-grade dust mask can provide a worthwhile amount of protection.

I do find it interesting that people have the cutaneous Anthrax and not the inhalational Anthrax. This tells me that there can be an indication of inhalational Anthrax risk.

[42]

We interrupt this thread for this breaking story about the most recent attack on a postal worker. No, not anthrax. This time it's bleach. Some wacko left a booby-trap in her mail box. When the letter carrier delivered this woman's mail, he came in contact with a small jar of bleach that had been hidden in the mail box, and severely burned his hand. The woman was arrested, strip-searched, and charged with assault. The letter carrier is suing her, and mail service has been discontinued to all homes within a 5-mile radius of her house. We now return you to your normal thread.

Or, to make a short story long: sometimes the "cure" is worse than the "disease".

[The Mister]

<font size=2>I've touched bleach before, and it doesn't burn my skin. What did she do? Get some sort of laboratory-grade concentrate?

[Kimi]

I would label the jar and touch bases with the mail carrier/local post office.

[Gomer]

Kimi, it sounds like you've really done your homework. I concede that wearing a less than 100% effective dust mask less than 100% of the time would provide SOME protection. But on a cost-benefit basis, I can't see wearing this thing 24/7, or even carrying it around in case something turns up.

The trick to surviving anthrax is to not be the first to exhibit symptoms from any given exposure. As long as that is the case, the mask isn't really necessary, in my mind. And if you are the first, the mask would have helped only if it had been worn at the time of exposure, ie. worn 24/7.

Keeping things in perspective here: there have been three deaths, and will perhaps be one or two more (that we know of) at this point. The anthrax threat to the average citizen in miniscule. Given all that, any expenditure of time or money seems out of proportion to me.

My counter-anthrax strategy is to stay out of mail rooms and Senate buildings in the DC area. Cost = $0.

But, go for it, if you want. Everybody has a different perspective.

[Actuary321]

On 2001-10-25 23:34, Kimi wrote:
Bleach/Clorox:
Also, anyone know how effective bleach is at killing anthrax spores? I read that it is effective to some degree but how and at what concentration? Someone was asking me about putting a small open jar of bleach in her mail box so that by the time she gets her mail, any potential Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side (and perhaps any inside) of the envelop would be dead. I think I am more concerned about Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side of the envelop than having any deliberately mail to me in an envelope. Perhaps spraying my mail with a bleach water solution will work also work. What is the risk or threat level of mail having come through a post office which an Anthrax tainted letter also passed through?

Any thoughts?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimi on 2001-10-25 23:36 ]</font>


I keep an open bottle of Clorox next to my toilet to kill those germs too, do you think it works?

[Kimi]

On 2001-10-26 00:15, E. Blackadder wrote:
If you want to clean your clock, just add ammonia to the bleach.


Does ammonia work to kill anthrax spores? I know that ammonia is strong and I think if I were to use it, I would doe it in like my own covered container and not in the mailbox.

[Gomer]

I think Blackadder was joking. If you mix ammonia and bleach you get an extremely hazardous gas that can cause severe respiratory distress.

As for the decontamination properties of ammonia - I don't know. But if I thought an area needed decontamination, I'd leave it to the authorities.

[Kimi]

From the CNN web site:

The New York Metro chapter of the American Postal Workers Union (APWU) plans to sue the U.S. Postal Service to FORCE THE CLOSING of Manhattan's largest mail sorting and distribution center, where anthrax cultures were discovered on four sorting machines, a union official said Friday.

Bacteria colonies found on four sorting machines in Manhattan's largest mail distribution center are anthrax, the U.S. Postal Service has confirmed. The machines at the Morgan processing and distribution facility were shut down, BUT THE FACILITY REMIANS OPEN.

I can’t believe that the Morgan/Manhattan post office is still delivering mail. Didn’t we learn from Brentwood, where two postal workers died, that if you find that Anthrax has passed through or if it is present, then you close the place down. Aren’t the Anthrax spores there hitchhiking or stowing-away on the out side all the legitimate mail passing through there?

[Indep]

Kimi,

If I were you, which I'm not, I would wear a gas mask 24/7. Especially to work, the zoo, or any other public places. Oh, and I'd pour bleach all over myself before eact time before I entered my home. (Add Ammonia if you feel it's necessary.)

just kidding, I think the terrorists have better targets than you. No offense, but they certainly have better targets than me too. Actually, they'd probably want to save you. Aren't you the one that wants grandmothers to walk the streets with automatic weapons. It would make them feel right at home here in America if you had you way.

[OT]

I think I see what Kimi is getting at. I I think she has a point about the Anthrax spores which hitch-hike or stow-away on ligitimate mail. This is perhaps why so many of the areas that Brentwood services are showing up with Anthrax.

[E. Blackadder]

On 2001-10-26 17:48, Kimi wrote:

On 2001-10-26 00:15, E. Blackadder wrote:
If you want to clean your clock, just add ammonia to the bleach.


Does ammonia work to kill anthrax spores? I know that ammonia is strong and I think if I were to use it, I would doe it in like my own covered container and not in the mailbox.


Sorry, Kimi (and for the benefit of the jargon-impaired out there in internetland).

"Clean your Clock" in this context = "Kill yourself." Ammonia and bleach make for a nerve gas. And you can get them at your favorite grocery store!

Anthrax is hard to eradicate from soil. Apparently the British took decades to remove it from one of their islands. But see today's WSJ. B-1, bottom. Apparently the "anthrax triange" is in no other than our Texas!

[Indep]

It always comes back to texas! We ought to give it back to mexico.

[42]

[sarcasm mode off, or at least toned down a little] OK, now for a slightly more serious answer. Depending on your fear factor (on a scale from 1 to 10), you could try these:

Relax and don’t change a thing (assuming you don’t work for the post office or the government in general or for a media mogul).
Wash with soap and warm water after touching mail. (Not a bad idea anyway.)
Wear rubber gloves and a mask when opening mail, and don’t shake letters or packages. And wash with soap and warm water after touching mail.
Do not open suspicious letters or packages, such as ones where the writing is in block letters or letters cut out of magazines. And wear rubber gloves and a mask, and don’t shake, and wash.
Do not open mail that has no return address. And all the items above.
Lock one room in the house. Only open the mail in that room, and do not take the mail out of that room. And all that other stuff.
Iron your mail with a steam iron before opening. And all that other stuff.
Do not accept a job offer from the post office, the government in general, or a media mogul. And all that other stuff.
With the anthrax scare, a new service is bound to be born, whereby people offer to open other people’s mail for a fee. Hire one of these people. And all that other stuff.
Have your post office hold your mail delivery. Instruct the person who opens your mail to pick it up at the post office. Have them open it up in their own home and read the contents to you over the phone. Then you don’t need all that other stuff.

Some people might view #10 as paranoia. Others may wonder how to get the number of one of these official “letter openers” in their neighborhood and how much they cost. I guess it all depends on your fear factor. To each his own.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 42 on 2001-10-27 19:04 ]</font>

[42]

Personally, I think people should do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves, as long as their actions don't harm others.

I think people hording Cipro or taking other antibiotics - even though they are hundreds of miles from the nearest anthrax case - are acting irresponsibly and irrationally. These people may be more of a threat to the American public than the idiots who are sending the Anthrax through the mail. Antibiotics are a good defense against anthrax now, but if people needlessly taking antibiotics inadvertently help to develop a strain that's resistent to these drugs, we're screwed.

Folks, this is only round 2 in the war of terrorism. We're bound to see things in the next few months/years that will make 9/11 and the anthrax threats seem like a walk in the park. If we're going to last for the duration, we need to find a way to get better control over our panic buttons.

[OT]

Yup, Kimi was right about weaponized anthrax being resistant to ciprofloxacin. We seem to be switching from ciprofloxacin to doxycycline.


“as long as their actions don't harm others” by 24

Yes, 42. And hording ciprofloxacin DOES harm others. I wonder if hording ciprofloxacin is considered an illegal use of a controlled substance.

Panic button control to prevent people from actions that harm others – absolutely. However, I don’t think someone should be ridiculed for say, (#5 Do not open mail that has no return address. And all the items above. Mask Gloves. Washing hands.) or for trying to think of ideas, like Kimi is.

I heard that the reason they kept Brentwood open is because the anthrax envelopes were so securely taped that it required a scissors to open the it. That being the case, to me, it makes this “stow-away” or “hitch hiking” spores a little more concerning.

I think I will (well my wife wants to -- it's kind of funny that she not concerned about how the mask looks because I'll be the one wearing it. But it's no problem.) do around #5: Mask, gloves, perhaps iron (I’m trying to eliminate this one. Also, I heard that only extream heat works), spray with bleach (no ammonia), let sit in covered container outside for a while. (Maybe I'll open the letter and let it sit in bleach fumes for a while also, if I am concerned of it's source.) Then lightly shoot down mail with water to remove bleach and of course wash my hands. I think all this will occur outside in my driveway away from my house.

By the way, there is a product I think called, Jo Max, which is supposed to increase the strength of bleach. I used it to remove the mildew from my homes.

Thanks, Kimi, for tip on the P100 mask and bleach. Since I may be using this mask for a while, I got a $10 non-disposable mask to which I can attach $3 P100 grade filters. I think I can also attach some higher grade filters ($16) to this mask but the $3 P100 grade filters will do for now.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: OT on 2001-10-27 20:13 ]</font>

[Kimi]

Hey, OT, FYI, I’m not sure about the effectiveness of bleach. I’ve heard that it works to some degree in one source, but in another I heard that it is not a guarantee.

Perhaps if there is ample supply (and of course safe), the public should be allowed to purchase and use the disinfectant that the professionals use.

[independent]

On 2001-10-27 19:19, 42 wrote:
Folks, this is only round 2 in the war of terrorism. We're bound to see things in the next few months/years that will make 9/11 and the anthrax threats seem like a walk in the park. If we're going to last for the duration, we need to find a way to get better control over our panic buttons.


42 is correct.

We kill about 800 people per week (or 41,000 per year) with motor vehicles in the US, but we aren't "terrified" about getting into cars. We know that those are big numbers, but we've got a big country. 99.98% of us won't die in traffic this year.

Considering the terrorists, it looks like they are going after "high profile" targets so far. I'm pretty sure that I'm not one of them.

I'll read about anthrax to have some idea of how big the risk really is, and what to do if I've been exposed, but otherwise I plan to just get on with my life.

[Anonymous]

I caught the flu this week. While I am far away from any anthax source, it did cause me to wonder. (Although inhalation anthrax has flu-like symptoms, there is one noticable difference: lack of phlegm.)

I have heard that you can microwave your mail, too. I do not know how long is necessary.

[an2001on]

It's an interesting idea. I read that the radiation kills anthrax bacteria and USPS wants to install machines to do exactly that with al the mail before it's processed.

Microwaving it might have similar effect. On the other hand, if it doesnt work, you'd be placing the source of infection right where you put the food (probably, not the best idea).

[Laocoön]

The "Real" Deal about Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Attacks

Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert.

Lesson number one: In the mid 1990's there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand dead people
per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too). Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!)! These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die. This is far less scary than the media and their "Experts," make it sound.

Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not weapons of mass destruction. Instead, they are "Area denial", and terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk. That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk; soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear.

These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill/injure, and that defines when/how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. So, a chemical attack will have it's best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise/sunset. Also,
being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin - too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted.

What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade agents and equipment so you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use.

We'll start by talking about nerve agents. You have these in your house, plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous system uses to make your body function. It can harm you if you get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it. If you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably gonna live. The military's antidote for all nerve agents is atropine and pralidoxime chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up. Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm. Listed below are the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning.

Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have pinpointed pupils), Runny nose, Excessive saliva or drooling, Difficulty breathing, Tightness in chest, Nausea, Stomach cramps, Twitching of exposed skin where a liquid just got on you.

If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too?

Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity, or camphor where it shouldn't be?

If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head up wind, or, outside.

Fresh air is the best "right now antidote". If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Kayro syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and away from yourself with anything disposable. This stuff works based on your body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the ground for while. Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by putting space between you and the attack.

Blood agents are cyanide or arsine which effect your blood's ability to provide oxygen to your tissue. The scenario for attack would be the same as nerve agent. Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and folks around there getting woozy/falling down. The telltale smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be. The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails rapid breathing. The military's antidote is amyl nitride and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your body working for five minutes till the toxins are used up. Fresh air is the your best individual chance.

Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so nasty that nobody wants to even handle it let alone use it. It's almost impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours. The attack scenario is also limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on spreading. It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy.

Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial chemical spills); they are intended to make you panic, to terrorize you, to herd you like sheep to the wolves. If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind, or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the stuff to you, and on you. You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks. Your odds get better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock-out-punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life. The odds are really on your side.

Nuclear bombs. These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth. The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and radiation. If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the ground! The heat will be over a second. Then there will be two blast waves, one out going, and one on it's way back. Don't stand up to see what happened after the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full minutes.

These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities. If you live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of radiation, you'll probably live for a very long time. Radiation will not create fifty foot tall women, or giant ants and grass hoppers the size of tanks. These will be at the most 1 kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT.

Here's the real deal, flying debris and radiation will kill a lot of exposed (not all!) people within a half mile of the blast. Under perfect conditions this is about a half mile circle of death and destruction, but, when it's done it's done. EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say what and how far but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it, all will be out of order.

There are lots of kinds of radiation, you only need to worry about three, the others you have lived with for years. You need to worry about "Ionizing radiation", these are little sub atomic particles that go whizzing along at the speed of light. They hit individual cells in your body, kill the nucleus and keep on going. That's how you get radiation poisoning, you have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you. It's the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger area gets radiated. The good news is you don't have to just sit there and take it, and there's lots you can do rather than panic. First; your skin will stop alpha particles, a page of a news paper or your clothing will stop beta particles, you just gotta try and avoid inhaling dust that's contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things and you'll be generally safe from them.

Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my brain hurt) and they create the same damage as alpha and beta particles only they keep going and kill lots of cells as they go all the way through your body. It takes a lot to stop these things, lots of dense material, on the other hand it takes a lot of this to kill you.

Your defense is as always to not panic. Basic hygiene and normal preparation are your friends. All canned or frozen food is safe to eat. The radiation poisoning will not affect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK if there's no dust on them (rinse em off if there is). If you don't have running water and you need to collect rain water or use water from wherever, just let it sit for thirty minutes and skim off the water gently from the top. The dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be used for the toilet which will still work if you have a bucket of water to pour in the tank.

Finally there's biological warfare. There's not much to cover here. Basic personal hygiene and sanitation will take you further than a million doctors. Wash your hands often, don't share drinks, food, sloppy kisses, etc., ... with strangers. Keep your garbage can with a tight lid on it, don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddie pools) laying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room. This stuff is carried by vectors, that is bugs, rodents, and contaminated material. If biological warfare is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right? If you're clean of person and home you eat well and are active you're gonna live.

Overall preparation for any terrorist attack is the same as you'd take for a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one. I know this stuff and I'm not getting one and I told my Mom to bother with one either (how's that for confidence). We have a week's worth of cash, several days worth of canned goods and plenty of soap and water. We don't leave stuff out to attract bugs or rodents so we don't have them. These people can't conceive a nation this big with this much resources. These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we don't run around like sheep they won't use this stuff after they find out it's no fun. The government is going nuts over this stuff because they have to protect every inch of America. You've only gotta protect yourself, and by doing that, you help the country.

Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything I wrote here and you can think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best. This letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest number of situations. If you don't like my work, don't nit pick, just sit down and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around three pages long yourself. This is how we the people of the United States can rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror.

SFC Red Thomas (Ret), Armor Master Gunner, Mesa, AZ

Unlimited reproduction and distribution is authorized. Just give me credit for my work, and, keep in context.

[42]

On 2001-10-27 20:06, OT wrote: I don’t think someone should be ridiculed for trying to think of ideas, like Kimi is.
You're right. I apologize.

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Lao, (or anyone), is there a web address where I can find that article?

[Laocoön]

Don't know. I got it via email from someone in the Army. I suspect (based on other things I've seen in similar emails) that it is absolutely as informal as it seems -- some Army guy decided to disseminate via email something that he happened to know a bit about, and that might be helpful to other people. An earlier email from the same network detailed an officer's calming down of the people at a PX in Germany who were concerned about white powder in the baking goods section...

[The Drunken Actuary]

This thread is awesome.

[FattyMcGee]

On 2001-10-27 20:06, OT wrote: I don’t think someone should be ridiculed for trying to think of ideas, like Kimi is. You're right. I apologize.
Man, this board used to be a whole lot more civil.

And a whole lot more dull.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Man, this board used to be a whole lot more civil.

And a whole lot more dull.

Everything went downhill when 42 left.

[2pac Shakur]

Is there even any effort to find out who is responsible for the anthrax attack?

[The Drunken Actuary]

Is there even any effort to find out who is responsible for the anthrax attack?

There's probably some semi-retired, career-long civil servant assigned to the case. He's got a cubicle in some government office in NY somewhere, in the basement, next to the guy looking for OJ's victims' real killers.

[2pac Shakur]

Seriously. If you flagwaverz believe that was some terrorist group that did that, shouldn't we be worried about not knowing who it was? Or do you just worry about Iran?

[bloodninja]

Anthrax went downhill after State of Euphoria.