Where are the Budget Hawks?

[Jack]

How are we going to finance the reconstruction of the Gulf Coast, the war in Iraq, and the expansion of medicare? Where are the angry voices? Am I the only one worried?

[Moe Szyslak]

How are we going to finance the reconstruction of the Gulf Coast, the war in Iraq, and the expansion of medicare? Where are the angry voices? Am I the only one worried?We borrow more. Duh.

[SamTheEagle]

Maybe President Bush can get American Express to increase his limit.

[Titania]

How are we going to finance the reconstruction of the Gulf Coast, the war in Iraq, and the expansion of medicare? Where are the angry voices? Am I the only one worried?
No.

My initial reaction...

It's one thing for the federal goverment to help provide basic living needs for people in such times, but why are they committing to rebuilding?

I understand that New Orleans is a national treasure in terms of historical and cultural value...but the historic neighborhoods were not the devastated ones...these lower-income areas by the lake are all recently "reclaimed" (not for long, apparently). What's to say this isn't going to happen again?

I think that the federal government's role in the rebuilding effort should be:

1) temporaray assistance for displaced residents ie food, water, shelter, etc.
2) Infrastructure - levy repair and improvement.

Let insurance dollars and private development pay for rebuilding these neighborhoods, if they should even be rebuilt at all.

[EweTupper]

How are we going to finance the reconstruction of the Gulf Coast, the war in Iraq, and the expansion of medicare? Where are the angry voices? Am I the only one worried?No, you're not the only one worried. It would be really nice to have a congressional election, right about now.

[Mayor Quimby]

Am I the only person that thinks the word "conservative" has completely lost its original, intended meaning? (Dumb question, of course I'm not.)

[MountainHawk]

It's brutal. This country has completely lost its sense of direction and responsibility.

[Mark Cavazos]

Let insurance dollars and private development pay for rebuilding these neighborhoods, if they should even be rebuilt at all.

From what I understand, flood insurance is only underwritten by the federal government.

[Kaput Shakur]

Can people please stop calling Bush a conservative now? He's a Republican, but he's no conservative.

[Titania]

Where are all the fiscal conservatives?

I almost miss Newt Gingrich!!

[SamTheEagle]

Where are all the fiscal conservatives?

I almost miss Newt Gingrich!!


Why wouldn't you miss Newt Gingrich? He was the saving grace of Clinton's presidency, imo.

[Real American Hero]

From what I understand, flood insurance is only underwritten by the federal government.
With a premium. If rates are inadequate, that should be addressed. However, tens or hundreds of billions of general revenue dollars should not be poured into rebuilding without a clear national interest. And providing a home to the best Mardi Gras party in the country is not a compelling national interest.

[Titania]

And providing a home to the best Mardi Gras party in the country is not a compelling national interest.
But the home of Mardi Gras is still intact!! That's not the part they need to spend $200B rebuilding.

[HangerAngler]

Rebuilding New Orleans is brainless. I'm actually pissed, and I rarely get pissed. He doesn't have to win an election, so why the heck is he trying to do this? Second terms are when you're supposed to do all the things that are good for the country but not for reelection.

[Real American Hero]

But the home of Mardi Gras is still intact!! That's not the part they need to spend $200B rebuilding.
Hooray. But I'm still waiting to hear a decent reason to spend dime one on rebuilding.

[HangerAngler]

Hooray. But I'm still waiting to hear a decent reason to spend dime one on rebuilding.

Same here, with the qualification that it is for rebuilding non-port-related areas or other areas that don't affect our infrastructure.

Don't even start with the crap like "the people that work at the port need hotels, and those hotels need employees, and those employees need stores, churches, video stores, and hair salons. Let the cost of private rebuilding determine how bad all of those things are needed. Then charge adequate premiums for flood insurance.

[Titania]

Hooray. But I'm still waiting to hear a decent reason to spend dime one on rebuilding.
Well, you're not going to get one from me. I have no idea what the administration is smoking.

[SamTheEagle]

Well, you're not going to get one from me. I have no idea what the administration is smoking.

They're high on compassion!

[Real American Hero]

Well, you're not going to get one from me. I have no idea what the administration is smoking.
Wasn't expecting one. Your first post demonstrated quite well your full conversion to the team.

[Titania]

Wasn't expecting one. Your first post demonstrated quite well your full conversion to the team.
:oops: Oh. Sorry. I get a little worked up sometimes.

[HangerAngler]

:oops: Oh. Sorry. I get a little worked up sometimes.
Don't we know it.

[Halfmoon]

When someone doesn't do the work themselves, then blames those trying to help to recover from their original blunder, isn't the best medicine to get control out of that person's hands. Sorry New Orleans, but if you can't handle it, get out of the way!

I don't like the idea of more federal gov't in local/state issues but if these buffoons need to have someone do it right, then so be it. Maybe you luck out and don't have to spend as much on the programs at the federal level because local gov't finally steps up when they realize they're losing control to the feds.

[Westley]

Can people please stop calling Bush a conservative now? He's a Republican, but he's no conservative.
He is a social conservative.

I haven't heard anybody sane call him a fiscal conservative in a long time.

[Moe Szyslak]

The sad thing with this is that, for New Orleans, Katrina wasn't even the "big one" It was a cat-4 storm that moved just east. As bad as it was, it could have been much worse.

I would think that there is quite a bit of salvage value left in the downtown area, but for all the low-lying suburbs...nope. Enact ordinances, do whatever it takes to force residences above the first floor. Limit rebuilding to the higher ground in the area that only saw a few feet of flooding, and not 10-20 feet.

I think the government should rebuild the infrastructure, but that is it.

[Moe Szyslak]

I haven't heard anybody sane call him a fiscal conservative in a long time.Except when it is implied daily that he is one because a dem would be worse...

[Double High C]

Jeff Flake and 10 Other GOP Reps are the apparent Budget Hawks (http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2005/09/05/daily45.html)

[SamTheEagle]

Flake for president!

[Wally]

He is a social conservative.

I haven't heard anybody sane call him a fiscal conservative in a long time.
The opposite, in that regard, to Clinton, who was a fiscal conservative and moderate to liberal on social matters.

I think the basic difference is the ability to ask the nation for a shared sacrifice for the common good. A war, an unprecedented natural disaster, or a record budget deficit BY ITSELF should be enough for an average leader to step up to the plate and ask for shared sacrifice. In my opinion, a president who cannot take that step in light of all three of those events is no excuse for a leader. Rather, he is nothing but a puppet for the Christian Coalition and the corporate leaders, not necessarily in that order.

[Westley]

The opposite, in that regard, to Clinton, who was a fiscal conservative and moderate to liberal on social matters.:lolup:

Are you familiar with the concept of nationalized healthcare?

[Wally]

:lolup:

Are you familiar with the concept of nationalized healthcare?
I am. Under current policy, the US's largest employer has the taxpayers provide health insurance to most of its employees. That, of course, is Walmart, and it got to be so large & successful in part by offloading that cost to us. Naturally, as we do nothing, other companies will have to follow suit to compete.

We're moving toward National Health Insurance by default. Fiscal conservative that I am, I think we could do so in a better way, and wish our governement would revisit the issue. Naturally, I think our leaders should have the integrity to ask us to pay for the healthcare as opposed to further running up the deficit.

[Moe Szyslak]

:lolup:

Are you familiar with the concept of nationalized healthcare?Blame Canada!

[Titania]

Under current policy, the US's largest employer has the taxpayers provide health insurance to most of its employees. That, of course, is Walmart, and it got to be so large & successful in part by offloading that cost to us. Can you elaborate?

Is this a reference to policy of paying employees such that they're eligble for Medicaid?

[Westley]

I am. Under current policy, the US's largest employer has the taxpayers provide health insurance to most of its employees. That, of course, is Walmart, and it got to be so large & successful in part by offloading that cost to us. Naturally, as we do nothing, other companies will have to follow suit to compete.

We're moving toward National Health Insurance by default. Fiscal conservative that I am, I think we could do so in a better way, and wish our governement would revisit the issue. Naturally, I think our leaders should have the integrity to ask us to pay for the healthcare as opposed to further running up the deficit.

To correct just a few of your mistakes:
The US's largest employer is the federal government.
If you were a fiscal conservative, you would prefer that we didn't nationalize healthcare.
None of this has anything to do with your ridiculous contention that Clinton was a fiscal conservative.

[Colymbosathon ecplecticos]

If you were a fiscal conservative, you would prefer that we didn't nationalize healthcare.

No, a fiscal conservative would mearly ask that if it were nationalized it be paid for with current taxes since it is an on-going expense (instead of a one-time shock) instead of debt.

[Wally]

To correct just a few of your mistakes:
The US's largest employer is the federal government.
Good point. Obviously, I was talking about private sector employers. A corrected statement would have been that the US's largest employer has the taxpayers pay for health insurance for ALL of its employees.
If you were a fiscal conservative, you would prefer that we didn't nationalize healthcare.
As a fiscal conservative, I believe healthcare should be provided in the most efficient manner possible, which is a long shot from the current status quo.
None of this has anything to do with your ridiculous contention that Clinton was a fiscal conservative.
President Clinton had the guts to ask the country to pay higher taxes for the long term good. He got the increase passed without a single Republican vote in either the house or senate. The results speak for themselves - a balanced budget & a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to pay off the entire national debt in just a few years (obviously squandered by current leaders.) For my money, that's fiscally conservative.

[Westley]

No, a fiscal conservative would mearly ask that if it were nationalized it be paid for with current taxes since it is an on-going expense (instead of a one-time shock) instead of debt.
I think your opinion of the meaning of "fiscal conservative" is wildly at odds with any current political thinking. As stated, you would be calling a communist government "fiscally conservative".:lolup:

[Colymbosathon ecplecticos]

A "fiscal conservative" is one that wants the government to not use debt to pay for on-going expenses, look it up.

Yes, a communist government could be fiscally conservative. Few are (or were), but it would be possible.

[PK]

President Clinton had the guts to ask the country to pay higher taxes for the long term good. He got the increase passed without a single Republican vote in either the house or senate. The results speak for themselves - The immediate ousting at the next election of the Democratic majority in the House followed shortly by the ousting of the Democratic majority in the Senate.I changed your quote to what I think really happened.

[MNBridge]

I think the government should rebuild the infrastructure, but that is it.

Which one?

Not Federal.

[Eimon Gnome]

I think your opinion of the meaning of "fiscal conservative" is wildly at odds with any current political thinking. As stated, you would be calling a communist government "fiscally conservative".:lolup:

Nope. Dead wrong. Not close.

Colymbo E has it right.

[Kaput Shakur]

Flake for president!

I don't think Perot is interested in the position any more.

[Treadmill]

To correct just a few of your mistakes:
The US's largest employer is the federal government.
If you were a fiscal conservative, you would prefer that we didn't nationalize healthcare.
None of this has anything to do with your ridiculous contention that Clinton was a fiscal conservative.
I am a fiscal conservative, and for me the most important result is a balanced budget. To me, collecting $100 in taxes and spending $100 is the same as collecting $200 in taxes and spending $200. I don't care about the scale so much as I do about the net result. Clinton balanced the budget, so in my eyes he is a fiscal conservative.

Bush, on the other hand, is an outrageously liberal spender.

[Westley]

A "fiscal conservative" is one that wants the government to not use debt to pay for on-going expenses, look it up.
I did. You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservative

[Eimon Gnome]

I did. You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservative


"Fiscal conservatism is the stance that the government must "live within its means". Above all, fiscal conservatives oppose excessive government debt; this belief in balanced budgets tends to be coupled with a belief that government welfare programs should be narrowly tailored and that tax rates should be low, which implies relatively small government institutions.
"


From YOUR link, mate.

[MNBridge]

"Fiscal conservatism is the stance that the government must "live within its means". Above all, fiscal conservatives oppose excessive government debt; this belief in balanced budgets tends to be coupled with a belief that government welfare programs should be narrowly tailored and that tax rates should be low, which implies relatively small government institutions.
"


From YOUR link, mate.

I agree Communism could fall into the strict definition posted here but .....
the bolded area indicates to me many people would not consider Communism to meet the criteria.

Now if you want to argue the word 'tends' you have WAY to much time on your hands.

Yes Communism could be considered 'Fiscally Conservative' but I would not look at it that way nor would many other people.

If you want to because you KNOW the real definition and feel the need to feel smart and show that you do, feel free. But I'm guessing it won't take much time for it to not matter if you know the true definition or not, as I think people may no longer find talking to you all that interesting.

[2pac Shakur]

I am a fiscal conservative, and for me the most important result is a balanced budget. To me, collecting $100 in taxes and spending $100 is the same as collecting $200 in taxes and spending $200. I don't care about the scale so much as I do about the net result. Clinton balanced the budget, so in my eyes he is a fiscal conservative.

Bush, on the other hand, is an outrageously liberal spender.

Here's the way to balance the budget:
Limit expenditures to previous year's tax revenues.
Take whatever budget Congress and the President agree upon - it can be $100trillion for all I care. Then, when the previous year's revenues are tallied, entire budget gets ratioed by prv. year's revenues/submitted total budget.
If you have a growing economy, it should actually result in surpluses.

So really, the only thing Congress argues about is pieces of the pie. Don't let them detemine the size of the pie.

[SamTheEagle]

Here's the way to balance the budget:
Limit expenditures to previous year's tax revenues.
Take whatever budget Congress and the President agree upon - it can be $100trillion for all I care. Then, when the previous year's revenues are tallied, entire budget gets ratioed by prv. year's revenues/submitted total budget.
If you have a growing economy, it should actually result in surpluses.

So really, the only thing Congress argues about is pieces of the pie. Don't let them detemine the size of the pie.


Where have you been all my life? :love: :kiss:

[HangerAngler]

As a fiscal conservative, I believe healthcare should be provided in the most efficient manner possible, which is a long shot from the current status quo.


What is the main problem with the following situation for healthcare [and health insurance]...?

-regulate it so that only individual direct pay policies are allowed (elmiinate group business)
-have 1 to 4 benefit designs that people can choose from

[Westley]

"Fiscal conservatism is the stance that the government must "live within its means". Above all, fiscal conservatives oppose excessive government debt; this belief in balanced budgets tends to be coupled with a belief that government welfare programs should be narrowly tailored and that tax rates should be low, which implies relatively small government institutions.
"


From YOUR link, mate.

1 I honestly looked for that, and can't find it anywhere in my link.
2 CE said that a fiscal conservative would be fine with nationalized healthcare, so long as it was funded. Your post shows how ridiculous that statement is. And, you said he's right, so you're wrong, too. Again.

[Real American Hero]

Here's the way to balance the budget:
Limit expenditures to previous year's tax revenues.
Take whatever budget Congress and the President agree upon - it can be $100trillion for all I care. Then, when the previous year's revenues are tallied, entire budget gets ratioed by prv. year's revenues/submitted total budget.
If you have a growing economy, it should actually result in surpluses.

So really, the only thing Congress argues about is pieces of the pie. Don't let them detemine the size of the pie.
Tupe must be smokin' early today, 'cause that's the sanest post he's made in a good long time.

[Colymbosathon ecplecticos]

1 I honestly looked for that, and can't find it anywhere in my link.

Yes, the link changed. That's one problem with public encyclopedia. Look at a cached copy to see his quote.
2 CE said that a fiscal conservative would be fine with nationalized healthcare, so long as it was funded.

I am a fiscal conservative and, if it was properly funded, I would have no problems with it from a fiscal point of view.

You appear to be confusing "fiscal conservative" with what is called "economic conservative".

[Westley]

I am a fiscal conservative and, if it was properly funded, I would have no problems with it from a fiscal point of view.

"Fiscal conservatism is the stance that the government must "live within its means". Above all, fiscal conservatives oppose excessive government debt; this belief in balanced budgets tends to be coupled with a belief that government welfare programs should be narrowly tailored and that tax rates should be low, which implies relatively small government institutions.
"

You appear to be confusing "repeating yourself" with "making an argument".

[Colymbosathon ecplecticos]

Above all, fiscal conservatives oppose excessive government debt;

That's essentially what I said the definition was.

... this belief in balanced budgets tends to be coupled with a belief that government welfare programs should be narrowly tailored and that tax rates should be low, which implies relatively small government institutions.

Many fiscal conservatives may believe this, but it is not part of being fiscally conservative.

If you want to use a non-standard definition go ahead, but people will misunderstand what you say.

[Westley]

Many fiscal conservatives may believe this, but it is not part of being fiscally conservative.

Right. The part where it was included in the definition is just totally random. Nobody actually believes that that is associated with being a fiscal conservative. It was a typo, putting that in the definition.

[Eimon Gnome]

CE, I don't think he is going to let you and me be fiscally conservative. Perhaps we should settle for being "financially responsible", and call it a day.

[Westley]

CE, I don't think he is going to let you and me be fiscally conservative. Perhaps we should settle for being "financially responsible", and call it a day.

:lol: Good one! I would say that's a better description. JMHO.