NHL 2005-2006: The thread

[Happy Hour]

For?
Details not known yet...

[MountainHawk]

Knowing the Blues, it'll be for Ron Francis.

[Happy Hour]

Knowing the Blues, it'll be for Ron Francis.
Not this year, it will be someone with less than 100 total games in the NHL.

[MountainHawk]

Not this year, it will be someone with less than 100 total games in the NHL.

:oyh:

[Happy Hour]

:oyh:
:oops:

Well, in any case, they have made it clear they want no part in having an experiences pricey veteran on the team.

[Happy Hour]

The Carolina Hurricanes have acquired Doug Weight and 27-year-old Finnish forward Erkki Rajamaki from the St. Louis Blues.

In exchange, Carolina gave to the Blues three draft picks and three players. The package includes:
- Carolina's first-round pick in 2006.
- Toronto's fourth-round pick in 2006, previously acquired by the Hurricanes.
- Chicago's fourth-round pick in 2007, previously acquired by the Hurricanes.
- Tough guy forward Jesse Boulerice, a 27-year-old eighth-year pro
- Forward Mike Zigomanis, a 25-year-old fifth-year pro
- Magnus Kahnberg, 25, an unsigned Carolina draftee from Sweden who will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1

[seabass]

Edit: Too slow...

[MountainHawk]

Holy bejesus! For Doug Weight?

[Irish Blues]

:guitarwo: Sweet! A 1st this year and a pair of draft picks, and we still have Drake, Weinrich and McAmmond to offer around the league!

OK...so we got Boulerice (who probably got thrown in to help Carolina with payroll), and Zigomanis may be a stiff - but that's a lot better than what most people thought we'd get.

[Happy Hour]

:guitarwo: Sweet! A 1st this year and a pair of draft picks, and we still have Drake, Weinrich and McAmmond to offer around the league!

I think Weinrich likely has a negative value.

[Happy Hour]

Holy bejesus! For Doug Weight?
He does have 40+ points playing for the worst team in the league...

[MountainHawk]

He's a top 6 forward, for sure ... but he's not tremendous. Seems like too high a price to me.

[seabass]

:guitarwo: Sweet! A 1st this year and a pair of draft picks, and we still have Drake, Weinrich and McAmmond to offer around the league!

OK...so we got Boulerice (who probably got thrown in to help Carolina with payroll), and Zigomanis may be a stiff - but that's a lot better than what most people thought we'd get.

Definitely. I guess Carolina figured that since 2 of the 3 picks are from other teams, it wasn't that bad for them, but the Blues made out pretty good.

[Irish Blues]

I think Weinrich likely has a negative value.
If he brought back a used moist towelette, I'd take it.

That being said, if Mark Rycroft could bring back a half-empty can of 60-year old Stag beer in a trade, I'd take it just to get rid of him.

[MountainHawk]

Weinrich for Therien and Brashear? ;)

[Irish Blues]

Weinrich for Therien and Brashear? ;)
That's too much salary coming back at the moment. (Of course, the team is rumored to be sold shortly.)

Try Weinrich for Therien and one of the 7 3rd-round picks you've got. I'd say a 5th, but getting rid of Therien should be worth another 2 rounds to the Flyers.

[MountainHawk]

I don't know how, but Flyers 3 - Rangers 2 in OT. Big win. TBC on Saturday. :D

[Wannabe Actuary]

sad ending for the rangers...out to a 2-0 lead in the game and then they couldn't finish it...at least they managed a point out of it, only losing another point to the flyers.
rangers 1-0-2 against the flyers
flyers 2-1-0 against the rangers

[seabass]

Tim Thomas just posted a 44 shot shutout against Ottawa, two days after getting hit with 51 shots against the Isles. Yikes.

[Mike and Maddog]

I don't know how, but Flyers 3 - Rangers 2 in OT. Big win. TBC on Saturday. :D


Don't know how? I thought you were the know it all on hockey?

Flyers squeaked by, but rangers get a point. Remains to be seen if it was a reaction to the spanking that tampa gave them, before they resort to losing again.


Interesting stat: New York hasn't shut out Philadelphia in 48 games, dating to Jan. 13, 1996.

[DoctorNo]

Don't know how? I thought you were the know it all on hockey?

He knows a lot of hockey, to be sure, but he also knows something about hyperbole. Check into it!

[MountainHawk]

Trivia question:

Name the only mother and son pair to both have their name on the Stanley Cup.

(Hint: Doctor No may have an advantage on this.)

[DoctorNo]

I'll recuse myself from the competition for a few hours - it's a good question, though!

[Uncle Larry]

Bobby and Brett Hull?

[Irish Blues]

Bobby and Brett Hull?
:lolup: I didn't realize Brett was Bobby's mom.

[MountainHawk]

:lolup: I didn't realize Brett was Bobby's mom.

:lolup:

[DoctorNo]

Name the only mother and son pair to both have their name on the Stanley Cup.

Alright, it's been a few hours, but in case anyone is still playing, I'll post my answer here (http://math.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/answer.html) instead of to the forum.

A good question!

[Irish Blues]

The Blues are recalling Patrick Lalime - likely to try and get off the hook for 1/2 of his salary more than they're really interested in bringing him back onto the roster.

[MountainHawk]

Alright, it's been a few hours, but in case anyone is still playing, I'll post my answer here (http://math.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/answer.html) instead of to the forum.

A good question!

You are correct.

[MountainHawk]

The Blues are recalling Patrick Lalime - likely to try and get off the hook for 1/2 of his salary more than they're really interested in bringing him back onto the roster.
Is that a cap hit for just this year of 1/2 his salary, or for the remainder of the contract?

[Irish Blues]

Is that a cap hit for just this year of 1/2 his salary, or for the remainder of the contract?
Both.







He's only signed for '05-06, if someone claims him they'll only take half the cap hit (his salary is $2.432 million, or about $940,000 right now) and the Blues will have to pay half the salary and take the other half of the cap hit.

Of course, I don't think the Blues are worried about taking half the cap hit at the moment.

[Irish Blues]

Buffalo beats Atlanta 5-2 to go to 4th in the East with 2 games. Ilya Kovalchuk gets busted yet again with an illegal stick, this time negating a Thrashers power play with Atlanta down 4-2 late in the 3rd and having a shot to possibly make a game of it.

Bob Hartley was so pissed, when Kovalchuk came back Hartley benched him for the remaining 2+ minutes of the game. "It's a matter of showing respect to the entire team, the organization and the fans," Hartley said. "I hope he'll learn from this."

Apparently the kid doesn't understand (nay, probably doesn't care) that there's a rule against having an illegal stick. I thought he had been busted more often this season, but somehow this was just his first illegal stick penalty. (He got nailed twice for diving in the first month.)

[MountainHawk]

If I'm opposing teams, I'm challenging his stick in the third period every single game, especially if Atlanta takes a penalty with him on the ice.

[seabass]

He doesn't care. I remember there was a fuss awhile ago when he gloated that he changed sticks in the third... hopefully the benching serves him enough notice not to do something like that again. If Atlanta wasn't in freefall and it was earlier in the season, I'd consider benching him some more the next game.

Other games: Carolina becomes only the 6th team in NHL history to notch 13 wins in a month, and made Theodore look pretty silly in the process. Isles get 3 straight wins for the second time this season, but Kevin Colley took a nasty crash headfirst into the boards, and somehow managed to get up from it.

[hardinda]

I was at the Sabres - Thrashers game.

Good road effort by the Sabres. Kovy taking an illegal stick penalty is classic. I think he made some comments about Kolalik of the Sabres when Kotalik took one earlier this year, on their western road swing.

In the paper this morning after being asked if he'll change to a legal stick, all Kovy said was "We'll See." ... LOL, He'll never learn.

Kovy also caused the Sabres 3rd goal. No effort after a rebound on a shorthanded break away by Hecht and Pomminville cleaned up the rebound. It really killed the Thrashers.

I also liked seeing 2k-3k Sabres fans at Phillips. Pretty impressive numbers that far away from home.

[MountainHawk]

Flyers-Sabres tomorrow night. I have to miss it, because I'm taking the g/f to Habs-Bruins. I'm going to assume it's a total dominating performance by the Flyers unless hardinda posts otherwise. :)

[hardinda]

Flyers-Sabres tomorrow night. I have to miss it, because I'm taking the g/f to Habs-Bruins. I'm going to assume it's a total dominating performance by the Sabres :)

I think you are correct (after fixing your post of course)

[MountainHawk]

You will post in that case. My guess is you will be strangely absent Friday if the Flyers dominate the game (well, now you won't, since I mentioned it).

[MountainHawk]

Standings on 2/1/2006:



Team W L OT Pts Win% AW% GF GPG GA GAA
Atlantic Division
PHI 31 13 8 70 .673 .608 179 3.44 165 3.15
NYR 29 15 8 66 .635 .573 165 3.15 131 2.52
NJD 26 20 6 58 .558 .504 149 2.87 151 2.90
NYI 23 25 3 49 .480 .434 152 2.98 182 3.57
PIT 12 30 10 34 .327 .295 145 2.79 207 3.98
Northeast Division
OTT 34 11 4 72 .735 .663 202 4.12 117 2.39
BUF 32 15 3 67 .670 .605 167 3.34 143 2.86
TOR 25 22 5 55 .529 .478 165 3.17 176 3.38
MTL 23 21 6 52 .520 .470 146 2.92 170 3.40
BOS 22 22 8 52 .500 .451 152 2.92 163 3.13
Southeast Division
CAR 37 11 4 78 .750 .677 201 3.87 158 3.04
TBY 28 21 4 60 .566 .511 157 2.96 151 2.85
ATL 23 24 6 52 .491 .443 181 3.42 188 3.55
FLA 20 25 8 48 .453 .409 137 2.58 165 3.11
WSH 18 28 5 41 .402 .363 145 2.84 195 3.82
Central Division
DET 34 13 5 73 .702 .634 187 3.60 135 2.60
NSH 31 14 6 68 .667 .602 163 3.20 149 2.92
CLB 20 30 2 42 .404 .365 129 2.48 187 3.60
CHI 17 28 6 40 .392 .354 131 2.57 175 3.43
STL 12 30 8 32 .320 .289 130 2.60 190 3.80
Northwest Division
CGY 30 16 6 66 .635 .573 141 2.71 133 2.56
VAN 30 18 5 65 .613 .554 181 3.42 163 3.08
COL 29 19 5 63 .594 .537 196 3.70 170 3.21
EDM 28 18 6 62 .596 .538 173 3.33 162 3.12
MIN 25 24 4 54 .509 .460 153 2.89 138 2.60
Pacific Division
DAL 35 15 2 72 .692 .625 170 3.27 136 2.62
LAK 30 21 4 64 .582 .525 186 3.38 177 3.22
ANA 24 17 10 58 .569 .513 149 2.92 142 2.78
PHX 26 25 3 55 .509 .460 159 2.94 172 3.19
SJS 23 19 7 53 .541 .488 150 3.06 150 3.06


Winning percentage is Points / (GP *2)
Adjusted winning percentage is Points / (GP * 2.215), because there has been an average of 2.215 points earned in the NHL per game played.

Team Statistics:


Top 5 Offenses:

1. OTT 4.12
2. CAR 3.87
3. COL 3.70
4. DET 3.60
5. PHI 3.44

Worst 5 Offenses:

1. CLB 2.48
2. CHI 2.57
3. FLA 2.58
4. STL 2.60
5. CGY 2.71

Top 5 Defenses:

1. OTT 2.39
2. NYR 2.52
3. CGY 2.56
4. DET 2.60
5. MIN 2.60

Worst 5 Defenses:

1. PIT 3.98
2. WSH 3.82
3. STL 3.80
4. CLB 3.60
5. NYI 3.57

Top 5 Power Plays:

1. DET 24.8%
2. BUF 21.8%
3. OTT 20.8%
4. COL 20.7%
5. TOR 20.5%

Worst 5 Power Plays:

1. CHI 13.0%
2. TBY 14.1%
3. WSH 14.2%
4. FLA 14.6%
5. CLB 14.9%

Top 5 Penalty Kills:

1. MIN 88.5%
2. DET 85.9%
3. BUF 85.6%
4. COL 85.2%
5. OTT 85.1%

Worst 5 Penalty Kills:

1. PIT 78.6%
2. ATL 79.1%
3. LAK 79.1%
4. WSH 79.3%
5. NYI 79.4%

Most Penalized (PIM per game)

1. CHI 20.10
2. ANA 19.24
3. OTT 18.85
4. PHX 18.81
5. LAK 18.80

Least Penalized (PIM per game)

1. TBY 10.87
2. NJD 11.69
3. SJS 12.88
4. CAR 13.52
5. PHI 13.54



Individual Statistics:



Goals

1. Kovalchuk 35
2. Ovechkin 34
Gagne 34
4. Jagr 33
Staal 33

Assists

1. Thornton 51
2. Forsberg 47
3. Savard 43
Jagr 43
5. Nagy 41
Straka 41


Points

1. Jagr 76
2. Alfredsson 70
3. Staal 69
4. Kovalchuk 68
Thornton 68

PIM

1. Avery 191
2. Witt 125
Fedoruk 125
4. Barnaby 123
5. Neil 113

Rookie Points

1. Ovechkin 65
2. Crosby 60
3. Svatos 46
4. Boyes 36
5. Vanek 33
Phaneuf 33


GAA

1. Hasek 1.97
2. Legace 2.09
3. Lundqvist 2.12
4. Fernandez 2.12
5. Kiprusoff 2.25

Save Percentage

1. Hasek 93.0%
2. Lundqvist 92.6%
3. Fernandez 92.6%
4. Miller 92.4%
5. Vokoun 91.7%



League Wide Stats

Goals per game: 6.229
Points awarded per game: 2.214
Number of shutouts: 65
Number of OT games: 167
Number of shootouts: 85
Percentage of Games ending in regulation: 78.5%
Percentage of OT Games ending before shootout: 49.1%
Percentage of games ending in shootout: 10.9%

Shootout Statistics

Games in shootout: 85
Shots taken: 581
Goals scored: 198
Shootout save percentage: 65.9%

Penalty Statistics


Penalties per team per game
Mnth Min Maj Mis Tot
Oct 7.11 0.40 0.10 7.61
Nov 6.36 0.40 0.13 6.89
Dec 6.65 0.40 0.09 7.14
Jan 6.07 0.39 0.11 6.58


Penalties per game, Home team: 6.92
Penalties per game, road team: 7.14

[Mike and Maddog]

You will post in that case. My guess is you will be strangely absent Friday if the Flyers dominate the game (well, now you won't, since I mentioned it).

You know all about being strangely absent if the flyers don't dominate a game.

[Mike and Maddog]

Standings on 2/1/2006:



Team W L OT Pts Win% AW% GF GPG GA GAA
Atlantic Division
PHI 31 13 8 70 .673 .608 179 3.44 165 3.15
NYR 29 15 8 66 .635 .573 165 3.15 131 2.52
NJD 26 20 6 58 .558 .504 149 2.87 151 2.90
NYI 23 25 3 49 .480 .434 152 2.98 182 3.57
PIT 12 30 10 34 .327 .295 145 2.79 207 3.98
Northeast Division
OTT 34 11 4 72 .735 .663 202 4.12 117 2.39
BUF 32 15 3 67 .670 .605 167 3.34 143 2.86
TOR 25 22 5 55 .529 .478 165 3.17 176 3.38
MTL 23 21 6 52 .520 .470 146 2.92 170 3.40
BOS 22 22 8 52 .500 .451 152 2.92 163 3.13
Southeast Division
CAR 37 11 4 78 .750 .677 201 3.87 158 3.04
TBY 28 21 4 60 .566 .511 157 2.96 151 2.85
ATL 23 24 6 52 .491 .443 181 3.42 188 3.55
FLA 20 25 8 48 .453 .409 137 2.58 165 3.11
WSH 18 28 5 41 .402 .363 145 2.84 195 3.82
Central Division
DET 34 13 5 73 .702 .634 187 3.60 135 2.60
NSH 31 14 6 68 .667 .602 163 3.20 149 2.92
CLB 20 30 2 42 .404 .365 129 2.48 187 3.60
CHI 17 28 6 40 .392 .354 131 2.57 175 3.43
STL 12 30 8 32 .320 .289 130 2.60 190 3.80
Northwest Division
CGY 30 16 6 66 .635 .573 141 2.71 133 2.56
VAN 30 18 5 65 .613 .554 181 3.42 163 3.08
COL 29 19 5 63 .594 .537 196 3.70 170 3.21
EDM 28 18 6 62 .596 .538 173 3.33 162 3.12
MIN 25 24 4 54 .509 .460 153 2.89 138 2.60
Pacific Division
DAL 35 15 2 72 .692 .625 170 3.27 136 2.62
LAK 30 21 4 64 .582 .525 186 3.38 177 3.22
ANA 24 17 10 58 .569 .513 149 2.92 142 2.78
PHX 26 25 3 55 .509 .460 159 2.94 172 3.19
SJS 23 19 7 53 .541 .488 150 3.06 150 3.06


Winning percentage is Points / (GP *2)
Adjusted winning percentage is Points / (GP * 2.215), because there has been an average of 2.215 points earned in the NHL per game played.

Team Statistics:


Top 5 Offenses:

1. OTT 4.12
2. CAR 3.87
3. COL 3.70
4. DET 3.60
5. PHI 3.44

Worst 5 Offenses:

1. CLB 2.48
2. CHI 2.57
3. FLA 2.58
4. STL 2.60
5. CGY 2.71

Top 5 Defenses:

1. OTT 2.39
2. NYR 2.52
3. CGY 2.56
4. DET 2.60
5. MIN 2.60

Worst 5 Defenses:

1. PIT 3.98
2. WSH 3.82
3. STL 3.80
4. CLB 3.60
5. NYI 3.57

Top 5 Power Plays:

1. DET 24.8%
2. BUF 21.8%
3. OTT 20.8%
4. COL 20.7%
5. TOR 20.5%

Worst 5 Power Plays:

1. CHI 13.0%
2. TBY 14.1%
3. WSH 14.2%
4. FLA 14.6%
5. CLB 14.9%

Top 5 Penalty Kills:

1. MIN 88.5%
2. DET 85.9%
3. BUF 85.6%
4. COL 85.2%
5. OTT 85.1%

Worst 5 Penalty Kills:

1. PIT 78.6%
2. ATL 79.1%
3. LAK 79.1%
4. WSH 79.3%
5. NYI 79.4%

Most Penalized (PIM per game)

1. CHI 20.10
2. ANA 19.24
3. OTT 18.85
4. PHX 18.81
5. LAK 18.80

Least Penalized (PIM per game)

1. TBY 10.87
2. NJD 11.69
3. SJS 12.88
4. CAR 13.52
5. PHI 13.54



Individual Statistics:



Goals

1. Kovalchuk 35
2. Ovechkin 34
Gagne 34
4. Jagr 33
Staal 33

Assists

1. Thornton 51
2. Forsberg 47
3. Savard 43
Jagr 43
5. Nagy 41
Straka 41


Points

1. Jagr 76
2. Alfredsson 70
3. Staal 69
4. Kovalchuk 68
Thornton 68

PIM

1. Avery 191
2. Witt 125
Fedoruk 125
4. Barnaby 123
5. Neil 113

Rookie Points

1. Ovechkin 65
2. Crosby 60
3. Svatos 46
4. Boyes 36
5. Vanek 33
Phaneuf 33


GAA

1. Hasek 1.97
2. Legace 2.09
3. Lundqvist 2.12
4. Fernandez 2.12
5. Kiprusoff 2.25

Save Percentage

1. Hasek 93.0%
2. Lundqvist 92.6%
3. Fernandez 92.6%
4. Miller 92.4%
5. Vokoun 91.7%



League Wide Stats

Goals per game: 6.229
Points awarded per game: 2.214
Number of shutouts: 65
Number of OT games: 167
Number of shootouts: 85
Percentage of Games ending in regulation: 78.5%
Percentage of OT Games ending before shootout: 49.1%
Percentage of games ending in shootout: 10.9%

Shootout Statistics

Games in shootout: 85
Shots taken: 581
Goals scored: 198
Shootout save percentage: 65.9%

Penalty Statistics


Penalties per team per game
Mnth Min Maj Mis Tot
Oct 7.11 0.40 0.10 7.61
Nov 6.36 0.40 0.13 6.89
Dec 6.65 0.40 0.09 7.14
Jan 6.07 0.39 0.11 6.58


Penalties per game, Home team: 6.92
Penalties per game, road team: 7.14


Leave it to MH to come up with a new definition of winning percentage to make his team look better than they really are.

Winning percentage is #wins / games played. If you want to include points for losing, call it something else.

[MountainHawk]

Calder in Svatos sights? (http://www.nhl.com/features/spotlight/svatos020106.html) asks NHL.com.

[MountainHawk]

BTW ... the next stats and statistics update will be 2/28 after the Olympics break ... I have something else planned for during the Olympics. :)

[Irish Blues]

Winning percentage is #wins / games played. If you want to include points for losing, call it something else.
That's called "point percentage", which I maintain is a completely bogus stat as it's really not useful for much else except propping up one team when compared to another.

The penalties by month was *quite* interesting, though.

[MountainHawk]

Why is Points won / Points possible a bogus percentage?

Is what I call Adj. Winning percentage any better it your opinion, which is essentially average points per game won / average points per game awarded?

[seabass]

Leave it to brokeback to come up with a new definition of winning percentage to make his team look better than they really are.

Winning percentage is #wins / games played. If you want to include points for losing, call it something else.

Tell that to NHL.com too, while you're at it.

[hardinda]

You will post in that case. My guess is you will be strangely absent Friday if the Flyers dominate the game (well, now you won't, since I mentioned it).

I'll tell you right now I will be strangely absent Friday ... got a home inspection on the new house we are buying and then headed to Florida for the weekend.

[Uncle Larry]

I'll tell you right now I will be strangely absent Friday ... got a home inspection on the new house we are buying and then headed to Florida for the weekend.How "convenient"

[MountainHawk]

I'll tell you right now I will be strangely absent Friday ... got a home inspection on the new house we are buying and then headed to Florida for the weekend.

Damn ... there goes my indicator of how the game was. Good luck with the inspection.

[Patience]

so, as a Ranger fan who am I rooting for in that game?

[Uncle Larry]

Damn ... there goes my indicator of how the game was. Good luck with the inspection.Don't worry, if the Flyers dominate Mike and Maddog won't show up, if it's close he will. I'd say it's a much more reliable indicator than Hrdina anyway. M&M is as predictible as you could possibly hope for. It's pretty pathetic actually.

[hardinda]

so, as a Ranger fan who am I rooting for in that game?

Lots of injuries?

[MountainHawk]

Lots of injuries?

Please don't joke about that.

[Patience]

This just in: Kasparaitis traded to Flyers

[MountainHawk]

This just in: Kasparaitis traded to Flyers

Please don't joke about this either.

[hardinda]

This just in: Kasparaitis traded to Flyers

Nah, it'll be more fun to get him back when we play the Rangers again ... philly has enough goonish players.

[Uncle Larry]

Nah, it'll be more fun to get him back when we play the Rangers again ... philly has enough goonish players.I don't know, watching the Sabres and the Rangers get into a rough game would be like watching two 13 year old girls pull each others hair. Neither team exactly strikes fear into their opponents.

[MountainHawk]

Nah, it'll be more fun to get him back when we play the Rangers again ... philly has enough goonish players.

Name three.

[Mike and Maddog]

Tell that to NHL.com too, while you're at it.

Why, do they include winning percentage in their standings? I don't think so.

[Mike and Maddog]

Why is Points won / Points possible a bogus percentage?

Is what I call Adj. Winning percentage any better it your opinion, which is essentially average points per game won / average points per game awarded?

It's bogus when you call it "winning percentage".

[hardinda]

Name three.

Brashear and Hatcher ... Therien and Knuble combine as 1 ... there are 3 for ya.

[Mike and Maddog]

Don't worry, if the Flyers dominate Mike and Maddog won't show up, if it's close he will. I'd say it's a much more reliable indicator than Hrdina anyway. M&M is as predictible as you could possibly hope for. It's pretty pathetic actually.

Your bogus claims are pathetic. Unlike MH, I show up no matter how the flyers do. That's the predictable part.

[MountainHawk]

Knuble a goon :lol:

[hardinda]

Knuble a goon :lol:

Yeah, he only leads the team in PIM ... nah ... he could never be a goon. Brashear could actually count as 3 himself ... come to think of it ... so could Hatcher, but nope ... Knuble leads the bunch in PIM.

[MountainHawk]

The vast majority of which are for goon-like behavior of holding or tripping.

I guess Afinogenov is a goon too ... he has more PIM than Hatcher.

[MountainHawk]

Kovalchuk has only 6 PIM less than Hatcher ... what a goon. And Savard has 16 more than any Flyers ... major goon!!!

[seabass]

Why, do they include winning percentage in their standings? I don't think so.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Stats/changeSortColumnAction&fetchKey=20062ALLAAAAll&sort=winningPct&viewName=summary

[hardinda]

Fine, take Knuble off your list for being "dumb" in his penalty taking .... you still have Brashear, Hatcher and Therien ... don't see much argument against them.

[Mike and Maddog]

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Stats/changeSortColumnAction&fetchKey=20062ALLAAAAll&sort=winningPct&viewName=summary

Standings? Here they are:

http://www.nhl.com/standings/index.html

[MountainHawk]

Therien doesn't have the skill required to be a goon.

[Uncle Larry]

Your bogus claims are pathetic. Unlike MH, I show up no matter how the flyers do. That's the predictable part.You didn't how up on the Flyers 8 game road winning streak until they lost one in Detroit. If the Flyers win big, you're nowhere to be found. Only show up if they lose or win a close game to a crap team.

[seabass]

Leave it to MH to come up with a new definition of winning percentage to make his team look better than they really are.


Thanks for disregarding my hint and taking it on a tangent. In case you forgot, this was your original point. NHL.com uses the winning percentage stat on their site, and coincidentally, it matches up with MH's. Just to drive it home, here's the title of that page:


2005-2006 - Regular Season - Summary - WIN %

[Uncle Larry]

you're wrong on so many levels. There was not an 8 game road winning streak. They lost in NJ and Wash before detroit. And I posted several times in that period.

Check the records, idiot.:lol: Baby want his bottle?

:crying: :crying: :crying:

[Mike and Maddog]

Thanks for disregarding my hint and taking it on a tangent. In case you forgot, this was your original point. NHL.com uses the winning percentage stat on their site, and coincidentally, it matches up with MH's. Just to drive it home, here's the title of that page:

Thanks for disregarding MH's original post titled STANDING that included winning percentage and my pointing out that NHL.com doesn't use winning % in their STANDINGS.

[Uncle Larry]

:crying: :crying: :crying:

[Mike and Maddog]

:lol: Baby want his bottle?

:crying: :crying: :crying:

thanks for proving my point. you can't back up your false accusations.

[DoctorNo]

thanks for proving my point. you can't back up your false accusations.

Speaking as a non-Flyers fan, you're getting tiresome. At least try to bring something interesting to the table, for Pete's sake.

[seabass]

Thanks for disregarding MH's original post titled STANDING that included winning percentage and my pointing out that NHL.com doesn't use winning % in their STANDINGS.

Ahhh... I guess I know who to come to when someone soils a standings report with extra information. Just so you know, ESPN.com has power play/penalty kill percentage info on their basic standings report, and NHL.com doesn't. I hope you bug them about it too.

And why does it matter that he added the column? Because it supposedly makes the Flyers look better than they are? Who cares, they're still ranked third in the East in that respect.

With that aside, I hope we're clear on the NHL/MH definition of "winning percentage". We don't have to get fussy over how someone provides the standings anymore.

[Irish Blues]

Carolina is 37-11-4, for 78 points. Strip out the 4 OTL's and call them what they really are (a loss) and they're 37-15. That's a winning percentage of .7115 - *not* .750 as that link indicates. Their *possible point percentage* may be .750 (they've got 78 points out of a possible 104), but their winning percentage certainly isn't. They've played 52 games and won 37 of them.

Unless we're changing how we calculate "winning percentage", or course.

[MountainHawk]

Carolina is 37-11-4, for 78 points. Strip out the 4 OTL's and call them what they really are (a loss) and they're 37-15. That's a winning percentage of .7115 - *not* .750 as that link indicates. Their *possible point percentage* may be .750 (they've got 78 points out of a possible 104), but their winning percentage certainly isn't. They've played 52 games and won 37 of them.

Unless we're changing how we calculate "winning percentage", or course.
No league calculates it the way you do. In the NFL, a team that is 6-6-1 is a .500 team, not a .462 team. The NHL considers OT losses and SO losses as half a win, not as a full loss. Points won / points possible is the generally acceptable definition of winning percentage. If you don't like it, complain about the NHL awarding half a win to teams that lose ... not the definition that is used by pretty much everyone.

[Patience]

Carolina is 37-11-4, for 78 points. Strip out the 4 OTL's and call them what they really are (a loss) and they're 37-15. That's a winning percentage of .7115 - *not* .750 as that link indicates. Their *possible point percentage* may be .750 (they've got 78 points out of a possible 104), but their winning percentage certainly isn't. They've played 52 games and won 37 of them.

Unless we're changing how we calculate "winning percentage", or course.

but if comparing two teams records, who have played a different number of games, I would use the adjusted winning % (point %), not the winning %, to estimate how ,amy points the team is likely to get in the make up games.

The numbers are, what the numbers are, but the stat has merit

[Boink]

I think it's irrelevant what you CALL it as long as you take it for what it is - a simple way to glance at the standings and account for differences in games played when one team is 2 pts back with 3 games in hand. I doubt anyone here needs a % stat to figure out that 37 wins > 35 wins and that still breaks ties in the standings at year-end as far as I know.

[Patience]

I think it's irrelevant what you CALL it as long as you take it for what it is - a simple way to glance at the standings and account for differences in games played when one team is 2 pts back with 3 games in hand. I doubt anyone here needs a % stat to figure out that 37 wins > 35 wins and that still breaks ties in the standings at year-end as far as I know.

too slow

[MountainHawk]

Carolina is 37-11-4, for 78 points. Strip out the 4 OTL's and call them what they really are (a loss) and they're 37-15. That's a winning percentage of .7115 - *not* .750 as that link indicates. Their *possible point percentage* may be .750 (they've got 78 points out of a possible 104), but their winning percentage certainly isn't. They've played 52 games and won 37 of them.

Unless we're changing how we calculate "winning percentage", or course.


Your stat, btw, is the useless one. My definition of winning percentage can be used to rank teams and would, by definition, rank the teams in the proper order at the end of the season. Yours would not.

[Boink]

yeah, saw that ... but I'll leave it there since it's sometimes good to whack people in the head a second time. it never occurred to me that anyone would look at the % for any other reason

[Uncle Larry]

Looks like Anaheim has a new quarterback for their powerplay, Bryzgalov had 2 PP assists last night. Same game, anyone see Cheechoo's first of three goals? That gets nod for worst goal of the year from me. Looks like a goal you'd see in a 9 year old's game.

[MountainHawk]

I didn't see much hockey last night ... just some of the Devils-Sens game. Bad because the defense as sad, bad because the goalie was bad, or for some other reason? (Or all of the above?)

[Uncle Larry]

It was set up by Thorton, very nice pass across, lol Bryzgalov tried to slide across the net but didn't make it all the way, Cheechoo had an almost empty net to shoot into from a somewhat sharp angle, he completely fanned on the shot, it rolled along the ice at walking speed past Bryzgalovs leg which wasn't reaching across far enough.

[MountainHawk]

Heh ... wonder if it'll make the 'Not Top 10' on Saturday on SC.

[seabass]

Trade news:

To Calgary - Brian Boucher, Mike Leclerc
To Phoenix - Phillipe Sauve, Steve Reinprecht

[Mike and Maddog]

Carolina is 37-11-4, for 78 points. Strip out the 4 OTL's and call them what they really are (a loss) and they're 37-15. That's a winning percentage of .7115 - *not* .750 as that link indicates. Their *possible point percentage* may be .750 (they've got 78 points out of a possible 104), but their winning percentage certainly isn't. They've played 52 games and won 37 of them.

Unless we're changing how we calculate "winning percentage", or course.

I totally agree.

[Mike and Maddog]

No league calculates it the way you do. In the NFL, a team that is 6-6-1 is a .500 team, not a .462 team. The NHL considers OT losses and SO losses as half a win, not as a full loss. Points won / points possible is the generally acceptable definition of winning percentage. If you don't like it, complain about the NHL awarding half a win to teams that lose ... not the definition that is used by pretty much everyone.

Bad example. In the NFL, a tie is a tie for both teams, not a win for one and a loss for the other.

And the NHL considers OT losses and SO losses as half a point, not half a win.

[Uncle Larry]

And the NHL considers OT losses and SO losses as half a point, not half a win.It's not a half point, it's a full point idiot, which is half of the two points you get for winning.

[Mike and Maddog]

It's not a half point, it's a full point idiot, which is half of the two points you get for winning.

If you're going to critique, at least make it correct. It's a full point, idiot.

My original "point" stands.

[Uncle Larry]

:blah:IFYQ

[Irish Blues]

Your stat, btw, is the useless one. My definition of winning percentage can be used to rank teams and would, by definition, rank the teams in the proper order at the end of the season. Yours would not.
Are you going to use "point percentage" to rank teams? Fine, then it's got a use.

Are you going to use "point percentage" to predict whether Team A will beat Team B? Then it's a completely useless stat. A lot of people want to take "point percentage" and twist it in 13 different ways to justify some prediction they've made, and in the process completely treat "point percentage" as "winning percentage" when the two are clearly not the same.

That is the point I was trying to make.

[MountainHawk]

Winning percentage is an equally useless stat. ~25% of Dallas' "wins" have come via shootout, which tells you nothing on whether Dallas will beat team X, unless it gets to a shootout. My winning percentage tells you how often a team is successful in picking up points. Philadelphia has earned 67.3% of the poitns that were available to them. That's a real measure of success.

[Irish Blues]

Winning percentage is an equally useless stat. ~25% of Dallas' "wins" have come via shootout, which tells you nothing on whether Dallas will beat team X, unless it gets to a shootout. My winning percentage tells you how often a team is successful in picking up points. Philadelphia has earned 67.3% of the poitns that were available to them. That's a real measure of success.
Does that mean Philadelphia is going to win 67.3% of the time? No. Come playoff time, the fact that you got through regulation and picked up an extra 16 points means squat. If you can go 38-28-16 and get 92 points in the regular season, fantastic! It tells me if you run into a team that's 44-36-2, you're just likely to drag them into OT before you lose.

So what if Dallas has won 25% of their games in the shootout? They still won, right? Are you penalizing them for needing the shootout to win? If you're giving more credit to a team that wins in regulation than a team that wins in OT, and more credit to a team that wins in OT than a team that wins in the shootout, fine. I can't (and won't) argue with that. But it doesn't appear that you are. You can't bash Dallas for winning in a shootout but turn around and give credit to Anaheim because they picked up an extra 10 points in games they lost.

It's just something we're likely going to have to disagree on, and that's fine. I just hate the whole "give a team a point even if they lose" idea, and I really hate when people (and I'm not pointing the finger at you on this) confuse "winning percentage" with "point percentage" and use the latter to say that Team A has a better chance of beating Team B when they play.

[Patience]

Kevin Colley took a nasty crash headfirst into the boards, and somehow managed to get up from it.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/ny-spisles024610330feb02,0,7728761.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

The 27-year-old winger suffered a fracture of the fifth cervical (C-5) vertebrae in his upper spine when he crashed headfirst into the corner boards during Tuesday's game at the Coliseum. Colley did not suffer damage to his spinal cord.

[MountainHawk]

Does that mean Philadelphia is going to win 67.3% of the time? No. Come playoff time, the fact that you got through regulation and picked up an extra 16 points means squat. If you can go 38-28-16 and get 92 points in the regular season, fantastic! It tells me if you run into a team that's 44-36-2, you're just likely to drag them into OT before you lose.

So what if Dallas has won 25% of their games in the shootout? They still won, right? Are you penalizing them for needing the shootout to win? If you're giving more credit to a team that wins in regulation than a team that wins in OT, and more credit to a team that wins in OT than a team that wins in the shootout, fine. I can't (and won't) argue with that. But it doesn't appear that you are. You can't bash Dallas for winning in a shootout but turn around and give credit to Anaheim because they picked up an extra 10 points in games they lost.

It's just something we're likely going to have to disagree on, and that's fine. I just hate the whole "give a team a point even if they lose" idea, and I really hate when people (and I'm not pointing the finger at you on this) confuse "winning percentage" with "point percentage" and use the latter to say that Team A has a better chance of beating Team B when they play.


I despise the points for losers idea, but the reality of the situation is that for predicting the results of games in the playoffs, the best percentage to use it probably Regulation Wins/(Reg Wins +Reg Losses). If your 44-36-2 team was 11-2 in overtime, and your 38-28-16 team was 3-16 in OT ... then yes, I like the 35-28 regulation team over the 33-36 regulation team in the playoffs.

[hardinda]

In the playoffs ... everything changes, I don't even look at regular season records and home ice advantage doesn't seem to be that big of a deal anymore either.

[MountainHawk]

I've always said home ice only matters in game 7 in the NHL ... it's just nice to know you have it for game 7 if it does get there.

[Mike and Maddog]

I've always said home ice only matters in game 7 in the NHL ... it's just nice to know you have it for game 7 if it does get there.


http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?200030317

[GefilteFish144]

I didn't see much hockey last night ... just some of the Devils-Sens game. Bad because the defense as sad, bad because the goalie was bad, or for some other reason? (Or all of the above?)

Looks like it was an off-night for Ottawa. One of the Devils goals was deflected by an Ottawa defensiveman. Could also be a "reversion to the mean", as the Devils were shut out for 2.5 games before coming out on fire. (Maybe they were inspired by their basketball roommates, the Nets, who were just the 6th team to beat the Pistons this season.)

[DoctorNo]

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?200030317

"Home ice matters in game seven" is not logically equivalent to "Every home team wins all game sevens".

Glad to help!

[Uncle Larry]

Looks like it was an off-night for Ottawa. One of the Devils goals was deflected by an Ottawa defensiveman. Could also be a "reversion to the mean", as the Devils were shut out for 2.5 games before coming out on fire. (Maybe they were inspired by their basketball roommates, the Nets, who were just the 6th team to beat the Pistons this season.)I've been meaning to post that Ottawa looks pretty beatable lately. Except for the Leafs. But they just haven't been dominating the way they were early in the season. Carolina's looking like the best the league has to offer recently.

[MountainHawk]

If I recall correctly, the Flyers are 5-3 at home in game 7s and 1-3 on the road.

On the road, they lost the 87 final to Edmonton, and the 04 ECF to Tampa. I think they also lost a first round series with Washington in the 80s. They beat Pittsburgh for their only road win.

At home, we have the wins against TOR in 03, the NYR and NYI in the semis in the cup years. I can't think of the other two off the top of my head ... one might be the Isles in the late 80s, but I forget if that went to seven.

The home losses are obviously the 2000 Devils, and the first ever playoff series, losing to the Blues in 68 ... can't come up with the other though.

[Swan]

I've always said home ice only matters in game 7 in the NHL ... it's just nice to know you have it for game 7 if it does get there.
A long time ago, I remember reading a sports article in some newspaper, where the sports writer said something to the effect of, "I love it how every year in the playoffs, the announcers talk about teams losing their home-ice advantage. They'll say something like, 'And with that loss in game 1, the Boston Bruins lose their home-ice advantage.' I'm thinking, 'If they lost their home-ice advantage by losing a game at home, then maybe playing at home isn't that much of an advantage in the first place.'"

I agree with you about it mattering in a seven-game series, however.

[DoctorNo]

If you're a member of HFBoards, make sure to check out the thread in the NHL group where some guy can't figure out why people are still booing Bertuzzi.

"It's annoying", he says. OMGWTFBBQ!

[Mike and Maddog]

"Home ice matters in game seven" is not logically equivalent to "Every home team wins all game sevens".

Glad to help!

Who said that?

BTW, you forgot "it's just nice to know you have it for game 7 if it does get there."

I'm sure that gives comfort to flyer fans in the wake of the 2000 loss to the devils, blowing IIRC a 3-1 series lead.

:lol:

[Wannabe Actuary]

flyers lose to the sabres, let the back and forth begin....

rangers beat the isles...catch the flyers in points, although the flyers have played one less game.

[DoctorNo]

BTW, you forgot "it's just nice to know you have it for game 7 if it does get there."

"DoctorNo" != "MountainHawk".

Glad to help!

[seabass]

The Isles love leaving plenty of real estate around the crease area. They better spend all their draft picks this summer on defensemen.

[Cannonball]

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Great chanting from the Buffalo crowd to let Miller know that at least some people realize who ought to be the team USA goalie.

Sabres 4
Flyboys 2

'Nuff said.

[MountainHawk]

Flyers goalie = actually on USA roster. Sabres goalie = not on USA roster. I'm sure the sabre fans of 2014 will be whining how the US would have won gold this year if only they hadn't been screwed by the system again. :rolleyes:

[Mike and Maddog]

flyers lose to the sabres, let the back and forth begin....

rangers beat the isles...catch the flyers in points, although the flyers have played one less game.

You can do better than that. Didn't MB say the flyers wouldn't see the rangers in their rear view mirror?

I guess he was right! The rangers are riding side by side!

[Mike and Maddog]

After Monday's come-from-behind 3-2 overtime victory against the New York Rangers, the Flyers seemingly had turned the corner. Instead, they lost last night for the eighth time in 12 games

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/hockey/13778947.htm

What's the excuse this time?

[Uncle Larry]

Before I post, a question, has Reebok renamed themselves Rbk? I heard them referred to as Rbk, not sure if that was supposed to be short form or if they renamed themselves.

Anyway, anyone heard anything about these "hightech" jerseys they've developped? Apparently they've designed new jerseys and equipment and sent prototypes to every GM in the NHL. Only problem is so far the GMs hate them. A couple have made anonymous comments to the press that they look ridiculous and if they're given the option they'd never have their players wear em. Apparently they're made of some space-age material, they're tight fitting, and have to be tucked in, because Reebok also developped new hockey pants that have kidney protectors so they ride up much higher.

Anyway no one's seen this stuff yet, but Las Vegas' ECHL team is supposed to be modelling them for the press sometime in the near future.

[Patience]

I heard them referred to as Rbk

How is Rbk pronounced?

[seabass]

I've heard Rbk mentioned plenty of times, mostly in their basketball commercials. I know they still sell the classics with the old logo, so the company name is probably still the same.

I thought that those new Canada jerseys were supposedly a step in that direction. Something about them seemed different, but the players may have just been wearing them without full padding. I can't find a picture of them, in any case. Here's another article about them:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp

[MountainHawk]

The only thing I've heard in addition to what you have UL is that some of the traditional teams (read the original 6 and the first 6 expansion teams) may be able to force Rbk to keep their logo the same. Otherwise, I heard a lot of team are having their logos redesigned too. Of course, I'm sure the team has final approval, but who knows with the NHL sometimes.

[Cannonball]

Flyers goalie = actually on USA roster. Sabres goalie = not on USA roster. I'm sure the sabre fans of 2014 will be whining how the US would have won gold this year if only they hadn't been screwed by the system again. :rolleyes:

Sabres 4
Flyboys 2

[MountainHawk]

Dallas 4 games
Sabres 2

[Uncle Larry]

How is Rbk pronounced?Just say the letters, R-B-K.

[Uncle Larry]

I've heard Rbk mentioned plenty of times, mostly in their basketball commercials. I know they still sell the classics with the old logo, so the company name is probably still the same.

I thought that those new Canada jerseys were supposedly a step in that direction. Something about them seemed different, but the players may have just been wearing them without full padding. I can't find a picture of them, in any case. Here's another article about them:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.aspActually that article is what Bob McKenzie read on Sportscentre this morning so that's exactly what I heard.

[Irish Blues]

Actually that article is what Bob McKenzie read on Sportscentre this morning so that's exactly what I heard.
If they look anything like those stupid futuristic baseball uniforms from a couple of years back, there's gonna be hell.

[Wannabe Actuary]

rangers and flyers match up again at 5 pm tonight (I think in Philly - which means comcast sportsnet in HD baby)

[Wannabe Actuary]

ok, comcast sportsnet has the 76ers at 7 instead, so the Flyers Rangers game is on UPN instead

[DoctorNo]

Great handling of the games today by NBC. I can't vouch for what everyone else saw, but in Denver, we had Wings-Avs, then were immediately switched to the end of the Blues-Stars game. After Jackman's overtime winner, we're now getting Pittsburgh-Islanders's overtime. Good times!

[Wannabe Actuary]

I don't think we had any hockey yet here in the philly area, but we have a good game coming up in a few minutes

[MountainHawk]

Prucha got hurt on a totally clean hit by Stevenson ... looked like a serious knee injury.

And just to show what 'class people' Rangers fans are, a few select quotes from HFboards from the Ranger fans section


I dont want fights, I want dirty play, elbows to heads and Knee on Knees.



If Kasperdoes not go head hunting I will be pissed!




I want to see Carter or Gagne's blood. Pay them back. Don't let them get away with it. They clearly sent Stevenson to injure Prucha.



i want stevensons or gagnes leg broken..
now

[DoctorNo]

I'm watching the MSG broadcast of the game, and even the Rangers' broadcasters say that it was a clean hit (which it was).

[seabass]

Hockey fans can be fussy... even Flyers fans. Shame for Prucha though.

[GefilteFish144]

Prucha got hurt on a totally clean hit by Stevenson ... looked like a serious knee injury.

And just to show what 'class people' Rangers fans are, a few select quotes from HFboards from the Ranger fans section

If that were Gagne getting hurt you'd get stuff on Flyer boards as well. When you're dealing with the hockey fan base (i.e., those who love those vicious checks, fighting, etc.) you're always going to get a few.

Though costly, good win for the Rangers. Just too bad JD wasn't available for the broadcast -- that other colour guy was just plain awful.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I'm watching the MSG broadcast of the game, and even the Rangers' broadcasters say that it was a clean hit (which it was).
I was watching a flyers broadcast of the game, and it was a clean hit. Prucha made it happen by stopping to try to avoid the big part of the hit. It's one of those bad luck situations that wasn't intentional at all.

One of the rangers started a fight with Stevenson later in the game, which shows that the rangers hadn't seen a replay of the hit yet.

Anyway, like I said, we were in for a good game. I was nervous that the Rangers threw away another two goal lead to the Flyers in the span of a week. But at least the Rangers managed to come back and win in OT.

Rangers vs Flyers - 2-0-2 6 points
Flyers vs Rangers - 2-1-1 5 points

[MountainHawk]

Flyers just aren't in a very good place right now mentally. This Olympic break can't get here soon enough. We should finally have our defense core back after the break ... maybe we can see some improvement on the PP then.

Rangers keep on surprising me. That was a good comeback.

[Uncle Larry]

One of the rangers started a fight with Stevenson later in the game, which shows that the rangers hadn't seen a replay of the hit yet.No it doesn't.

[GefilteFish144]

Agree with Larry on that one. Clean hit or no, players generally stand up for their fallen teammates.

Initial prognosis on Prucha is 4-6 weeks, meaning that it will hurt the Czech team much more than the Rangers. (Though one could make the argument that they are pretty much the same....)

[Uncle Larry]

NHL players start fights for a lot less than a clean hit. The most common reason to start a fight is probably because they're losing.

On another note, Atlanta has fallen to 11th place in the east, although it's going to be a dog fight for the last 2 playoff spots.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Canadiens spank the flyers 5-0 today. Flyers and Rangers now even in games played, Rangers up a point....seems like it's the Flyers in the Rangers rear view mirror and not the other way around.

[hardinda]

2005-2006 Season Series
Sabres 2 wins
Flyers 2 losses

'nuff said

[MountainHawk]

Canadiens spank the flyers 5-0 today. Flyers and Rangers now even in games played, Rangers up a point....seems like it's the Flyers in the Rangers rear view mirror and not the other way around.

We shall see. Still plenty of hockey to be played, and everyone will actually have to play the Flyers after the Olympic break, not the Phantoms.

[bfore13]

Canadiens spank the flyers 5-0 today. Flyers and Rangers now even in games played, Rangers up a point....seems like it's the Flyers in the Rangers rear view mirror and not the other way around.Considering that they've lost 260+ man games to injury (tops in the NHL), I'm pretty happy they're only 1 pt back. Division title is meaningless anyway, just make it to the big show.

[Mike and Maddog]

What a weekend for the flyers! Winning against the rangers with less than a minute to go and poof! It's gone! Rangers take over first place again.

Yesterday, another laugher.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/13800883.htm

"It's getting to the point where it's ridiculous," Kapanen said after the Flyers (31-15-9) lost for the fifth time in six games. "The other team is smiling and laughing [while] skating off the ice.

:lol: I'm laughing too!

[seabass]

Speaking as a non-Flyers fan, you're getting tiresome. At least try to bring something interesting to the table, for Pete's sake.

post bump

[DoctorNo]

:lol: I'm laughing too!

If I were drunk at 9:30 in the morning, I'd be laughing too.

[Mike and Maddog]

If I were drunk at 9:30 in the morning, I'd be laughing too.


You probably are drunk after the way your seahawks played.

[DoctorNo]

You probably are drunk after the way your seahawks played.

Must be nice never telling anyone who, exactly, you root for. Must also be nice to be a front-runner.

Do we have a "plonk" emoticon?

:plonk

[Uncle Larry]

Division title is meaningless anywayThe title is meaningless, but seeding is not. That one point behind the Rangers is the difference between hosting Jersey or going to Buffalo (ignoring the is home ice advantage worthless or not debate for the moment).

[Uncle Larry]

Must be nice never telling anyone who, exactly, you root for.He doesn't tell us who he roots for because he won't know who he was rooting for this year until they win the cup.

Where exactly does the last guy on the bandwagon sit anyway?

[MountainHawk]

Hmmm ... Martin Brodeur or an untested rookie goalie .... hmmmm ;-)


(I see your point, though :) )

[Uncle Larry]

I was wrong, it's actually Tampa in 6th right now, by virtue of having a game in hand over Jersey.

[Uncle Larry]

You know...Philly might want to toss the division. Why would they want to play the defending champs instead of Buffalo.

[bfore13]

The title is meaningless, but seeding is not.I disagree to some extent. Having watched the Flyers finish 1, 2, or 3 for many years only to lose in the 1st round, I think winning in the POs has more to do with how you're playing in April and who has the "hot" goalie. Since '89, only 4 teams have won the Preident's Cup and Stanley Cup in the same season.

[Uncle Larry]

So it doesn't matter who you play? If you say so.

[hardinda]

I know, as a Sabre fan, I'd rather play Philly in round 1. Nothing better than listening to Flyers fans whining after they lose in the playoffs.

[MountainHawk]

I know, as a Sabre fan, I'd rather play Philly in round 1. Nothing better than listening to Flyers fans whining after they lose in the playoffs.

Classic. Sabres fans are the biggest whiners around.


"No goal", "No goal 2", and "Ryan Miller should have made the team, even though he was hurt most of the season before the selection date" ring a bell?

[hardinda]

Flyers are lucky they are in such a cakewalk division. 1 game over .500 vs the rest of the east ... quality.

[bfore13]

So it doesn't matter who you play? If you say so.I'm not saying it doesn't matter but IMO matchups are overrated. I'm seen many teams dominate another team in the reg. season only to lose in a playoff series. In the last SC playoffs, DET comes in as the #1 seed and was 3-1 vs. CAL during the season yet they lose in 6 games. It seems like almost every year there's a 4+ seed in the Finals or at least Conf. Finals. That's my point. It' not like the NFL or NBA where the top seeds advance in the early rounds most of the time.

[seabass]

Flyers are lucky they are in such a cakewalk division. 1 game over .500 vs the rest of the east ... quality.

What exactly makes the Atlantic "cakewalk"? I see three playoff teams, one other team with barely a shot to make the playoffs at this point, and one garbage team. NJ has slowed a bit since their winning streak, but they still have the capability to make a run at the division title.

[Uncle Larry]

Atlantic is the 4th best division in hockey right now. Bottom half, but I wouldn't call it a cake walk. Islanders are only about 4 points out of a playoff spot right now.

Southeast and Central are clearly the worst divisions in the NHL.

[Irish Blues]

Central is clearly the worst division in the NHL.
Fixed. Columbus, Chicago and St. Louis <<< Florida, Washington and ... whoever you'd pick as the 3rd team for this comparison.

Or, Chicago and St. Louis <<< Florida and Washington.

[Mike and Maddog]

Flyers are lucky they are in such a cakewalk division. 1 game over .500 vs the rest of the east ... quality.

And they have just six wins in 18 games against teams that are either in first or second place in their division.

[hardinda]

What exactly makes the Atlantic "cakewalk"?

NYR and Flyers headlining a division = cakewalk

[MountainHawk]

Hasek and a rookie headlining a division = playoff chokes a-coming


In other news ... Devastating Blow for Team Canada hockey (http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/news_story.asp?id=153842)

[seabass]

NYR and Flyers headlining a division = cakewalk

Care to elaborate?

[hardinda]

The top teams in the league are not scared of the Flyers or the Rangers this year. Carolina and Ottawa are the 2 teams in the east that scare ppl. So, if you are in their division and have to play them 8 times during the regular season, it wears you down. Neither the Flyers nor the Rangers have the teams this year to worry that 8 games could wear you down. Therefore, the Atlantic division is a cakewalk division.

Top teams in the east vs the Atlantic division:

Carolina 10-3-1
Ottawa 7-3-0
Buffalo 13-2-1
Tampa 10-3-0

[Mike and Maddog]

# 7 USA

Unless the Americans can find a way to get Ryan Miller into the goaltending mix, they will be in big trouble in net. None of Rick DiPietro, Robert Esche or John Grahame have been particularly stellar so facing the best shooters in the world could be more than they can handle. That said, the forward units could be pretty decent, particularly if Keith Tkachuk is in shape enough to bang some bodies and score some ugly goals and the Americans might thrive in the position of underdogs.

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?fid=10625

[Uncle Larry]

Hasek and a rookie headlining a division = playoff chokes a-coming


In other news ... Devastating Blow for Team Canada hockey (http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/news_story.asp?id=153842)Jebus...don't do that man. Scared me to death. We've got enough problems, don't need any more.

[Uncle Larry]

Fixed. Columbus, Chicago and St. Louis <<< Florida, Washington and ... whoever you'd pick as the 3rd team for this comparison.

Or, Chicago and St. Louis <<< Florida and Washington.Central's obviously the worst. Nashville is only .500 outside their division. However the Southeast division is weaker than the Atlantic, so I tossed it in with Central.

Washington, Florida, Atlanta<<Pens, Isles and Devils.

[hardinda]

# 7 USA

Unless the Americans can find a way to get Ryan Miller into the goaltending mix,

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?fid=10625

TSN must just be a bunch of Sabres fans, whining about Ryan Miller like that...

[MountainHawk]

No ... TSN are Canadian fans ... way to think TSN has the best interest of the Americans at heart. :lolup:

[Boink]

Central's obviously the worst. Nashville is only .500 outside their division. However the Southeast division is weaker than the Atlantic, so I tossed it in with Central.

Washington, Florida, Atlanta<<Pens, Isles and Devils.


I think that's perception as much as anything. Based on W% alone as of today:

Northwest .6057
Northeast .5902
Pacific .5775
Central .5438
Southeast .5332
Atlantic .5330

The Central is 14-7-4 against the Atlantic for a .5435 and every other division is at least .600 against the Atlantic. Luckily, they're racking up the points from the OT and SO losses so it masks that somewhat, i.e. the Atlantic plays .6429 against itself so maybe they've got a little "gentleman's agreement" to make sure they both walk out with at least a point. :)

[MountainHawk]

Every division is above .500?!?! God bless the OT Losers point, so it can make everyone feel good.

[Uncle Larry]

Where are you getting these numbers from? How does 14-7-4 make a .5435 winning percentage? The Atlantic doesn't play .6429 against itself. I think you need to redo your numbers.

[Patience]

I think that's perception as much as anything. Based on W% alone as of today:

Northwest .6057
Northeast .5902
Pacific .5775
Central .5438
Southeast .5332
Atlantic .5330

The Central is 14-7-4 against the Atlantic for a .5435 and every other division is at least .600 against the Atlantic. Luckily, they're racking up the points from the OT and SO losses so it masks that somewhat, i.e. the Atlantic plays .6429 against itself so maybe they've got a little "gentleman's agreement" to make sure they both walk out with at least a point. :)

Even with OT points those % as whole seem to high. Also can you do this excluding divsional games?

[Boink]

These are the same % of points available we've been talking about so yes, when one team takes home 2 and the other gets 1 for an OT loss, you get % higher than .500. In fact, it's the one thing saving the Atlantic where they don't like to beat one another in regulation.

[MountainHawk]

Jebus...don't do that man. Scared me to death. We've got enough problems, don't need any more.

What ... the lucky loonie isn't the key to Canada's success?

Sorry. :)

[Boink]

Even with OT points those % as whole seem to high. Also can you do this excluding divsional games?


Outside the division:

Northwest .6455 (96-48-21)
Northeast .6076 (96-59-17)
Pacific .5819 (92-64-15)
Central .5414 (75-62-20)
Southeast .5221 (86-78-17)
Atlantic .5112 (80-76-23)

[MountainHawk]

I guess, by definition, a division must be over .500 against itself.

The formula is essentially

Divisional Games played + .5 OT games
-------------------------------------
Divisional Games played * 2

[hardinda]

Atlantic = cakewalk

[Uncle Larry]

Where are you getting these numbers from? How does 14-7-4 make a .5435 winning percentage?Maybe I'm slow, but can someone show me the calculation to make 14-7-4 turn into a .5435 winning percentage?

[MountainHawk]

dunno, I get .6400

[Boink]

Sorry, pulled the wrong cell from the spreadsheet, that 14-7-4 = .6400 against the Atlantic. It's the Southeast that is .5435 against the ATL (34-28-7)

[hardinda]

If his games totals are correct (don't feel like checking), the winning % is wrong, but the order is still correct ... Atlantic falls at the bottom:

NW 0.581818182
NE 0.558139535
Pac 0.538011696
Central 0.477707006
SE 0.475138122
Atlantic 0.446927374

[seabass]

The top teams in the league are not scared of the Flyers or the Rangers this year. Carolina and Ottawa are the 2 teams in the east that scare ppl. So, if you are in their division and have to play them 8 times during the regular season, it wears you down. Neither the Flyers nor the Rangers have the teams this year to worry that 8 games could wear you down. Therefore, the Atlantic division is a cakewalk division.

Top teams in the east vs the Atlantic division:

Carolina 10-3-1
Ottawa 7-3-0
Buffalo 13-2-1
Tampa 10-3-0

I agree that those are the two dominant teams, but it remains to be seen whether the new schedule really hurts the NE and SE playoff teams. I look at the playoff teams right now, and really, Toronto is the only team that doesn't look like they've got it this year. Philadelphia is not a team I'd want to face if they're healthy. NJ could steal a round or two, assuming they can keep steady and make the playoffs. I'm not sold on NYR yet for the playoffs, and out of the potential home round teams, they're probably the most beatable. In any case, I think the SE is marginally worse than the Atlantic, with all of the other East teams except for Pittsburgh and Montreal going .500 or better.

As an aside, I don't like the idea of using regular season series as a predictor of playoff success. Isles did well against Toronto and TB during the regular season in two of their recent playoff appearances, and those series didn't end all that well.

[Uncle Larry]

On an unrelated note, 3 posts after this one this thread will become the 2nd most posted to thread in the Sports forum. I'm glad this thread's kept up all season and didn't fade away. Keep posting boys!

[MountainHawk]

3

[seabass]

Whats the soon to be 3rd most posted topic?

[MountainHawk]

1

[MountainHawk]

Woohoo!

[MountainHawk]

Boston Red Sox - 2005 Season ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... Last Page)
RedSoxFan 01-23-2006 10:30 AM
by Mike and Maddog 2,638 29,356

NHL 2005-2006: The thread ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... Last Page)
MountainHawk Today 02:28 PM
by MountainHawk 1,940 17,518

Red Sox vs. Yankees ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... Last Page)
Jonas Grumby 11-08-2004 05:01 PM
by RedSoxFan 1,938 14,966

[seabass]

Injury news for the Olympics - Bret Hedican replaces Aaron Miller for USA, and in what seems to be an upgrade, Patrik Elias is supposedly the replacement for Petr Prucha. Not bad.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I've read Prucha out 3-4 weeks, given the olympic time frame, it won't be a terrible loss...from what it looks like, the Rangers have games on the 8th, 10th, 11th, and then don't come back from the break until 3/2...
4 weeks from 2/4 puts it at 3/4...he could be out 4 weeks and miss only 4-5 games.

[DoctorNo]

in what seems to be an upgrade, Patrik Elias is supposedly the replacement for Petr Prucha. Not bad.

Yeah - Elias has looked pretty good since his return. It's fortuituous for the Czechs that an injury allowed them to include Elias, but my guess is that they would have manufactured an injury if one didn't present itself.

[MountainHawk]

This could be the best chance Toronto has of winning another Cup (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=153935&hubname=)

[Big D]

Anniversary of a special night (http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=3377b43e-1859-42dc-8805-6a87612d9814&p=1) for Leaf fans.

[MountainHawk]

Rumor mill -- NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman made it clear in a radio interview last week that the Penguins' future in Pittsburgh hinges on a new arena.

"We never want to move a franchise. But their lease expires in a year and if there's no new building, there's no way this club can have any future in Pittsburgh. If there's a new arena, there's no question the team's going to be here. Without a new arena there's no question the team's going to go."

[hardinda]

I read that Forsberg left practice today after tightening up a bit (again). Looks like he might not be back until after the Olympics. If he actually decides to play in the Olympics ... I would not be very happy if I were a Flyers fan. Considering I don't like the Flyers much, hope he plays.

[MountainHawk]

Yeah ... he's going to announce his decision on whether to play on Friday. I'll be extraordinarily pissed if he plays at this point. He's hurt, and nothing heals a groin like 3 weeks of doing nothing.

Pitkanen bailed on Team Finland today, so that's at least one more player that will heal over the break as well.

[Uncle Larry]

Leafs spank Atlanta, what else is new. Move to 4-0 against the Thrashers on the season.

[hardinda]

Leafs spank Atlanta, what else is new. Move to 4-0 against the Thrashers on the season.

Don Waddell is about done in Atlanta. Guaranteeing the playoffs after your team just lost 7 of the last 8 is a good way to show you suck at your job. We'll have to see what kind of deadline moves he is going to make, but he better make some.

Now if the Leafs could only spank the good teams in the league.

[MountainHawk]

Wasn't it only 20 or 30 pages ago that Atlanta was going to catch Ottawa in goal scoring?

[seabass]

MH, any news on Forsberg? I'd like to know if we have a shot at this game.

[MountainHawk]

He's out. Experienced groin tightness yesterday at practice, so I don't think he's going to play before Friday, and the Olympics for him are a major question mark.

[hardinda]

Wasn't it only 20 or 30 pages ago that Atlanta was going to catch Ottawa in goal scoring?

Atlanta has scored more goals than your Flyers, the only 2 teams in the East that have scored more goals than Atlanta is Ottawa and Carolina.

[MountainHawk]

Sadly for Atlanta, the only teams that give up more goals than them are Washington and Pittsburgh.

[hardinda]

Sadly for Atlanta, the only teams that give up more goals than them are Washington and Pittsburgh.

I never said that they would have a low goals against, i just said they would be at the top of the league in goals scored. They have major issues and are an under-achieving team. I'd expect a big shake up in the roster and front office when they don't make the playoffs. I'd also expect Waddell to be a buyer at the trade deadline to try and make his guarantee come true. In order to that though, he'll have to give away a top player to open up cap room.

[MountainHawk]

Canada loses Neidermayer (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154027&hubname=)

[seabass]

Canada loses Neidermayer (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154027&hubname=)

Although I haven't kept up with his health situation, I wonder if McCabe is the assumed replacement. Those talkbalkers certainly seem to be hoping he isn't...

[MountainHawk]

Forsberg out, Desjardins in for tonight: http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/pressbox/archive/2441.asp

[Uncle Larry]

Now if the Leafs could only spank the good teams in the league.Funny, you would have us believe Atlanta is a good team in the league.

[Uncle Larry]

Although I haven't kept up with his health situation, I wonder if McCabe is the assumed replacement. Those talkbalkers certainly seem to be hoping he isn't...Nope. He was on the taxi squad however because of his injury problems he's not automatic. Deion Phaneuf's name has been floating around, as well as Dan Boyle, Scott Hannan and Kyle McLaren I think. Adrian Aucoin's name never seems to come up for some reason, I would have liked to have had him considered, but he's out now anyway.

[MountainHawk]

I think the flyers lines for tonight will look something like:

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Nedved?-Carter-Kapanen
Brashear-Handzus-Stevenson
Savage-Umberger-Ready

Pitkanen-Hatcher
Desjardins-Meyer
Jones-Picard

Esche
Niittymaki

Yes, I'd say the Islanders have a shot.

[Uncle Larry]

Was Ready called up? Hope he makes it to the end of the game this time.

[MountainHawk]

Yep ... called up today.

[Chubbs_23]

Esche has been the biggest let down on my otherwise dominant fantasy team, yet I have not been able to pull the trigger to drop him, because I still think he can bag many more wins for me, and that his .GAA will improve when the Flyers get healthy.

MH, what do you anticipate the %split between Esche/Nitty will be for the rest of the season?

[MountainHawk]

50/50 at best for Esche ... Nitty has been the superior goalie, but i really don't think Hitchcock has his mind made up, and he's likely to just go with the hot goalie as much as he can after the break.

[Mike and Maddog]

MH, any news on Forsberg? I'd like to know if we have a shot at this game.

Yeah, but flyers are overwhelming favorites. 8-5 odds.

[MountainHawk]

Scratch those lines ... Gagne out with the flu. Some dude named Ruczika up in his place.

[MountainHawk]

Uncle .... Ryan Ready just got his first career NHL point, a nice assist to Richards in the 2nd.

[MountainHawk]

Flyers get a 5-2 win, Richards with a Hattrick, including 2 SHG ... keep pace with the Rangers, with Ovechkin coming into Philly with the Caps tomorrow.

[Wannabe Actuary]

rangers with a quality 5-1 win over the Senators

[seabass]

Looks like Yashin decided to pack it in for the year... in December... okay, maybe earlier than that.

[seabass]

Although I haven't kept up with his health situation, I wonder if McCabe is the assumed replacement. Those talkbalkers certainly seem to be hoping he isn't...

Too bad for those talkbackers, but some of them got their wish: Jay Bouwmeester's in, along with Bryan McCabe. Dion Phaneuf fanboys continue to weep. Dan Boyle has been added to the taxi squad.

[DoctorNo]

Extra thanks to the Blues of St. Louis for taking out Vancouver tonight!

[Uncle Larry]

Uncle .... Ryan Ready just got his first career NHL point, a nice assist to Richards in the 2nd.:party: Gonna send him an e-mail tomorrow. Not too bad! First point in his second game, only played 5 minutes in his first game!

[Super Silver Haze]

rangers with a quality 5-1 win over the Senators
And really, their 6-2 loss to the Senators earlier this season can be pinned on them starting Weekes.

[Irish Blues]

Extra thanks to the Blues of St. Louis for taking out Vancouver tonight!
:tup: And for all the Keith Tkachuk-bashing that his large crowd of haters likes to do and for all the fat jokes people like to lob, after a 1-goal, 2-assist performance last night Walt is now 10-11-21 on the season. In 14 games.

[Mike and Maddog]

flyers beat a team they are supposed to beat. still in second place.

the rangers win over ottawa is impressive. let's see if the flyers can do that on saturday.

[hardinda]

It's looking like 90 points might be needed to just make the playoffs this year. Guess that's the impact of the shootouts.

[MountainHawk]

Considering the NHL is giving out about 2.2 points per game, the AVERAGE NHL team should have about 90 points. So that seems about right for the playoffs, and maybe a little low. I wouldn't be shocked to see 90-91 points miss out.

[hardinda]

I wouldn't be shocked to see 90-91 points miss out.

In the West, I think 90-91 will miss out. In the east I think it'll only take 89-90 to get in.

[MountainHawk]

In the East, I'm assuming NYR, PHI, NJD, OTT, BUF, CAR, and TBY are going to make it, and the last position is a race between TOR, MTL, BOS, ATL, and maybe FLA and NYI if one of them really catches fire. It looks like 90 should do it, but if a couple of them catch fire it could get pushed up a couple of points.

In the West, it's a 10 team race, with DET, NSH, DAL all looking like locks, and ANA, LA plus the Northwest racing off for the other 5 spots. I think that number is likely to be right around 90 too, just because the Northwest will beat itself up quite a bit down the home stretch, when most of the games are divisional IIRC.

[GefilteFish144]

the rangers win over ottawa is impressive. let's see if the flyers can do that on saturday.

Not to take away anything from the Rangers, but Ottawa has not played well as of late. In fact, Hasek has been just plain awful. Just a few days ago he gave up 5 goals to the Devils, who are basically a 1-line team.

Of course, Rangers played impressively, and 2 straight wins over first place teams is a great way to build confidence with the young players.

[bfore13]

flyers beat a team they are supposed to beat. still in second place.

the rangers win over ottawa is impressive. let's see if the flyers can do that on saturday.FYI, the Flyers are 2-0 vs. Ottawa this season and both those wins came when Ottawa was playing very well.

[Irish Blues]

In the East, I'm assuming NYR, PHI, NJD, OTT, BUF, CAR, and TBY are going to make it, and the last position is a race between TOR, MTL, BOS, ATL, and maybe FLA and NYI if one of them really catches fire. It looks like 90 should do it, but if a couple of them catch fire it could get pushed up a couple of points.

In the West, it's a 10 team race, with DET, NSH, DAL all looking like locks, and ANA, LA plus the Northwest racing off for the other 5 spots. I think that number is likely to be right around 90 too, just because the Northwest will beat itself up quite a bit down the home stretch, when most of the games are divisional IIRC.
EAST: Atlanta is out unless they can get things turned around quick. Florida's out, the Isles are probably out too. Boston may yet scratch their way back in, but they've got work to do yet. The top 7 teams are in barring a major collapse.

On the other hand, *sigh* the Blues have inexplicably picked up their play and are running away from the #1 overall pick, while the Pens seem determined to lose out to ensure they get it.

WEST: I have the Northwest except for Minnesota in right now; Los Angeles is trying to play their way out of a spot. It'll take 91 or 92 points to get in here.

[Mike and Maddog]

FYI, the Flyers are 2-0 vs. Ottawa this season and both those wins came when Ottawa was playing very well.

And when philly was playing well. Not so well lately.

[MountainHawk]

Boston has to be considered back in the race now, no?

8. TOR 55 GP, 59 points
9. MTL 54 GP, 57 points
10. BOS 56 GP, 57 points
11. ATL 56 GP, 54 points

12. NYI 55 GP, 52 points
13. FLA 56 GP 52 points

14. WSH 54 GP, 43 points

15. PIT 57 GP, 35 points

[Uncle Larry]

No way are FLA or NYI out. What did the standings look like 25-27 games ago? There's still a lot of hockey left to play. I'm not saying they'll get in, but to count them out is ridiculous.

[Irish Blues]

No way are FLA or NYI out. What did the standings look like 25-27 games ago? There's still a lot of hockey left to play. I'm not saying they'll get in, but to count them out is ridiculous.
$10 says neither team makes the playoffs.

Boston has a very difficult schedule the rest of the season. Buffalo 5 times, Ottawa twice, Carolina twice, the Rangers twice, and New Jersey once. Plus they'll have Montreal 4 times, Atlanta three times and Toronto twice. That's 21 of their final 24 games against teams either headed to the playoffs or solidly fighting for a playoff spot (23 if we include the Islanders and Florida). So Boston is "in the hunt", but they've got the toughest schedule after the Olympics of any team in the NHL. They'll have their work cut out, there won't be any easy points when play starts back up.

[Real American Hero]

On the other end of the Thornton trade, the Sharks have a pretty rough schedule after the break, and they're 7-8 points behind LA for 8th. And way back about 80 pages ago, I picked 'em to win the Cup. Yikes.

[GefilteFish144]

On the other end of the Thornton trade, the Sharks have a pretty rough schedule after the break, and they're 7-8 points behind LA for 8th. And way back about 80 pages ago, I picked 'em to win the Cup. Yikes.

No reason to be ashamed. The experts picked the Rangers to be dead last in the NHL. Spit happens.

[bfore13]

And when philly was healthier. Not so healthy lately.IFYQ

[Big D]

Another positive test (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154224&hubname=)

[hardinda]

Another positive test (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154224&hubname=)

Sounds to me like this unnamed player didn't like that he was going bald.

[MountainHawk]

I can't find a copy of the 81 person list on TSN anywhere.

[Boink]

Looks like it was a Hab - Theodore, Ryder or Souray

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154231&hubname=

[Boink]

I can't find a copy of the 81 person list on TSN anywhere.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=140271&hubname=

[Real American Hero]

No reason to be ashamed. The experts picked the Rangers to be dead last in the NHL. Spit happens.
Well, yeah, was close on that one, too.