View Full Version : CAS to SOA: Take Course 3 and Shove it.
09-25-2002, 01:03 PM
From an email I just received.At its September meeting, the Board of Directors reviewed the
recommendations of the Design Task Force on Exams 3 and 4
(http://www.casact.org/students/reports/tf3and4_0902.pdf) and elected to
discontinue joint sponsorship of Exam 3. This change will not affect
the Fall 2002 or Spring 2003 exams. The CAS will first offer CAS Exam 3
on October 30, 2003.
09-25-2002, 01:23 PM
After the new CAS Exam 3 is implemented, the CAS will also give Exam 3
credit to candidates who pass SoA Course 3. College students and CAS
candidates therefore will have the option of writing either the SoA or
the CAS version of the examination.
So why would you write the new exam? Only if it is easier, or if an SOA designations means nothing.
09-25-2002, 01:29 PM
Are you guys serious? Fight the power CAS. :D Was the life contingencies the only motivation for this?
Maybe CAS will not follow the SOA in 2005 then?
09-25-2002, 01:35 PM
Maybe CAS will not follow the SOA in 2005 then?Why would the CAS want to follow the SoA down the rat hole that is QRA?
09-25-2002, 01:40 PM
Was the life contingencies the only motivation for this?
From the report:Exam 3
The coverage of life contingencies should be reduced to approximately the level of old CAS
Part 4A. An introductory treatment of pension mathematics should be included with
contingent payment models. Stochastic process models should be deleted. Ruin models
should be treated in less depth. Suggestions about specific learning objectives and readings
reflect these recommendations. If the proposed change to life contingencies material is the
only obstacle to jointly administering these exams with the Society of Actuaries, the level of
coverage of life contingencies material is not sufficient to warrant separate administration of
09-25-2002, 02:24 PM
I thought the Stoch models part of Course 3 was from the CAS? Why would they get rid of it?
You guys sound like you think the new CAS exam will be more difficult. Why? I bet the CAS will publish the test and maybe even give you your answers like they use to. That would make it preferable.
09-25-2002, 07:27 PM
Oh, crap! They did this after I study my a$$ of to pass this exam (more than half of which was irrelevant)? They shouldn't have the joint exam in the first place!
09-25-2002, 10:50 PM
It's a shame, especially when the CAS could have accepted the biggest single area of difference, the depth of Life Contingencies material. Since SOA apparently was insisting on other material the CAS didn't want as well, it's understandable they chose to split.
I've enjoyed working with the CAS people on the Course 3 committee, and regret that I'll have no chance to try to recruit any WC Chicks for it.
09-25-2002, 11:09 PM
:P AAALRIGHT, now I can relax a bit and have excuse of waiting til Oct next year to take CAS 3 :P
BTW, the main problem with QRA, as I personally belive, will be having so many college grads with such designation that it'll be almost impossible to get an entry-level position.
I hope CAS will not grant credits through college courses, they have the same rule for granting CAS 1-4 credits from FFA and FIA (UK and Scotland) that attainment must come from exams, not from FFA and FIA designation from transfering foreign exams/courses.
09-26-2002, 01:16 PM
What is the additional material the SOA wanted? I thought all they should want is LC and Ruin Theory?
In the History section from the May 28th 2002 report, I like how they say:
“ The first task force on exams 3 and 4 met before the first exam administration. The task force recommended that some of the material be eliminated…. Much material was eliminated”
Yeah, they met before the first exam, but didn’t remove the excess material until May 2001. They said there was up to 50% too much material covered in the first 2 sittings of course 3.
I realize that no matter what they do to the exams the great normalizer is that you will always be competing against your fellow man, so it is hard to say that one exam is harder than another, but I think it is safe to say that it is more difficult to prepare for an exam on more material and with study material that doesn’t reflect the style of the exam, and only one sample test as a guide for what the actual questions would look like.
Yeah, in order to really test the material on Course 3 it should be broken up into 2 or 3 exams, but come on, unless they go out of their way to make the smaller exams more difficult it seems to me that it will be easier to prepare for these, if not to pass them also. This seems unfair to those who took Course 3, especially when it first came out.
I realize the SOA doesn’t seem to care too much for the concept of fairness, but…
All this changing of exam structure is creating inequality.
09-26-2002, 01:22 PM
If the CSA offers their course 3 at a different time then SOA course 3, could a student technically write them both during the same "sitting". The one you pass determines your eventual designation.
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