View Full Version : An Open Letter to the SoA
Traci
10-10-2002, 03:45 PM
Other threads begged the question - so instead of debating what they SoA SHOULD think and do about it - I just asked them:
Hello,
I administer the actuarial discussion forum at www.actuary.ca - the
Rebel Forum - and I have a question for you:
There has been some discussion about exams 1-4 on our forum. These
discussions include specifics about questions asked on these exams - which, as I understand it - have not been released. I do not believe that these people physically copied the questions - I believe that they are discussing them from memory. However - it has brought up the question: is this in violation of SoA rules?
Some have even talked about trying to recreate the exams by getting several folks together and memorizing the questions. I think we can both agree that this would definitely be a violation and I will not allow this to happen on our forum - but you should know that it will probably happen elsewhere on the internet.
I would like your input and I will post your reply on our website.
Is discussing the specifics of exam questions a violation?
Thank you!
Traci M. Christian
Board Administrator
www.actuary.ca
And the reply:
Hi, Traci:
I agree that I don't think we can forbid candidates from discussing the
specifics of the exam questions on the forum if all the exam
administration has been completed. We had a problem in the past with
candidates discussing questions on the forum when the administration of
that exam in all centers had not been closed. We are not trying to put
up roadblocks to the learning process. However any efforts by
candidates to recreate the exams should not be allowed and we appreciate
your efforts in that regard. By the way, I understand we will be
publishing the Courses 3 and 4 exams this November.
Thank you, Traci.
Pat Holmberg
retaker
10-10-2002, 04:17 PM
Wow, you actually got a real response instead of the form letter, and we even got some new info!
Why not release Course 2 also?
Bama Gambler
10-10-2002, 04:23 PM
I wonder how long they will wait to release the exam. I hope similar to the previous exams.
Dr T Non-Fan
10-10-2002, 06:50 PM
Pat H always replies to my e-mails in a non-standard format.
glenn
10-10-2002, 10:41 PM
Just a few comments:
- the mods get all hopped up during exam season, so I don't see a problem with posts while exams are being written. Anything even borderline gets whacked if I remember correctly, in fact I think last session everyone waited until the next day. Maybe this was different years ago.
- there's only one making the rules _here_, and it ain't the SOA. You can get away with quite a bit here - remember RL's marvellous answer calculator? Plenty of posts and links to it. Nevertheless, it's been made crystal clear repeatedly that breach of exam related rules won't just get you banned and deleted. Here's an excerpt from our posted privacy policy:
<snip>Requests from recognized actuarial organizations for breaches of their rules:
The forum is also used as a community for actuarial students to discuss exam related topics. It is your responsibility as a poster to the forum to observe all rules relevant to any actuarial organization to which you are a member or are a potential member. Specifically, breach of the Society of Actuaries’ or Casualty Actuarial Society’s exam rules will not be tolerated. Upon request from a recognized actuarial organization and where it appears that their rules have been broken, Actuary.ca will take whatever steps it deems necessary to assist with tracking down the culprit. This may include release of your profile information and logged IP address to the organization.</snip>
It's there for a reason, and wasn't posted lightly. Provision of this type of information normally requires a court order to get it out of the owner of a server so I trust it's clear how seriously I feel about this.
retaker
10-11-2002, 09:20 AM
How likely is it that this forum's user info is supplied to the SOA or CAS even if a rule is not technically broken? In other words how hard would it be for someone in the SOA to get a hold of our IP login addresses if, say, we had said some things that p_ssed someone off? :moon:
I am referring to any type of leak - according to the rules or otherwise?
I think it is fair for the users of this site to know how strongly the administrators feel about this privacy issue.
retaker
10-11-2002, 09:38 AM
BTW, the Emoticon wasn't directed to the administrators of the forum, rather just an illustration of someone saying something on the board that might p_ss someone off. :D
glenn
10-11-2002, 10:35 AM
How likely is it that this forum's user info is supplied to the SOA or CAS even if a rule is not technically broken?
Uh-huh. Oooooookay.
Retaker=Phil. Pass it on.
retaker
10-11-2002, 11:23 AM
waa waaa waa. You gave away my name. :bighug:
Traci
10-11-2002, 02:17 PM
I think it is fair for the users of this site to know how strongly the administrators feel about this privacy issue.
Suffice to say - *I'M* the only one you have to worry about p*ssing off!
:D
retaker
10-11-2002, 02:25 PM
Yes Maam!
Could you please post your manifesto, so that I can avoid offending you?
:notworth: :D
Dr T Non-Fan
10-11-2002, 02:29 PM
She's right.
If you dare take a suggestion, you could post a sticky topic at the top of the exam sections reminding everyone not to discuss exams, and that after some time it would be ok. And that time would be (IMO) an hour after the Hawaii exams were completed.
By then Hawaii will be five hours behind EST.
Traci
10-11-2002, 02:39 PM
Could you please post your manifesto, so that I can avoid offending you?
Well - that would just make it too EASY for you! :)
retaker
10-11-2002, 02:48 PM
:-?
The Drunken Actuary
10-12-2002, 09:32 PM
Do what I do - don't talk about exams at all, and you won't get into trouble. Unless you start cursing.
retaker
10-14-2002, 08:49 AM
Yeah, that is undoubtedly the best policy, but I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. Well, hopefully they won't blacklist me. :) If I don't pass this time, I will be very suspicious. I believe the SOA is fair about their exam process. I would be surprised to hear that the SOA fails or passes certain candidates who don't deserve it. I have heard that this is a problem with the Bar exam in some states.
The Drunken Actuary
10-14-2002, 11:02 AM
I meant you won't get in trouble with Traci. I doubt highly that your mouthing off here would get a passing score turned into a failing score. :D
Cynic
10-14-2002, 05:43 PM
Never mention separate exam threads, or any kind of separation of threads.
Dr T Non-Fan
10-14-2002, 05:49 PM
That's not an issue for Dr T, as it has been closed for over a year now. Like her mind.
Traci
10-14-2002, 09:20 PM
It's a matter of principle now! :D
Dr T Non-Fan
10-15-2002, 02:24 AM
Oh, so it's about the money, eh?
Traci
10-15-2002, 09:26 AM
You got it!
10 G's and it's yours!
(small bills please)
Never let it be said that I can't be bought.
Dr T Non-Fan
10-15-2002, 04:41 PM
GGGGGGGGG
(Yes, I'm trying to negotiate.)
Pi Man
10-15-2002, 05:07 PM
i offer GGGGGGGGGg
Why not release Course 2 also?
I'd guess they're releasing 3 and 4 only because the readings have changed a bit. The SoA isn't too keen on releasing exams.
What readings changed for Course 3?
Steve White
10-18-2002, 09:38 PM
Several topics were removed from the syllabus after Nov 2000, so some of the questions on the May and Nov 2000 exams no longer are on the syllabus.
There have been no important additions to the syllabus. The Klugman study note replaced similar material originally from Loss Models. It contains small amounts of new material, and does a much better job of explaining the material that it replaced.
Right - but these things were changed for the last sitting so nothing is new or changed for this sitting from the last.
So why would they not release the May 2002 exams but they are going to release this sitting?
burton leon reynolds
10-21-2002, 12:35 PM
Right - but these things were changed for the last sitting so nothing is new or changed for this sitting from the last.
So why would they not release the May 2002 exams but they are going to release this sitting?
Easy now ... don't get them to thinkin that they shouldn't release the exams.
Steve White
10-22-2002, 08:15 PM
Right - but these things were changed for the last sitting so nothing is new or changed for this sitting from the last.
So why would they not release the May 2002 exams but they are going to release this sitting?
The SOA was releasing some but not all of the 100-series exams in the pre-2000 structure. For Course 150, it was every third one or every fourth one.
I don't know their plans for any of Courses 1-4, but if they intend to release some but not all it would make more sense to accelerate 3 and 4 where there was some change to the syllabus, rather than 1 or 2 where there are already four available on the present syllabus.
urysohn
10-23-2002, 02:48 PM
Not to get off on a tangent, but I thought Pat retired a couple years ago and was replaced by Cathy Cimo?
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