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Anonymous
09-12-2001, 12:01 PM
After 24 hours of news coverage, I have a lot to say. I'm gonna say it and I'm not gonna edit it. I hope some of it makes sense.

Under normal circumstances, on this, a Wednesday morning--right this very minute-- I'd be at my desk, studying for the Course 5 exam. But obviously, in light of the Tuesday's events, to even think of doing so would be nothing less than an insult to the memory of those who died and a slap in the face to the families and to the nation as a whole. Rather than trying to cram more useless lists into my head, I think what America needs today, far more than my knowledge of the fine points of pension funding methods, is a dose of perspective.

Tuesday was a total wake-up call.

None of you on this board have know me.
Like a lot of us, I showed up on the net four or five years ago, and thanks to my ability to spew venom in an amusing manner and (occasionally) to analyze things, I've managed to attain some level of visibility on a few other fora.

For the last few years, I've been apathetic and apolitical. I argue it with people, I'd bash Clinton or Gore, but since I got out of school in '92 and started chasing the benjamins, I really couldn't have given less of a d*mn. Today, all of that changes. I've felt stirrings as I sat and watched the news that I haven't felt in years.

It wasn't that long ago that I was a very different animal. I used to be a hard-core political type. I worked on campaigns from President to the Nebraska Unicameral. It wasn't for power or glory. It was because I used to care enough to want to make a difference. I used to have a tad-bit of idealism. I used to think, from time to time, of how much I had and give thanks for the fact that this nation has provided us with so much freedom and so much opportunity, and the relative security to take advantage of both--that a lot of us have attained things beyond the imaginations of our ancestors when they first hit the shores of Ellis Island over a century ago.

And in return, this country asks d*mned little of us. Pay your taxes. Vote. Teach your kids the Pledge of Alliegance, and if you're inclined, be a good neighbor. A lot of folks really don't do much more than that. But I was always taught that if you have the ability to do more, and the opportunity arises, that you need to step the hell up.

My generation has had it easy. We haven't had to fight WW II or choose Canada or Vietnam. We've had Grenada, and we've had Kuwait. Any by this day and age, war has evolved into a push-button, high-tech Tom Clancy kind of thing. Even if we weren't rapidly hitting the point where we're too old to go, the nature of warfare is such that we likely won't be needed in the same way that we might have 20 years ago.

We may not be called upon to carry rifles or take beaches. So we have to find other ways to step up.

Reasonable men can differ on how we wound up in a posture that would allow a thing like today to happen. It's easy to blame the intelligence community--and frankly, I think some of it has to go on their door--yet, the Israelis, who have the most sophisticated and clocked-in intelligence network on Earth, didn't even know that this was coming. We could blame Clinton or Congress for slashing military budgets and leaving our armed forces and our intelligence community a mere shell of what it was in the 80's--but there is some merit to the argument that the end of the Cold War changed our priorities. And anyway--this isn't the time for pointing fingers. This is a time to pull together.

We should all blame ourselves. We need to be a better-informed, more-involved citizenry. We need to hold our leaders--whatever party they may be--accountable for bad decisions. We need to understand the issues that underly our country's policy--particularly foreign and military policy. We need to quit electing folks who don't have the will to make the tough, unpopular decisions. We could've gone after these *******s long ago. We have the resources. Don't tell me we don't know where Osama Bin Laden is hiding--if JFK Junior could find him to interview him, I;m pretty sure a SEAL team could find his a$$. We just don't want to risk the diplomatic fallout. We could've finished off Saddam Hussein ten years ago--but we were afraid of the world community (like, ahem, the french) disapproving of our actions. I could give a million other examples, but I'm hoping you all get the point by now.

It's time for all of us to quit turning our back on politics, government and the issues that face our nation. Jefferson once said that an ignorant people cannot long remain free--to that effect. We've gotten so accustomed to things being blissful and status quo in this country that a lot of us don't feel like we have to care. I know that for involved as I used to be, I've been a miserable piker of a citizen since roughly July of 1992. But the events of this day should be enough to show us all that now, more than ever, we have to care. We have to be committed. We have to pledge ourselves to do whatever we can to ensure that the things that happened to our nation today never happen again--and, more important, that we don't end up sacrificing our open society and our way of life as the trade-in.

This is not a partisan rant. Whatever party you are, when it comes to the security of this nation and our neighbors, just as it was for so many years, our differences must end at the water's edge.

If you already care, put it into action. And if you've been sleeping for the last however many years, give a d*mn.

Hold Congressmen and Senators accountable. It has to be about more than who produces the better commercial.

Anonymous
09-12-2001, 12:06 PM
Here's your note:

Me me me me me me

Some relevant, but obvious stuff NOT about you

Me me me me me me

Feel good about yourself?

Dr T Non-Fan
09-12-2001, 12:28 PM
Good rant.
Please get a unique name, and join in. Won't be able to tell you from the others.

Apart from arresting double-spies, I'm at a loss to determine what our intelligence community has been doing lately. Unless it was some very unattached group of terrorists, this is a serious ball-dropping of Bin Laden-monitoring. As we can now see, he doesn't have to have the means, or even be nearby. Just a cell phone saying, "Do it."

There was a report of a car containing a flight instruction manual in arabic, the Koran, and a fuel-distance calculator. I don't know if this was an abandoned attempt, as these three things would be needed on the plane.

Our own commercial planes are now weapons. Does each flight need an armed guard? Maybe more restrictive access to the cockpit, like an armored car's?

G. Ringo
09-12-2001, 01:52 PM
How about no access to the cockpit? Give the cockpit its own external door, bathroom, and food storage facilities. Put a bulletproof wall with no door between the cockpit and the cabin. Provide a single switch in the cabin that can turn off a light in the cockpit, which can then not be turned back on in flight, to signal an emergency, in which case the pilot must land at the nearest airport. Provide the cabin crew with radio equipment on which to order any needed assistance (such as police, fire, or ambulance) at that airport. Do not provide any way of transmitting more than one bit of information to the pilot (so that highjackers cannot issue orders and threats).

true progressive
05-01-2006, 03:51 PM
This is not a partisan rant. Whatever party you are, when it comes to the security of this nation and our neighbors, just as it was for so many years, our differences must end at the water's edge.


Dear Anonomous, I know when you wrote this 24 hours after 9/11, you thought the democrats would feel the same way.

I did too, but I'm not surprised. No for them, despite 9/11, politics begins at the water's edge... the dems made it a new frontier.

It was interesting to go back and view the raw emotion from that day. I look forward to seeing "United 93", I think it's too soon for the democrats for sure. The election isn't here yet, this movie may force them to bring their politics back to our water's edge for a while... mmmm, nah.

UNCORRELATED LAY
05-01-2006, 03:57 PM
Dear Anonomous, I know when you wrote this 24 hours after 9/11, you thought the democrats would feel the same way.

I did too, but I'm not surprised. No for them, despite 9/11, politics begins at the water's edge... the dems made it a new frontier.

It was interesting to go back and view the raw emotion from that day. I look forward to seeing "United 93", I think it's too soon for the democrats for sure. The election isn't here yet, this movie may force them to bring their politics back to our water's edge for a while... mmmm, nah.
both "United 93" & "9/11" out later in the year make me want to :exams: I have no desire to poor salt in partially healed wounds.

I have no reason to believe the original writer was thinking about dems and reps, rather the need to make the USA a secure place to live. And to erase threats before they come over here.

_BullDog_
05-01-2006, 04:06 PM
Gee, I read this thread title and thought, It's only monday....

The Drunken Actuary
05-01-2006, 04:08 PM
Dear Anonomous, I know when you wrote this 24 hours after 9/11, you thought the democrats would feel the same way.

I did too, but I'm not surprised. No for them, despite 9/11, politics begins at the water's edge... the dems made it a new frontier.

It was interesting to go back and view the raw emotion from that day. I look forward to seeing "United 93", I think it's too soon for the democrats for sure. The election isn't here yet, this movie may force them to bring their politics back to our water's edge for a while... mmmm, nah.:meltdown:

tymesup
05-01-2006, 04:12 PM
:meltdown:

literally

The Drunken Actuary
05-01-2006, 04:14 PM
literallyHmm. This names looks familiar. I think I had a theory about who you are. But now I don't remember it.

Hummer
05-01-2006, 04:29 PM
both "United 93" & "9/11" out later in the year make me want to :exams: I have no desire to poor salt in partially healed wounds.
Do you watch old war movies, or any movies that involve historical events?

[Caveat: this post does not intend to make any comment about Hollywood's ability to separate fact from fiction]

tymesup
05-01-2006, 04:38 PM
Hmm. This names looks familiar. I think I had a theory about who you are. But now I don't remember it.

To clarify, your post was "meltdown". My post of "literally" referred to the steel support beams at the Towers that melted.

The Mad Hatter
05-01-2006, 06:05 PM
Dear Anonomous, I know when you wrote this 24 hours after 9/11, you thought the democrats would feel the same way.

I did too, but I'm not surprised. No for them, despite 9/11, politics begins at the water's edge... the dems made it a new frontier.

It was interesting to go back and view the raw emotion from that day. I look forward to seeing "United 93", I think it's too soon for the democrats for sure. The election isn't here yet, this movie may force them to bring their politics back to our water's edge for a while... mmmm, nah.

Yeah, the GOP never exploited 9/11 for political gain. :roll:

true progressive
05-01-2006, 06:45 PM
both "United 93" & "9/11" out later in the year make me want to I have no desire to poor salt in partially healed wounds.

I have no reason to believe the original writer was thinking about dems and reps, rather the need to make the USA a secure place to live. And to erase threats before they come over here.


So for you it's too soon? When do you suppose it'll be time for you?

The same people screaming "too soon" didn't seem to have a problem with Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, which is the ultimate Horshack test for utter stupidity. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy... "IF YOU-U-U-U STAYED AND WATCHED ALL OF FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A TOTAL IDIOT!"

I don't think the original poster wrote this in terms of dems vs. reps either. I think a lot of people who have gone to sleep already about the threat of terrorism, thought this immediately following 911.

Some of us still feel this way, some us didn't need 911 to understand it.

"IF YOU WANT TO PUKE AT THE THOUGHT OF WATCHING 'UNITED 93', BUT LOVED FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A COMPETE AND UTTER IDIOT!"

whisper
05-01-2006, 07:07 PM
So for you it's too soon? When do you suppose it'll be time for you?

The same people screaming "too soon" didn't seem to have a problem with Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, which is the ultimate Horshack test for utter stupidity. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy... "IF YOU-U-U-U STAYED AND WATCHED ALL OF FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A TOTAL IDIOT!"

I don't think the original poster wrote this in terms of dems vs. reps either. I think a lot of people who have gone to sleep already about the threat of terrorism, thought this immediately following 911.

Some of us still feel this way, some us didn't need 911 to understand it.

"IF YOU WANT TO PUKE AT THE THOUGHT OF WATCHING 'UNITED 93', BUT LOVED FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A COMPETE AND UTTER IDIOT!"

:meltdown:

You definitely need to see a doctor. You're brain is just not getting enough oxygen.

Lucy
05-01-2006, 08:45 PM
*sigh*

We need to draft better.You got Sam. He's not a bad draft choice.

I'm not sure whether I want to see this movie. Not because it's too soon, but because it's real. I'm not sure I want to see it at all.

I saw Hotel Rwanda and felt ill for a week. And it didn't propel me to any particular action, since I couldn't think of anything especially useful to do. This probably isn't as bad as Hotel Rwanda (although that had a "happy" ending and I presume everyone dies at the end of United 93) Still, I doubt it'll make for a fun night.

Maybe I should write to my elected representatives about Darfur. I wish I knew what to say.

The Drunken Actuary
05-01-2006, 10:47 PM
To clarify, your post was "meltdown". My post of "literally" referred to the steel support beams at the Towers that melted.Yeah, I followed all that. I might be drunk but I'm not as dumb as griffin. Thanks!

SirVLCIV
05-01-2006, 11:24 PM
So for you it's too soon? When do you suppose it'll be time for you?

The same people screaming "too soon" didn't seem to have a problem with Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, which is the ultimate Horshack test for utter stupidity. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy... "IF YOU-U-U-U STAYED AND WATCHED ALL OF FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A TOTAL IDIOT!"

I don't think the original poster wrote this in terms of dems vs. reps either. I think a lot of people who have gone to sleep already about the threat of terrorism, thought this immediately following 911.

Some of us still feel this way, some us didn't need 911 to understand it.

"IF YOU WANT TO PUKE AT THE THOUGHT OF WATCHING 'UNITED 93', BUT LOVED FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A COMPETE AND UTTER IDIOT!"

D00d - you're dumb. Shut up.

Edited to add: kthxbai.

UNCORRELATED LAY
05-02-2006, 07:56 AM
So for you it's too soon? When do you suppose it'll be time for you?

The same people screaming "too soon" didn't seem to have a problem with Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, which is the ultimate Horshack test for utter stupidity. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy... "IF YOU-U-U-U STAYED AND WATCHED ALL OF FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A TOTAL IDIOT!"

I don't think the original poster wrote this in terms of dems vs. reps either. I think a lot of people who have gone to sleep already about the threat of terrorism, thought this immediately following 911.

Some of us still feel this way, some us didn't need 911 to understand it.

"IF YOU WANT TO PUKE AT THE THOUGHT OF WATCHING 'UNITED 93', BUT LOVED FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A COMPETE AND UTTER IDIOT!"
WTF??

Did I ever say I loved F911? No because I thought it was also a waste of a movie. The reason why I don't want to see either of the upcoming movies is due to emotions. A day like 9/11 leaves a mark on someone and until that mark is healed it would be too painful to relive the day through movies. I don't think this in unreasonable or uncommon.

UNCORRELATED LAY
05-02-2006, 07:58 AM
Do you watch old war movies, or any movies that involve historical events?

[Caveat: this post does not intend to make any comment about Hollywood's ability to separate fact from fiction]
I imagine that if I lived through Vietnam I would have a problem with some of the war movies. But then time does have the ability to heal wounds. I just don't think that I am ready to see these movies (yet)

UNCORRELATED LAY
05-02-2006, 08:00 AM
I would like to see it. And I say that knowing that the producer is a liberal.

From the reviews I've heard, the movie very much leaves politics at the door, doesn't invent needless heart-tugging stories for some particular hero of the day. It just tells the story as accurately as it can from cell phone records and such, and filing in the details in a believable way.

If true, that would be the very meaning of a respectful way to tell the story. I can understand why some won't want to see it, and that's fine. But I don't see any reason why it's inappropriate.
welcome back.

I don't think it is inappropriate, Just makes me sick to think about.

The President
05-02-2006, 08:24 AM
In the words of Jeff Foxworthy... "IF YOU-U-U-U STAYED AND WATCHED ALL OF FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A TOTAL IDIOT!"....

"IF YOU WANT TO PUKE AT THE THOUGHT OF WATCHING 'UNITED 93', BUT LOVED FAHRENHEIT 911... YOU MIGHT JUST BE A COMPETE AND UTTER IDIOT!"
It is hard to take seriously someone who quotes Jeff Foxworthy to make a point about anything.

Guerilla poster
05-02-2006, 09:35 AM
We had an opportunity to change the world instead we invaded Iraq. Opportunities lead to decisions, some good some bad.

Ronald Reagan
05-02-2006, 09:42 AM
It is hard to take seriously someone who quotes Jeff Foxworthy to make a point about anything.

And that is one of his most logical arguments...

fallout
05-02-2006, 09:45 AM
We had an opportunity to change the world instead we invaded Iraq. Opportunities lead to decisions, some good some bad.


Invading Iraq did change the world.

SirVLCIV
05-02-2006, 11:09 AM
I think he meant 'for the better'.

SamTheEagle
05-02-2006, 11:16 AM
You got Sam. He's not a bad draft choice.


Yeah, but I've been too busy making rap albums to play.

Hummer
05-02-2006, 12:02 PM
I imagine that if I lived through Vietnam I would have a problem with some of the war movies. But then time does have the ability to heal wounds. I just don't think that I am ready to see these movies (yet)
Fair enough. That was the purpose of my question was to find out if it was time or message. I can understand it being too close. My grandfather didn't speak much about WWII and my dad is fairly silent on Vietnam.

Foamy
05-02-2006, 12:29 PM
Yeah, I followed all that. I might be drunk but I'm not as dumb as griffin. Thanks!
He was wise enough to buy velcro shoes.

true progressive
05-02-2006, 06:40 PM
*sigh*

We need to draft better.


If you're referring to yourself or Brett Favre, I tend to agree.

The Drunken Actuary
08-11-2009, 11:36 AM
He was wise enough to buy velcro shoes.

You make a vaild point.

Listeria
08-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I thought it was a vaild threat.