A dilemma, please advise - underwriter job or exam P?

[watzinaname]

I hope this is the appropriate place for this thread.

I have a slight dilemma that I really need advice on (need to decide within a couple of days) - getting a fulltime underwriter assistant job or just concentrating on studying for Exam P in May.

I graduated from college more than 4 years ago, with a degree in molecular & cell biology. Fast forward those 4+ years, now I've decided to hopefully pursue a career in actuary. I am not a career changer since I've never had a "career". I've had a number of parttime and fulltime jobs, mostly teaching (and mostly high school math at after school educational centers). But it was just that, a job. Because of my family situation, I've had to stay home a lot - therefore I was not able to work a lot. Now everything's more settled and going smoothly, I am able to plan my life and hopefully start a career that I feel is a good fit for me. I took 2 semesters of calculus while in college. Then after I graduated, sometime in the past few years, I took a 3rd semester calculus and an intro stat class at a community college. The calculus class was very well taught - it covered all the material needed for Exam P. The stat class on the other hand was very elementary - not much help for the exam. I also took a biomath class at a university which involved simple stochastic modeling. It was one of the things that led me to actuary, but that's another story.

Since I have no background in anything even remotely related to the actuarial/insurance/financial field. I thought it might be a good idea to apply for this underwriter assistant job about a month or two ago. I went in for an interview and was told to wait for a 2nd interview. After checking in with them twice with no answer, I decided to move on and that I should probably just concentrate on studying for Exam P in May anyway. I took Exam P last May or September (I really don't remember), but didn't pass it. So I thought I should put in a lot more effort and make sure I pass it this time around.

Sure enough, as I planned out my study schedule for the next few months, I get a call from them asking me if I was still interested in going in for a 2nd interview. What should I do? I know a few of you would always answer "pass an exam and get back to us." However, would this job be beneficial to me given that I have no background whatsoever? I think it would be very difficult for me to hold a fulltime job and study at the same time. I still need to divide up my time to help out my family for a while longer. I know I'm saying this a little early since I am only going in for a 2nd interview. I may or may not get the job. BUt should I even bother? I'm leaning towards just concentrating on my studying. Would that be the better choice?

Also, If earning money wasn't an issue, what would your choice be?
What if it was an issue?

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I am very confused right now and would need to make a decision soon. So please advise!!! Thanks!!

[tommie frazier]

do both for now.

[micaelagb]

I agree w/ Tommie. Studying while working and taking care of family obligations are status quo for lots of us. It can certainly be done, and you'll learn a lot of insurance lingo in the underwriting job.

[watzinaname]

oh, ic. thank you very much for your advice.

micaelagb - so what is your schedule like? how many hrs of studying do you get done a day? how long before a test do you start studying? 3 months? what about others in the same situation? any input would be greatly appreciated. =)

have any of you done underwriting before? if so, could you please comment on the work? what did you like about it? what did you not like about it? why did you switch?

if i don't end up getting offered the position, or don't end up taking it, what are my chances of landing a job after i pass exam P given my background (or lack of it)?

[tommie frazier]

studying varies per person. 3 months is a reasonable starting point, but 4-5 is better. it takes a while for the knowledge to sink in, and means you may actually be ahead of tschedule instead of desparately trying to catch up.

hrs per day varies dep on family. I tried to get 1-3 hrs per night, after kids went to bed. not easy or fun, but had to do it. weekends were hard for me, pretty much the same sched (late night).

can't speak to your job prospects, but having an exam passed is typically a plus for a candidate (compared with none, all other things being equal).

if the UW job is the only one prospect you have, then certainly take it if offered. (job and money >> neither) it's in the industry at least, and might help some day if you continue to take actuarial exams.

[Hokus]

I'm pretty much in agreeance (Fred Durst reference) with Tommie and Micaelagb. I'm currently working as an underwriter and studying for exams on my free time. I don't have kids so I'm assuming I have a little more free time than you, but I try to get in 2-3 hours a night on weeknights and at least 4 hours a day on weekends.
What line of insurance would you be in?

As a sidenote if you're in P&C- your company might pay for CPCU exams which would be somewhat beneficial since some of that material appears on later actuarial exams and one of the CPCU exams will give you VEE credit. I realize that does nothing for your free time though!

[watzinaname]

I don't have kids but I do have an autistic brother to take care of (jr high). He doesn't sleep much - around 11-12. So my free time doesn't start until then. That's why I'm not sure if it is possible for me to work and study, on top of about 1 hr commute each way to this job due to traffic.

The UW job is the only prospect I have in the industry mainly cuz it is the only related job I applied and had a chance for. =P Would my job prospects be greatly increased if I ended up getting this job AND pass Exam P? Or would it just help my personal knowledge? Would companies care much?

Tommie, I"M not sure what you meant by " (job and money >> neither)"?

This company is actually a small local insurance agency, not a carrier themselves. Here are their products - commercial/personal lines, workers comp, group/indiv health, liability, cargo. A friend who happened to know this company just told me that their underwriters mainly just get quotes from the carriers and paper push, and that they get mistreated/pushed around by their not-so-polite sales people. He doesn't think I would benefit much, He's in sales at another, but same type of company. Hmmm....perhaps this is just specific to these 2 agencies?? Hokus?

[tommie frazier]

can you move closer to jobs?

if not, then it will be hard, as you are v busy at home.

I meant that having a job and the money it brings is much greater or bettern than having neither. thus, if it is your only employent option, pursue it, esp if it related (perhaps even tangentially) to your ultimate eployment goal.

everyone's emplopyment prospects improve with passing exams. some companies would care more than others, but all will care.

[piscfish]

I actually just read a post in the career-employement section and one of the job to get insurance experience from is being a underwriter. I think it will be great for you to do both. Most of the people posting here are full-time employee with limited time to study (I am too). If we can do it, so can you. I also think that you can learn a great deal from the company with the not-so-polite sales and misc. tough stuff. Get out of your comfort zone and kick ass. If you can prove yourself to the prospect actuarial interviewer that you have the skill and the ability to overcome and even make better in the company, then, the chance of get hired just increased tremendously. Keep in mind that there are always people who do above and beyond in their area of responsiblity.

[watzinaname]

I can't move closer because my family can't move closer. We've actually just moved a lot closer from a BFE place. =P I used to live closer but had to move back home for my brother for the time being. How long I am needed at home is indefinite but we're trying to work that out.

Oh, I meant would my employment prospects in the actuarial field improve by getting this UW job? I know passing exams is the most important thing. How important would this job be, on top of exams, in companies' eyes?

Hmmm....maybe I should just not work and study for the exam first. Then try to find other related jobs immediately after the exam, while continuing searching for an actuarial job and study for the next exam (since FM is easier, right?), assuming I pass P. It is probably more feasible for me, and also my family situation may have improved by then....

[watzinaname]

Oops, I posted my last reply before I realized piscfish had written one, so if it seems out of order, it is. =P That makes a lot of sense, though. Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions.

[Hokus]

I don't have kids but I do have an autistic brother to take care of (jr high). He doesn't sleep much - around 11-12. So my free time doesn't start until then. That's why I'm not sure if it is possible for me to work and study, on top of about 1 hr commute each way to this job due to traffic.

The UW job is the only prospect I have in the industry mainly cuz it is the only related job I applied and had a chance for. =P Would my job prospects be greatly increased if I ended up getting this job AND pass Exam P? Or would it just help my personal knowledge? Would companies care much?

Tommie, I"M not sure what you meant by " (job and money >> neither)"?

This company is actually a small local insurance agency, not a carrier themselves. Here are their products - commercial/personal lines, workers comp, group/indiv health, liability, cargo. A friend who happened to know this company just told me that their underwriters mainly just get quotes from the carriers and paper push, and that they get mistreated/pushed around by their not-so-polite sales people. He doesn't think I would benefit much, He's in sales at another, but same type of company. Hmmm....perhaps this is just specific to these 2 agencies?? Hokus?


Sorry, I guess I quickly read your post and assumed you meant kids. :spnner:

To be honest, a good night for me is if I start studying before 10:00. I'm usually up studying until midnight or even past 1:00. It's hard, but I think you can do it too.

I've had an actuary tell me that experience in the insurance industry is a definite plus. I started out at an agency and then moved into underwriting. So, while this job may not land you an actuarial position right away, maybe it could serve as a stepping stone and resume builder for a job at the home office of a company (if and when you're able to move closer I guess) where you can get to know people, get to know the company and you can stay on top of the actuarial opportunities. Learning the insurance lingo and the business is only going to help in the long run.

Sales and underwriting are at odds a lot of the time. Underwriters have to make decisions that sales don't like and sales will usually try to get more and more out of the underwriters. So, I wouldn't say this is highly unusual, but I guess the amount of head-butting varies from company to company. I guess you'll have to decide what your tolerance is for this sort of thing.

All in all, the biggest thing is passing the exams. I agree with Piscfish, the best scenario is for you to take the job and study for exam P. Good luck!

[watzinaname]

From all the great responses it is apparent that the ideal situation would be to try to get this job and work at the same time. I really appreciate all your input - thanks a lot!

Hokus mentioned that the biggest thing is still passing the exam. So what if you MUST pick between the two?
1. Pass the exam, forget about work. Without exams, I will never get an actuarial job. However, I can try to find similar job opportunities after May.
or
2. Get/take the job. Underwriter assistant jobs are actually hard to come by, and most require experience. I can always take P again if i don't pass (altho I already failed it before). However, without a related education or experience, even with 1 or 2 exams, it would be unlikely for me to get an actuarial position.

I just wanted to know what my priorities should be if I absolutely MUST choose. Thanks again!

[tommie frazier]

what do you do now for work? if the money will be lifealtering, take the uw job. exams will always be there.

[watzinaname]

I am not working right now. So yes, any money would be life-altering for me, regardless of amount. Since I am able to look for work now, I will try to do both. Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I really appreciate it. I am going in for my 2nd interview next week. I really really hope I get this job. Any advice for me is welcome. =)

One last question, what are my chances of getting a summer, or any kinda of, actuarial internship? Are they meant for college students only? Or will I be considered if and after I pass Exam P? I asked the question as a reply within the "summer internship" thread in "Career - Employment" but did not get a response. Thanks.

[tommie frazier]

intern vs perm job has been covered. they're mostly for students only. u want full time-apply for that

[watzinaname]

ic, that's the impression i got but i didn't read a thread that actually stated that. maybe i missed it. thanks tommie.

[silverfox]

The obvious answer is both.