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moj
11-06-2001, 01:03 PM
I have had an interesting job prospect that would mean a shift of my actuarial work from standard P&C pricing and reserving to Accident & Health pricing and reserving. I am an ACAS, but A&H work is usually performed by people in the SOA.

I have a number of questions for anyone who has switched from the SOA side to the P&C side, or vice-versa:
1. How did you market yourself when applying for jobs?
2. How did employers view your exam progress in the "other" society?
3. Does it make sense for a P&C actuary to work on A&H without pursuing an FSA?
4. Where does the SOA stand on "mutual recognition"?

Any other input you have would be appreciated.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: moj on 2001-11-06 13:04 ]</font>

Maine-iac
11-06-2001, 01:25 PM
You rang?

1. I only applied for the one job. I switched because I had moved here, and P&C was the only game in town. The pitch? Health (non-disability) and P&C are more similar than different. Both are short-duration coverages, so pricing and reserving are more P&C oriented than oriented toward traditional life and disability techniques.
2. I was the only actuary in town. P&C credentials would have been nice, but they were happy with any reasonable credentials that could save consulting dollars. I offered to pursue at least an ACAS, but that was more for my own edification than any requirement for the job.
3. You could be perfectly happy without an ASA or FSA if you stay with short-term coverages. If you are contemplating moving into long-duration health lines (disability), and ASA or FSA would be helpful. If you are thinking Blue Cross/HMO/PPO type work, there are useful things on the SOA syllabus, but the ACAS should do you fine. The president of the Blue I worked for who retired just before I started there was an FCAS.
4. The SOA is closer conceptually to "mutual recognition" than the CAS is, but neither is going to jump without the other, so it could be a long wait. I was hoping to see real progress toward mutuality, in which case I would stop at ACAS, but I don't see it coming anytime soon. Rats.

Health work is interesting, and rapidly evolving. I enjoyed it, although the regulation is a nightmare. Reserving is less of a regulatory mess than pricing, though.

Good luck!

moj
11-07-2001, 07:25 AM
Thanks Maine-iac. I figured that you would respond.

You bring up good points. I don;t know if I could start taking the SOA exams since I only have 1 & 2 under their system, but I am an ACAS. The thought of taking another 5 exams to get an ASA is not trilling.

See ya on the cooler.

moj

Maine-iac
11-07-2001, 11:43 AM
One other thought.

If you are apt to find yourself in a rate hearing, I did once have an adversary try to imply that my ASA was insufficient for the work I was doing. It didn't get very far with the regulator, but they tried. (They once got a team of statisticians up there who claimed we couldn't do stats properly as well. That didn't go over either.)

In a hearing situation, you usually have to provide a cirriculum vitae with your credentials. I still think an ACAS would be sufficient, but an adversary could bring up your credentials, especially if your experience was light at that point.

I've never been in a hearing where the credentials of the dueling experts made any real difference to the outcome.

If you are strictly reserving, and meet the AAA qualification standards, you should have no problems.

therealsylvos
01-05-2016, 08:14 PM
One other thought.

If you are apt to find yourself in a rate hearing, I did once have an adversary try to imply that my ASA was insufficient for the work I was doing. It didn't get very far with the regulator, but they tried. (They once got a team of statisticians up there who claimed we couldn't do stats properly as well. That didn't go over either.)

In a hearing situation, you usually have to provide a cirriculum vitae with your credentials. I still think an ACAS would be sufficient, but an adversary could bring up your credentials, especially if your experience was light at that point.

I've never been in a hearing where the credentials of the dueling experts made any real difference to the outcome.

If you are strictly reserving, and meet the AAA qualification standards, you should have no problems.

I've never heard of anything like this but I'm super intrigued...Adversary? Like a nemesis? What's the story here? Is this still a thing?

Abelian Grape
01-05-2016, 08:16 PM
I've never heard of anything like this but I'm super intrigued...Adversary? Like a nemesis? What's the story here? Is this still a thing?

Did they not assign you an actuarial arch-nemesis?

therealsylvos
01-05-2016, 08:17 PM
Did they not assign you an actuarial arch-nemesis?

Is it not you?

Abelian Grape
01-05-2016, 08:20 PM
No, mine works in Cali I think.

therealsylvos
01-05-2016, 08:21 PM
Oh...I have one too then. You guys wouldn't know her...she works at another company.

whoanonstop
01-05-2016, 08:22 PM
I've never heard of anything like this but I'm super intrigued...Adversary? Like a nemesis? What's the story here? Is this still a thing?

I hope so. This sounds awesome. Can we vote to choose people with credentials at random to prove themselves each year? I think that would be a blast.

What were you searching for to get this? :lol: Thinking about switching out of P&C? Can't handle the lyfe?

-Riley

therealsylvos
01-05-2016, 08:24 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1310794862_Fif.jpg

Domingo Montoya
01-05-2016, 09:15 PM
Oh...I have one too then. You guys wouldn't know her...she works at another company.

:lol:

therealsylvos
01-05-2016, 09:24 PM
But seriously, I did see a job posting that seemed interesting, it was with a P&C company but the lob was A&H. Apparently there is a blurring of the lines between the two societies in A&H? Can anyone shed some light?

Abelian Grape
01-05-2016, 09:26 PM
We have an ASA on here doing A&H work :shrug:

Intentional Deviation
01-05-2016, 10:06 PM
The "A" is more P&C. It is accident, so think occurrence.
The "H" is more Health. It is medical, so think claims made.

Different ratemaking requirements. If a P&C company is writing mostly PA (personal accident) they would be better served by an actuary with a P&C background.

A lot of companies need A&H ratemaking actuaries now, because A&H rates are getting a lot more attention now due to PPACA.

Captain Oveur
01-05-2016, 11:53 PM
Damn, sick bump

therealsylvos
01-06-2016, 10:48 AM
The "A" is more P&C. It is accident, so think occurrence.
The "H" is more Health. It is medical, so think claims made.

Different ratemaking requirements. If a P&C company is writing mostly PA (personal accident) they would be better served by an actuary with a P&C background.

A lot of companies need A&H ratemaking actuaries now, because A&H rates are getting a lot more attention now due to PPACA.

Thanks.

How would commercial A&H coverage differ from workers comp?

Abelian Grape
01-06-2016, 10:50 AM
np

Intentional Deviation
01-06-2016, 05:27 PM
Thanks.

How would commercial A&H coverage differ from workers comp?

WC provides indemnity benefits (think LTD and survivor benefits) and uncapped medical benefits for workers

A&H would address the needs of the non-worker market (travel, groups, schools, amateur athletes, and would typically provide AD&D and/or low limit medical benefits that would integrate with the inured's health care plan.

But the risk profile and pricing techniques for commercial A&H (emphasis on the "A") is similar to WC. Lots of high frequency, low severity losses and a few of the opposite.

A&H is tricky because the non-healthcare A&H data you need, tends to get buried as a small subset within with the massive volume of healthcare data.