Man gets 30 years for plotting to murder Bush

[2pac Shakur]

In arguing for life imprisonment, prosecuting attorney David Laufman said, "It is simply chilling to contemplate that this defendant might ever walk the streets of this country again."

Laufman said Abu Ali was unrepentant, remorseless and dangerous. "Al Qaeda could not have found a more ideal operative to carry out terrorist attacks inside the United States," he said.

Abu Ali appeared in court wearing a dark green prison jumpsuit with the word "PRISONER" in white letters on the back, his black hair neatly combed and his beard trimmed. He declined the judge's offer to make a statement before his sentence was read out.

His mother, father, a sister and a brother sat impassively in the courtroom during sentencing, flanked by several rows of friends and supporters.

Abu Ali, who lived in the Washington suburb of Falls Church, Virginia, was arrested in June 2003 while studying at a Saudi university and was held in Saudi custody for 20 months before returning to the United States after being indicted.

In Saudi Arabia, he signed confessions and made statements admitting to the plot against Bush and to having ties to an al Qaeda cell.

But when the case came to court, Abu Ali pleaded not guilty to the charges, saying he made up the confessions after being tortured by Saudi police.

"He was tortured and that is the only reason he made those statements," defense attorney Khurrum Wahid told reporters after Wednesday's sentencing. "We hope to be victorious on appeal."

Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty called the sentence "strong punishment for the defendant's egregious crimes. It is important that Abu Ali remain behind bars until he is no longer a threat to the American people."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060329/us_nm/security_abuali_dc

I think he's innocent.

[2pac Shakur]

At the hearing on the bail motion, an FBI agent testified that Abu Ali had confessed to Saudi officials that he associated with persons involved with al-Qaeda, received things of value from them, and talked with one or more of them about how to assassinate President Bush, whether by car bomb or shooting. (These persons are named in the indictment as unindicted co-conspirators.) The government also claims to have a videotape of this confession.

Abu Ali's attorneys argued that if Abu Ali indeed confessed, he did so under extreme conditions of confinement - conditions that included torture. Confessions under such circumstances are not only deeply inhumane; they are also notoriously unreliable.

They also pointed out that Abu Ali had repeatedly been denied the right to an attorney. Abu Ali's parents had asked the U.S. consulate in Saudi Arabia -- who had infrequently sent an employee to visit Abu Ali in prison -- to provide their son with an attorney. They were told the Saudis would not allow it. Accordingly, no attorney ever met with Abu Ali while he was incarcerated and doubtless tortured in Saudi Arabia.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20050307.html

Booga.

[Emily]

I never believe confessions, with or without torture.

[2pac Shakur]

When the indictment was made available to the public, it raised an even larger question about the entire prosecution. Nowhere in the indictment is Abu Ali tied to any terrorist event or action. So what is his crime?

Plainly, there was not enough support for a charge of conspiracy to assassinate President Bush. Conspiracy requires an agreement, and an overt act in furtherance of the agreement. Nothing in the indictment suggests that Abu Ali either agreed to attempt to assassinate Bush, or took any action as a step to doing so.

So, instead, the indictment simply charges Ali with having "associated" with alleged terrorists. Specifically, it claims that he talked about wanting to kill Bush with these persons, and that he received money from one or more of them - for what purpose, it is unclear.

:tup:

[Foamy]

Did we really need another I :ht: terrorists thread from 2pac?

[Y2Mozz]

Yes. Yes we did.

[2pac Shakur]

Did we really need another I :ht: terrorists thread from 2pac?

Just keep waving your flag.

[Foamy]

Just keep waving your flag.
Don't set off that IED strapped to your chest just yet, we'll miss you.

[Mayor McCheese]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060329/us_nm/security_abuali_dc

I think he's innocent.
You also wish he had succeeded.

[Mayor McCheese]

Just keep waving your flag.
Translated as: I don't have anything intelligent to say, so I'll throw out a mindless post. Just like every other one of my posts.

[2pac Shakur]

I don't have anything intelligent to say, so I'll throw out a mindless post. Just like every other one of my posts.

IFYQ

[whisper]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060329/us_nm/security_abuali_dc

I think he's innocent.

:yawn:
So what? A jury didn't.

[SirVLCIV]

A 'jury of his peers', no doubt.

I hope I'm never charged with a false crime. I have absolutely no faith in the justice system.

[2pac Shakur]

:yawn:
So what? A jury didn't.

:yawn:
Same with OJ.

[Foamy]

:yawn:
Same with OJ.You think OJ is innocent too? :tfh:

[2pac Shakur]

You think OJ is innocent too? :tfh:

He was found innocent by his peers, so he must be. Right?

[Foamy]

He was found innocent by his peers, so he must be. Right?
You said "same" which means you think he's innocent even though his peers think he's guilty.

Look up "same" in a thesaurus.

[2pac Shakur]

You said "same" which means you think he's innocent even though his peers think he's guilty.

Look up "same" in a thesaurus.

Sorry, I forgot this:

:2pac:

[whisper]

He was found innocent by his peers, so he must be. Right?

No, he wasn't found innocent.
He was found not guilty. The government failed to produce convincing case for the jury to convict.

[Harry]

No, he wasn't found innocent.
He was found not guilty. The government failed to produce convincing case for the jury to convict.

Isn't it just as possible that this guy's defense failed to produce a convincing case of his non-guilt?

[whisper]

Isn't it just as possible that this guy's defense failed to produce a convincing case of his non-guilt?

Yes, it is possible. The process isn't perfect. Nonetheless, it is the process, and a lot better than many others in use.

Furthermore, I'll trust the opinion of a jury who has seen all the evidence for conviction and against conviction than some cracker with limited information opinion.

[Harry]

Yes, it is possible. The process isn't perfect. Nonetheless, it is the process, and a lot better than many others in use.

Furthermore, I'll trust the opinion of a jury who has seen all the evidence for conviction and against conviction than some cracker with limited information opinion.

Sure, but there is just as much reason to question the validity of a confession obtained from a torture chamber in a Middle Eastern prison.

[whisper]

Sure, but there is just as much reason to question the validity of a confession obtained from a torture chamber in a Middle Eastern prison.

:aypi:

Or are you assuming that this is the only information the jury considered?

[Harry]

:aypi:

Or are you assuming that this is the only information the jury considered?

The article mentioned no other evidence, yet you are convinced of his guilt because a jury said so? But you even admit the system isn't perfect. The flaws in this case are apparent. If there is other evidence, I'm sure we'll hear about it...

[Foamy]

Sorry, I forgot this:


Same: see thesaurus

[whisper]

The article mentioned no other evidence, yet you are convinced of his guilt because a jury said so? But you even admit the system isn't perfect. The flaws in this case are apparent. If there is other evidence, I'm sure we'll hear about it...

:roll:
If the flaws are so apparent, how reasonable is your assumption that the defense counsel was that incompetant they couldn't convince a jury that there was a reasonable doubt?

[Harry]

:roll:
If the flaws are so apparent, how reasonable is your assumption that the defense counsel was that incompetant they couldn't convince a jury that there was a reasonable doubt?

A good prosecutor could convince a jury of anything. Especially with a confession (regardless of how it was obtained) and images of 9/11.

[whisper]

A good prosecutor could convince a jury of anything. Especially with a confession (regardless of how it was obtained) and images of 9/11.

I see. In other words, the flaws are so self-evident except when in a court room. :roll:

[Harry]

I see. In other words, the flaws are so self-evident except when in a court room. :roll:

Um no, the flaws are evident in that they started with an accusation of him being al qaeda and trying to kill the president. They sent him to Saudi Arabia to be tortured and the best they can come up with is "associating" with al qaeda? And the only evidence we've heard is the confession based on his torture? I wouldn't think that would be enough to convict someone in this country, so please find the actual evidence and show it to me before I lose all faith in the greatness of America. Right now, you're basing your faith in this conviction on the fact that a jury convicted him. Kind of circular, no?