C4 PASS MARK

[Higher Authority]

27 correct (pass) any lower?

[Flying Squirrel]

22 (Fail) :swear:

[Silly Putty]

Failed with 23 - WHY THE HELL DID THEY RAISE THE TYPICAL PASS SCORE BY AT LEAST 2 QUESTIONS?

SCREW THE SOA!

[Mavs]

Passing with 26 correct

[Taps]

I passed with 25 questions correct. On to Course 6, and I still say screw the SOA.

[IOWA ACTUARY]

I "remembered" from two different sources. Both matched. I got 25 on the SOA released key.

I failed. I don't think I can do this anymore.

[4sigma]

A friend here at my company passed with a raw score of 24. Since 23 failed, it appears that 24 was the pass mark.

[IOWA ACTUARY]

I am extremely confident with my 25. I failed. What gives?

[FIOB]

We'll never know.

[FIOB]

Well, that is one theory. There are only a few possibilities. There could have been a couple of questions that had two correct answers. The people who thought they passed with 24 correct may have had 26. However, the SOA has already posted solutions, and they didn't indicate that they threw any questions out, or that there were any with multiple accepted answers.

Either these test takers made a mistake 'remembering' their answers, or the grader (mechanical or human) made a mistake grading them. These seem like more plausible explanations then the SOA threw out a question as defective, but then released a correct solution to it.

It would be interesting if IOWA ACTUARY were to ask for a regrade, and even indicate which problems he thinks he got correct. What could they say? You didn't get those correct or you did get those correct, but still failed.

[Course 5 Zoombie]

i do not know whether i had copied wrongly my candidate number back home or not because i didn't bring my exam slip with me.

2603 or 2613.....

guess, i failed with 24Qs correct :viola: :cry: :cry: :cry: :swear: :shake:

[Course 5 Zoombie]

Well, that is one theory. There are only a few possibilities. There could have been a couple of questions that had two correct answers. The people who thought they passed with 24 correct may have had 26. However, the SOA has already posted solutions, and they didn't indicate that they threw any questions out, or that there were any with multiple accepted answers.

Either these test takers made a mistake 'remembering' their answers, or the grader (mechanical or human) made a mistake grading them. These seem like more plausible explanations then the SOA threw out a question as defective, but then released a correct solution to it.

It would be interesting if IOWA ACTUARY were to ask for a regrade, and even indicate which problems he thinks he got correct. What could they say? You didn't get those correct or you did get those correct, but still failed.

may i know what is the procedure asking SoA to regrade?

[Summer]

maybe some of your circles weren't filled in properly and were marked wrong? what other explanations are there?

[casquetboy]

I failed with 24 - what the heck is up with this?????

[VernSchil]

Is it possible that they weight questions differently? In that case a 24 with all the "heavy" questions correct might pass but a 25 with few "heavy" questions correct might fail.

[4sigma]

I checked with my friend who got 24. She did not actually take her answers out of the exam room, but remembered her answers later when looking over the exam when the SOA released it.

She says she is sure she got 24 right and 11 wrong, and there were 5 more that she didn't solve but she doesn't remember what she answered. So it is possible that she got 25 (or 26 or ...) correct answers.

[Course 5 Zoombie]

is that means 24 correct failed and 25 correct passed?

what the hack for this so high level of passing rate!


hope so high and now dissapoitment also high! :evil:

[FIOB]

may i know what is the procedure asking SoA to regrade?

It probably says on the website somewhere, but it's probably as simple as e-mailing the ombudsman and asking for a regrade.

[Stranded in IA]

I (IA Actuary) do intend to pursue the regrade.

I thought I carefully checked for missed questions, double fills, that the answer in the book was the same as the sheet, and all that, since I had plenty of time.

I was so confident, I immediately started #6, and had almost finished the readings.

[FIOB]

It sounds like 26 was the pass mark. Someone who is sure of a 25 failed, and someone who is sure of a 26 passed, and no one who is sure of all their answers has disputed.

[FIOB]

I checked with my friend who got 24. She did not actually take her answers out of the exam room, but remembered her answers later when looking over the exam when the SOA released it.

She says she is sure she got 24 right and 11 wrong, and there were 5 more that she didn't solve but she doesn't remember what she answered. So it is possible that she got 25 (or 26 or ...) correct answers.

It sounds like that person is quite lucky. She got two out of five wild guesses right, and if she had only gotten one she would have failed.

[4sigma]

Not clear. Taps, above, says he passed with a 25. Iowa Actuary says he didn't pass with a 25. Anyone else out there get 25 correct?

[the ladies man]

I am just at a complete loss on this one. I am so upset I just can't believe it. I was 95% sure that I had 26 questions right AND it was even possible based on a couple guesses that I would have 28 right....

Well low and behold my candidate # was not on the list. I made sure I ovaled everything correctly and double checked the answers.

I had the exams letters stored on my calculator.. once the exam was posted I went over the exam about 10 times. I remembered what I put on about 35 of the questions.. after going over the exam over and over I felt at least 95% sure that I had at least 26 correct.

I'm so frustrated. I want to know what the process is for a regrade. Has anyone ever asked and have it come back as a pass???

Help me please.

[Course 5 Zoombie]

do we need to pay fees for regrade?

i am so down and sad. felt like giving up..............

[Stranded in IA]

More than likely it was 26. Makes the two very easy ones I booted all the more frustrating. I'm still gonna ask for a regrade, got nothin' to lose.
-4th time wasn't a charm. Hope 5th is. :horse:

[Sleepy Head]

I suggest that you e-mail the ombudsperson immediately for a regrade. If you don't hear anything from them within 4 weeks, keep sending follow-up messages until they respond.

(They still haven't let me know the result of my regrade. I requested it since July of 2002.)

[waterpri]

either 24 or 25 right for me. Failed.....I cant believe they made the pass mark so high....I wonder what % passed..

[Caramel]

I am just at a complete loss on this one. I am so upset I just can't believe it. I was 95% sure that I had 26 questions right AND it was even possible based on a couple guesses that I would have 28 right....

I had the exams letters stored on my calculator.. once the exam was posted I went over the exam about 10 times. I remembered what I put on about 35 of the questions.. after going over the exam over and over I felt at least 95% sure that I had at least 26 correct.

I'm so frustrated. I want to know what the process is for a regrade. Has anyone ever asked and have it come back as a pass???

Help me please.

Hello The Ladies Man, I cannot believe what you wrote above, because we are in the same situation here!!

I am sure having 27 questions right and double checked with the answer keys once they are out and I was very frustrated to not see my candidate number on the list.

I am calling SOA for a regrade/remark, I need an explaination and a very good one from them.

[Taps]

I wanted to give an update. I earlier said I passed with a 25, when it is possible that I received 26. I had one question that I was 50/50 on. I guess it is possible that I answered that question correctly as well.

[IOWA ACTUARY]

O.K, 26 it is. I don't think it really matters how difficult or easy the test is.

Try it again, this time with feeeeling!

[aces219]

I was correct way back in November. I got 32 right and predicted an 8, and that's what I got. That's consistent with 26 being the pass mark.

[J.T.]

I got 28 questions right and received a 6. I don't know if that is consistent with 26 being the pass mark, but what do I know?

[Caramel]

I got 28 questions right and received a 6. I don't know if that is consistent with 26 being the pass mark, but what do I know?

Well, I got 27 right and still failed.
What does this mean than?

Another four month of self-confidence struggling and studying for me... :cry:

[the ladies man]

So you guys are telling me that the pass mark on this exam went from averaging 22-23 to 28?????


Well that's just great soa!!! Keep up the good work. Next May I'll just assume it will take 30 questions.

[aces219]

I don't think this test was that much easier than those in the past, I just think a lot of candidates sat for it for the nth time and were finally well-prepared.

[MathGuy]

I got 28 questions right and received a 6. I don't know if that is consistent with 26 being the pass mark, but what do I know?
If 26 is the pass mark, (given that 10% of 26 is 2.6), then:

[0, 13) is a 0
[13, 15.6) is a 1
[15.6, 18.2) is a 2
[18.2, 20.8) is a 3
[20.8, 23.4) is a 4
[23.4, 26) is a 5
[26, 28.6) is a 6
[28.6, 31.2) is a 7
[31.2, 33.8) is an 8
[33.8, 36.4) is a 9
[36.4, 40] is a 10

Note that the width of each interval is 2.6, and that there is no rounding. So, to get a 7, you need at least 29. Also note that a score of 0 ("ineffective"), means you scored less than half the passing mark (that is, less than 13).

[Caramel]

Thanks for your analysis on the passing mark, Mathguy.

I guess we have to aim for 26+ of right questions for the May 2003 course 4 exam.

[Toonces]

I got 34 correct for a 9, so that is consistent with a pass mark of 26, but not any higher.

And, for what it's worth, 34 is significantly higher than what I was doing on sample exams, so I am not surprised that the pass mark went up.

[WacKtuary]

I had 36 answers right and got a 9. Since 36.4 is 140% of 26, 26, or maybe higher, was req'd to pass.

[FIOB]

Well, I got 27 right and still failed.
What does this mean than?

It means you counted wrong.

[Pi Man]

i think many that claim they got "26" right are fudging it... if you 'guessed' on ANY of them, did you remember 100% of your guesses? ("i guessed A for #18...") i don't think you got as many right as you THINK you did.

oh, and for what it's worth, the SOA also passes certain people based on their last name and the color shoes they wore on the day of the exam....

take your knocks and get your butts back to studying.....




freakin' whiners.... :shake:

[Rainbow Brite]

i think many that claim they got "26" right are fudging it... if you 'guessed' on ANY of them, did you remember 100% of your guesses? ("i guessed A for #18...") i don't think you got as many right as you THINK you did.

oh, and for what it's worth, the SOA also passes certain people based on their last name and the color shoes they wore on the day of the exam....

take your knocks and get your butts back to studying.....




freakin' whiners.... :shake:

pi- where's the love man? :-?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Pi Man would say: "Life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you something."

[Pi Man]

nahhh.. that's loner and prak-baby :D

i'm usually a happy dude, but this "i got a 25, i got a 26, i should have passed, i deserve better, i'm better than you" crap just goes through me.

check the ticket man... if the dotmatrix cranked out a number in {6,7,8,9,10} then you freakin PASSED... if you see a number in {0,1,2,3,4,5} then you freakin DINT!!!!

some folks just don't GET it, man.... :shake:

Hi Rainbow!! :wave:

another thread gone to flirt

[CAPTAIN_MORGAN]

BUMP! I GET THE FEELING IT'S VERY LIKELY 27 MAY HAVE BEEN THE PASS MARK IN NOVEMBER '02. BAMA GAMBLER GOT 25 DEFINITELY RIGHT, AND 2 MORE POSSIBLES - AND PASSED. THE LADIES MAN AND CARAMEL GOT 27 RIGHT AND FAILED. MAV GOT EXACTLY 26 AND PASSED. NOT A WHOLE LOT OF CREDIBLE DATA HERE, BUT IT CERTAINLY SEEMS IF SOMEONE WHO WAS SURE OF 27 FAILED, THEY WOULDN'T BE OFF BY MORE THAN 1. THERE'S NOONE I SEE THAT SOUNDED DEFINITE ON PASSING WITH A 26 (IE - MAV NEVER FOLLOWED UP HIS INITIAL POST WITH "I'M 100% SURE MY RESULTS WERE ACCURATE"). I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS FOREVER, THOUGH. IF I FAIL, I'LL JUST CONSIDER IT TO BE PRIDE FORKING WITH ME

[That Goblin]

They must not have had the calculator technology back then that they have now.

[nj]

Hate to say this, but TI-30X II has been allowed before Nov 2002!

Can only hope for the best NOT to get a 5!!
:viola:

[VernSchil]

I know two coworkers (both very competent, reliable sources) that took their answers out. One matched 26 and passed, the other matched 25 and failed. I definitely trust these people and would be willing to bet a lot that the pass mark was 26 and no higher.

[Soccerboy]

So Vern,

Do you think this exam will have a pass mark of 26, since this s not as easy as the Nov 02 exam, I think a lot of people are confident about this exam, I see another effective passing of over 50%

Anyway, I will stop, there some folks who are not confident, i better not dash anyone's hopes, we can all speculate and only SOA will decide on what they are going to do, so lets wait..or better yet, lets enjoy the holidays

[VernSchil]

It's hard to say. My opinion comparing how difficult this exam was for me compared to previous exams and taking it their assumed pass marks is that the Nov 03 pass mark will either be 24, 25, or 26 with P(25) > P(26) > P(24). Of course, seeing how well everyone else performed has me scared and thinking the pass mark could possibly reach 27. It all depends on how many the SOA wants to pass. Hopefully, they put a ceiling on the pass mark like they did for Nov 02.

[CaptainDingo]

c

[CaptainDingo]

I had the exams letters stored on my calculator..
Help me please.

Well, there you have it. If you hadn't CHEATED you might have passed. Next...

Sincerely,
OmBudsPerson

[Flying Squirrel]

Look at the bottom half of your exam ticket, under the refunds section. It says you can get a refund as long as your request reaches Schaumburg by Dec 31. If only we could accurately predict the pass mark anyone below should get $300 back (since the SOA gets to keep $50 in "administrative costs"). If you are positive you failed, give it a shot.

[tommie frazier]

sqirrel,

that is genius!

the, to preserve passing ratios of, say, 40%, the pass mark would be skewed higher, to maybe 34.

One reason not to do this, though, is that your company may require that you show them the result in order to get the reimbursement for seminar, books, and the fee (now only $50).

that would be an interesting development if, en masse, people did this.

[bluedemon74]

Look at the bottom half of your exam ticket, under the refunds section. It says you can get a refund as long as your request reaches Schaumburg by Dec 31. If only we could accurately predict the pass mark anyone below should get $300 back (since the SOA gets to keep $50 in "administrative costs"). If you are positive you failed, give it a shot.

If you're serious, you're a wacko! They're only going to give you a refund if you didn't take the exam goofball.

[examtaker3]

they'll give you a refund, they just won't give you a score. It is a risk-- there is always a chance you might have passed.

[new2for]

Vern, I agree with your analysis, but I think most would agree that this one was not as easy as Nov 02, so I the pass mark should be no higher than 26, right?

[CAPTAIN_MORGAN]

HOW ABOUT YOU STEP OUT OF YOUR X-Y MOBILE AND TAKE A LOOK AT THINGS FROM THE 3RD OR PERHAPS 4TH DIMENSION? FIRST, PUT YOUR FEET IN THE SHOES OF SOMEONE TAKING THE EXAM WAY BACK IN NOVEMBER 2002. HOW MANY PRACTICE EXAMS WERE THERE? HOW MANY STUDY PROGRAMS/ MANUALS WERE AVAILABLE? HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE TAKING IT THEN FOR THE FIRST TIME, VERSUS ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD FAILED THE PREVIOUS HARDER SITTINGS?

NOW LOOK AT THE PEOPLE OF FALL 2003. THEY HAD NOVEMBER 2002 TO STUDY FROM, PLUS A FEW MORE EXPERIENCES AND STUDY MANUALS.

MY GUESS IS 27 IS STILL IN THE RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES - ESPECIALLY WHEN I COMPARE POSTED SCORES NOW TO POSTED SCORES BACK IN LAST NOVEMBER - LAST NOVEMBER PEOPLE WHO SCORED 24 OR 25 THOUGHT THEY WOULD PRETTY MUCH PASS, BECAUSE THE PASS MARK WAS NEVER ABOVE THAT IN THE PAST, AND FEW PEOPLE POSTED HIGHER GRADES. NOW WE HAVE A SIMILAR SITUATION - ONLY EVEN MORE PEOPLE ARE POSTING HIGHER GRADES. MAYBE BECAUSE THIS WEB-SITE IS MORE POPULAR NOW THAN IT WAS THEN AND PEOPLE ARE MORE ACTIVE IN RECORDING ANSWERS. MAYBE ALSO BECAUSE THIS CROP OF EXAM-TAKERS WERE MORE PREPARED.

REGARDLESS, WE'LL ONLY KNOW IN JANUARY. UNTIL THEN, I SAY DROP IT AND DON'T HAVE ANY FALSE HOPES.

[VernSchil]

Vern, I agree with your analysis, but I think most would agree that this one was not as easy as Nov 02, so I the pass mark should be no higher than 26, right?

Assuming the SOA still puts ceilings on pass marks, then I see no way the mark could be higher than 26. However, there is no rule that says the SOA must follow what they've done in the past. Taking this into account, no one can be certain what the pass mark will be. If they want to pass <40% it could very well be 27. If they follow their past few trends of >50%, then the pass mark will probably be 26 or under. I still think 25 is the MLE.

[VernSchil]

Well, I think it's obvious what happened in Nov 02. The SOA analyzed the exam and came to the conclusion that regardless of the extremely high average score, there must be a cut off point in which an exam taker has demonstrated adequate mastery of the material to earn a passing grade. In whatever analysis they used, the conclusion was this cut off point was 26. In doing this, 60% of the population passed, something I'm sure the SOA did not want or was not happy about, which could be why they made May 03 so hard. I've compared Nov 02 and Nov 03 side by side and I'd think that the majority would conclude Nov 02 was easier, with a smaller proportion saying they're of equal difficulty, and an even smaller number saying Nov 03 is easier. All of this reasoning strongly tells me the pass mark will not be over 26 and should be 25. As I just said though, we cannot be 100% safe in the assumption that the SOA will act as they have in the past.

[That Goblin]

God Help Me, but I agree with CM.

[new2for]

I think I should be fine either way, but just for the sake of those in the low to mid 20's, I would say that I don't think the posters here are necessarily a representative sample. Of the 6 or so people in my test center, everybody else but me thought the exam was not easy at all, harder than Nov 02, and they didn't feel very good about it - Low to mid 20's or Lower. Subsequent people I have spoken to have felt the same way or even worse. In fact I haven't met one person who feels good about it. I also have a hunch that the population is not as strong as May's so..... I wouldn't be surprised with 23 - 25 as the number needed to pass.

[CAPTAIN_MORGAN]

I KNOW SOMEONE WHO SCORED 35 OUT OF 40. I'M FREAKIN' OUT HERE, MAN.

[new2for]

Hopefully, they are just outliers? I doubt they will make the number needed to pass higher than Nov 02.

[Silly Putty]

The thing I'd be concerned about is that while Nov. 2002 had a pass mark of 26, 60% passed at that number. I think there is certainly a chance the pass score could once again be 26, only this time with perhaps 45% passing (a percentage passing figure the SOA may be comfortable with).

As someone with friends sitting in the low-mid 20s, I really hope the "typical" pass score of 23-24 is in the cards this time, but I must admit to losing hope based on the comments here.

[Cynic]

CM, Goblin, do you guys want to bet? How about if you pass in January, you each give me $100 (yeah, with your big bonus, what's the big deal?). If you fail, well...I'll stop posting and free you guys from the annoyance. Deal?

Seriously, I know how you guys feel. You can't be sure until you hold the grade slip in your hand. Don't waste your time speculating. You should start studying for Course 6. You don't want to fail that one, do you?

[That Goblin]

No, I don't want to bet. I already have my C6 books. I might have pulled something carrying them all the way from the actuarial library to my car. What a stack!

[jk]

Well, at least when we figure out the pass mark we'll know whether the people who brag about their scores here are a representative sample.

I got 23 x 36 on Nov 2002, as practice (four questions not on syllabus), and 24 x 40 on Nov 2003. This is consistent with my gut feeling that Nov 2003 was about two questions more difficult.

Unfortunately, as a previous poster pointed out, it will take one question's worth of difficulty to lower the Nov 2002 pass percentage to an acceptable level, and one more to lower the pass mark from 26 to 25. I will be thrilled to have received the highest possible failing grade.

[cubedbee]

I justed talked to the SOA about this. The pass mark is definitely 25. Congrats to those who passed. Good luck next time for those who didn't.

[Avi]

I justed talked to the SOA about this. The pass mark is definitely 25. Congrats to those who passed. Good luck next time for those who didn't.

Howdja manage that?

[dumber]

I justed talked to the SOA about this. The pass mark is definitely 25. Congrats to those who passed. Good luck next time for those who didn't.

Whatever... :roll: :roll: :roll:

[VernSchil]

I justed talked to the SOA about this. The pass mark is definitely 25. Congrats to those who passed. Good luck next time for those who didn't.

Whatever... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I thought you had 25, Dumber.

[Wigmeister General]

26.5 = pass mark.

[dumber]

26.5 = pass mark.

So how exactly do you get a 1/2 point?? That is almost as dumb as me.

[cubedbee]

I justed talked to the SOA about this. The pass mark is definitely 25. Congrats to those who passed. Good luck next time for those who didn't.

Howdja manage that?

You don't want to know. Let's just say I feel very dirty right now.

[Avi]

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:nP3Mao9w_o0C:www.sandycline.com/sculpture/archived/ivory.jpg

[Course 4 Escapee]

:rofl: