PD

[annabel lee]

is there a way to find out what PD topics are covered in the sessions of a given seminar before you sign up for the seminar? I'm trying to figure out what seminar to go to, I only about 8-10 credits but I need to be sure there will be Investment/Finance stuff. Thanks guys! (Can I tell you how happy I am to be thinking about PD?!)

[chica]

Sorry Annabel Lee, I don't know an answer. I do have another question, though - how long does it take for the initial plan to get approved? Does it even need approval anymore? I can't remember. Thanks in advance!

[actuari]

SOA says
- up to 4 weeks for a response to PD plan submitted
- up to ?? for the completion report
but I don't have any experience with that.

How much in advance do we need to be done with PD to sign up for FAC?

[urysohn]

To annabel -- I'm not sure I understand. The seminar (or session) description should tell you what is going to be covered. If you are looking at one of the Annual / Spring meetings (assuming you're looking at the right Spring meeting) there will be appropriate sessions. If you're looking at a different seminar, there should be a good-enough write up available (people need to know what their money's going toward).

An important point to remember - you can take PD credit for a seminar/session even if it is not directly relevant, as long as you thought, in good faith, that it would be relevant beforehand. I think half my PD plan write-up consisted of "I thought this would be a really good session, but it wasn't. Here's what it was about. Here's why I didn't like it" (the "why it wasn't a relevant session" took the place of the "how did it help me" part of the write up).

[no]

An important point to remember - you can take PD credit for a seminar/session even if it is not directly relevant, as long as you thought, in good faith, that it would be relevant beforehand. I think half my PD plan write-up consisted of "I thought this would be a really good session, but it wasn't. Here's what it was about. Here's why I didn't like it" (the "why it wasn't a relevant session" took the place of the "how did it help me" part of the write up).

May I jump in ?

I wonder whether I could do this for audio tapes as well? Also in your write up approximately how many words (chars) did you use per PD credit or per session?

Thank you in advance!

[annabel lee]

urysohn, the seminar descriptions usually just mention the overall theme of the meeting if there is one -- are you talking about the mass-mailed glossy brochures, or do you get more detailed information about each individual presentation before you actually register for the meeting?

[mayreeh]

The initial plan is almost automatically approved. You can send it electronic at the same time you drop it in the mail and get your approval a couple of days earlier.

The 3-4 weeks is for the executed plan approval. That depends on them not having a problem with it though. A friend last year got hers sent back with instructions to rewrite and make it more personal. (She had written summaries rather than "what this means to me".)

**Anyone out there tried the non-SOA approved approach? There is a limit of 15 credits.

Basically, you can get 3 credits for teaching a one hour seminar, as long as your advisor approves.

So -- why wait for a seminar in May? Teach your own series today.

It is definitely legal -- I just don't know if anyone has gotten away with it. I'm planning to find out though. With this and the product development CD ROM, I'll be done with PD in 3 weeks or so. Hopefully fast enough to answer any complaints about my approach and still make the deadline for May FAC.

[MarkT]

Maybe a good example of what annabel lee is talking about is the SOA/LIMRA/LOMA "Life Conference" on March 12-14. Seems like this would be a good event for PD credit, but there's nothing in the brochure nor is the event shown on the 2003 Approved list. Maybe there's too much marketing fluff.

[Minerva]

Maybe a good example of what annabel lee is talking about is the SOA/LIMRA/LOMA "Life Conference" on March 12-14. Seems like this would be a good event for PD credit, but there's nothing in the brochure nor is the event shown on the 2003 Approved list. Maybe there's too much marketing fluff.

http://www.loma.org/lifeconference.htm#The%20program

Link to program outline of this conference. Depending on your plan, IMO this could conceivably work for some credits, although maybe not every session. (This cogent analysis is based on attendance at several LIMRA conferences and a thorough 2-minute scan of the program. :P )

[urysohn]

The Life Conference link is a good example of what I've seen for every seminar I've gone to - general overview plus a decent review of every session that will be there. It should be at least good enough to tell you whether there will be any finance-related stuff there.

I wrote about 5-6 lines for each one-hour session. I also did a 9-credit non-approved seminar and included extra writeup (plus the session materials) for that one - it was approved with no problems.

[milly]

I have a question regarding the non-SOA approved seminars, for example the life conference. For these type of seminars, how do you know how much PD credit each session is worth? All the SOA approved conferences show how much PD credit you will be able to earn. Is this something that I would have to call the SOA to find out? Thanks!

[Blessed]

Is anyone know whether SoA allows someone to register for the FAC without attending the APC? :-?

[Minerva]

I have a question regarding the non-SOA approved seminars, for example the life conference. For these type of seminars, how do you know how much PD credit each session is worth? All the SOA approved conferences show how much PD credit you will be able to earn. Is this something that I would have to call the SOA to find out? Thanks!

For the most part, 1 hour of seminar = 1 PD credit. (I think this is in the morass of PD material - you might want to verify.) But, they are sticky about certain types of "loose" sessions, like an open forum or discussion group. Also, for SOA sessions the keynote address may not get PD credit, so be aware of that principle.

From the SOA web-page http://www.soa.org/eande/update.html :

Non-approved Programs = 15 Units maximum
The non-approved category includes educational programs that the candidate and advisor believe are consistent with the educational objectives of the candidate's plan. Nonactuarial seminars, professional meetings and graduate level courses are among the programs suitable for inclusion. Non-approved programs are valued at a maximum of 5 units per full day program and 10 units maximum for any one program, regardless of length.

Program presenters may be awarded credit at a rate of 3 units for 1 hour of presentation. If the program is classified as SOA-approved, the presenter will receive SOA-approved units. If the program is not SOA-approved the presenter will receive non-approved units for appropriate programs.

Candidates are permitted to make use of professionally audiotaped, videotaped, and/or Internet programs up to a maximum of 15 units per plan (either SOA-approved or non-approved). However, these programs are limited to those sponsored by the SOA or other recognized actuarial organizations (e.g. CAS, CIA, CCA, ASPA, AAA,). In the case of audio or videotaped programs, the date of the actual program will serve as the eligibility date for a candidate's PD plan time frame.

All programs, regardless of approval status, must be consistent with the educational objectives of the candidate's PD plan for credit to be received.

end of paste

Is anyone know whether SoA allows someone to register for the FAC without attending the APC? :-?

According to the Fall 2002 Course catalog, only Associates may be admitted to fellowship, and you may only register for the FAC after completing ALL other requirements for fellowship. Since the APC is required for associateship, I'd interpret that as a big "no". But, you could always call and ask.

[chica]

I think the only exception to the APC question is if you were an ASA before the 2000 transition. Is there a reason you haven't attended the APC?

[Blessed]

I'm residing in Asia and the APC was held 1-2 times in Asia site last year. Further, I was busy preparing for my course7 and course8. In retrospect, year 2002 was a very busy year for me.

[mayreeh]

Has anyone turned in their initial PD plan electronically in the last week? Have you gotten a response?

I was told by a guy who sent his in last year that he got electronic confirmation almost immediately. I was expecting the same.

It has been almost 24 hours and I haven't gotten any response.

May seem like I'm in a hurry, but I have non-SOA approved seminars scheduled for next week and I was hoping to wrap up the PD CD ROM this week. Trying to get done and over with ASAP. Delayed acceptance of my initial plan wasn't in the plan.

[Axsuetarian]

Has anyone petitioned to the society to file a PD plan and begin obtaining the PD (other than the 15 "free PD") BEFORE completion of exams 1-8?

It seems kind of odd that one can pass the exams in almost any order (i.e. pass 8 before 2), but can't do the PD before ALL of 1-8 are done.

I suspect that some of you fall into this situation (have 1-7 but not 8 and want to get most of my PD out of the way before beginning prep for 8, but am limited to 15 credits per the SoA)

HELP!!!!

[hermione g]

what do they want to see in the initial plan? if you're in say the asset management track, should your initial plan say 'i'm going to get 10 credits on regulation, 10 credits on assets, and 10 credits on portfolio management to satisfy the 30 credits i need to supplement my 20 credits from transition' or do i have to say 'i intend to go to this meeting where i hope they'll talk about regulation' or what exactly? i'm so lost and the website doesn't help much

[In England]

Seminars can be taken up to 25 months before the PD plan is accepted by the advisor. Your advisor can't accept your PD plan until courses 1-8 are completed.

[Axsuetarian]

In England,

Does that mean that I can do all my PD before submitting my plan? You say seminars, but what about tapes? the Project?

Thanks,

[In England]

By seminars I meant non-approved credits, which include tapes.

I don't know about approved credits or the project because I only need 15 credits. I had 35 credits converted from pre-2000 exams.

But it looks like the same applies to all 50 credits: here are some quotes from the PD page:

"The candidate must obtain a minimum of 50 units of eligible education within a 25-month period. "

"A candidate's 25-month effective period for PD will begin with the earlier of the following dates:
The date of the earliest program included in the PD plan
The date of advisor sign-off on the PD project"

"2. If I take 15 units before submitting my plan, are they at risk if my plan is disapproved?
Candidates may want to discuss their approach to PD, including the educational objectives they wish to fulfil, with their advisors before starting to attend formal programs for PD credit. There is a time limit on such programs, in that a program is valid for a period of 25 months and could expire before the plan is completed if there is a delay in obtaining approval.
The credits taken must relate directly to the candidate’s legitimate educational objectives for the plan. If the program(s) used provides concrete support to the plan, there should be little risk of credits not being accepted."

[Grits N Gravy]

By seminars I meant non-approved credits, which include tapes.



Taped sessions do not necessarily fall into the non-approved category. If the session is an approved session, it is still approved when you use the taped version.

From Spring 2003 catalog "Candidates are permitted to make use of professionally audiotaped, videotaped, and/or Internet programs up to a maximum of 15 units per plan (either SOA-approved or non-approved)."

[mayreeh]

The project can be associated with work done prior to submission of the initial plan - as long as it isn't officially signed off on until after the initial plan submission.

So... my project was done last year - just not written up yet.

[Eddie Mac]

Mayreeh, regarding your January 15 post above, did you get a response from the SOA to your initial PD plan filed via e-mail?

[Minerva]

Seminars can be taken up to 25 months before the PD plan is accepted by the advisor. Your advisor can't accept your PD plan until courses 1-8 are completed.

I asked the SOA to clarify the 25-month rule. The start date is the earlier or the earliest session and your initial plan. The end-date is the date your advisor accepts your executed plan/writeup.

You can complete no more than 15 credits before your initial plan is approved. For this item, transitional credits are not included in the 15 credit max. Also for this item, tapes and stuff are included as of the date of the session, not the date you review them. The CD-Rom is included as of the date you complete it, same with virtual campus.

Just to keep it interesting, there are a number of possibly overlapping subsets of the 50 credits:

Approved + non-approved = 50; non-approved <= 15
Pre-initial plan + post-initial plan + transition =50; pre-initial <=15
Electronic + non-electronic = 50; electronic <=15

Hope this helps. Good luck! :)

[Axsuetarian]

But can you submit your initial PD plan before having passed 1-8? If not, has anyone petitioned the SoA about changing this rule?

[mayreeh]

You cannot submit your PD plan until after you receive your passing score for 1-8.

They want the material on PD to build on the material from course 8. I would think that if you have course 8 and are only missing course 7, you might have some grounds for petition - but I still doubt that they would approve it.

[Axsuetarian]

If the SoA is so interested in making people finish part 8 before they do their PD, then how come people can "trade back" course 7 for full PD completion (if they passed course 7 pre-conversion in 2000)

WHY, O WHY do they do this?

[Minerva]

If the SoA is so interested in making people finish part 8 before they do their PD, then how come people can "trade back" course 7 for full PD completion (if they passed course 7 pre-conversion in 2000)

WHY, O WHY do they do this?

Not that it makes complete sense, but they don't require that you have Course 7 to take Course 8. And, since they applied pre-2000 credits to PD, regardless of what they were, that part makes sense, in a warped sort of way.

(Is it a bad sign that I can make sense of the SOA? :spnner: )

I didn't know you COULD "trade back". Has anyone really done it, or is it an urban legend. And WHY would you trade going to some meetings and stuff to TAKE ANOTHER EXAM?????!!!!!!! :-?

[Axsuetarian]

I know a person who is doing it.

The main 2 reasons for doing it (for someone that had < 15 credits) would be

1) avoid the project piece of PD (and trade for one which only takes 4 days, i.e., C7(

2)*Literally get your FSA 6-8 months earlier (do C7 during the spring, study C8 for the fall --> DONE)

*More important for someone who is just trying to get their FSA and move on with life

[julieml]

I wish I had known about that option. Before the transition, I intentionally sat for only enough credits to get MOST of my PD, but not all 50. If I got 50, it would have applied to Course 7 instead. After transition I was left with only needing 10 PD credits and Course 7 & 8. I think that was a faster and less painful road than Course 8 + 50 PD credits including the project. If I had known they would give that option, I could have gotten all 50 credits out of the way before transition. Not Fair! :viola:

[chica]

Has anyone ever gotten a email response from the PD person? I emailed a while ago and haven't heard anything back. How rude! Any other suggestions?

[chica]

I just got my response! One interesting comment was that the Product Development CD is for 12 points total. You can't use it for less (ie view half of it for just 6 points). Maybe that will make more sense to me once I get the CD. My concern was that I wouldn't get the full credit if some of it is too basic, but I guess that doesn't matter.

[bri1600bv]

What are you supposed to do with this PD CD? Just view it and write some "book report" type of summary on it? I'm a little confused. Are there exercises or something?

I deliberately didn't take tests for the last sitting before the conversion because I figured 7 + 8 + 5PD would be easier to get than 8 + 40 or even 30 PD. Wish I knew!

Anyway, I need 5 more.

[Minerva]

I just got my response! One interesting comment was that the Product Development CD is for 12 points total. You can't use it for less (ie view half of it for just 6 points).

Interesting, 'cause I DID use it for less. [Commented that becasue of the overlap with C8 & pre-transition credits, I was counting it for X credits] 'Course, even with partial credits, it put me over the 50, so maybe they didn't really care. Anyway, they approved it.

However, GOOD NEWS chica, because it's a piece of cake!

What are you supposed to do with this PD CD? Just view it and write some "book report" type of summary on it? I'm a little confused. Are there exercises or something?

I reviewed it and wrote about a page and a half, including how I would apply what I'd learned in my present and future roles.

[Eddie Mac]

Chica,
How many days from e-mailing your initial PD plan to the SOA until acceptance? I've a seminar coming up, & I'd like to take it for credit . . .

[chica]

I think the point about not using it for less than 12 credits, was basically that you can't just listen to 1/2 of it and ask for 6 credits. You have to use the whole thing. If you only need 5 credits and you get 12, that's not a problem. I don't think they care if you go over (but my company does since they're paying for it!).

Eddie Mac - don't know about initial plan acceptance since I can't file until my course 7 results (and I pass). I've heard if you do it via email you'll get a response within a few days. Otherwise, I think they say a week or two. Someone else should be able to answer this better, though!

[annabel lee]

e-mailed initial plan today, hopefully will report back here next week that it's been approved. chica, your company won't pay for more PD credits than you need? despite the fact that buying the cd-rom would save them flying you somewhere, putting you in a hotel, paying for the meeting/seminar, paying for meals, etc.? brilliant.

[no]

CD-ROM

I reviewed it and wrote about a page and a half, including how I would apply what I'd learned in my present and future roles.
You mean, your report based on CD-Rom is 1.5pages? That sounds good,
If I am shooting for 12PDs on CD-Rom, I will have to write close to 5 pages?

Thanks Minerva, and thank you for the message, I don't know how to reply to messages.

I still have not received a reply from pdcomments@soa.org.

[Particle Man]

no: I just received a response today to a question I asked on the 14th about filing the initial plan and executed plan together. So it seems like responses can take quite some time.

I have 45 PD credits from transition and I'm planning to use 6 credits from the 2002 spring meeting to complete the PD requirement. I was informed that it is OK to submit them together.

[chica]

Annabel Lee - Congrats on filing! Good luck!

It's not that they wouldn't pay, it's just if I'm over by a lot of credits I think they'll wonder why they sent me to some meetings. For instance, if I went to a meeting for 9 credits and only needed 12 total so I used the CD for 3 more, they may wonder why I didn't use the CD in the first place. I don't think they'll have a problem with my plan. That SOA has made it too easy for companys to not send us to meetings! Oh well, the CD allows me to finish quicker, so it is fine with me!

[mayreeh]

I got a call from the SOA last week. They got behind on processing PD plans because of the FAC applications.

They said that even if I hadn't heard from them, the initial date of acceptance on my initial plan would be the date that it was received.

[JO]

I know it has been discussed before but I didn't get the answer I was looking for. Will The Life Insurance Conference in Orlando, March 12-14 qualify for SOA-approved credits? Or do I need to ask them myself.. It's not on the approved list for 2003 but it sounds like something I could use for my PD plan. Also, how many credits do you think I could claim out of that?? Thanks.

[Me]

Also, how many credits do you think I could claim out of that??

1 PD unit for every hour you're sitting there listening to relevant material. (I'm guessing it would all be relevant).

I think you'll have to ask them yourselves if it will count or not.

[Minerva]

If it's not on the approved list, it's not approved. But, it could count toward your 15 allowable non-approved credits.

No more than 5 per day, 10 for the entire conference, essentially 1 hour of meetings = 1 credit.

[JO]

Crap, they have like 5.5 hours the first day of worthwhile stuff (too bad they have concurrent sessions) and only about 2 the next day (there's 1.5 hour on how Disney is great, hmm, that will help me become a better actuary :roll:).

I want to go though, it's freezing in the NorthEast! :swear: :D

[milly]

Actually, I spoke with someone at the SOA about the Life Conference (Mar 12-14) yesterday. They said that they are currently reviewing it to see if it will be approved for SOA credit. They told me to check the website on Friday, and hopefully by then the information would be available. However, I am planning to use this seminar even if it is not SOA approved. From the way I see it, I can get 6.25 PD credits there....rule is 1 hour = 1 PD credit

[uncle]

If I am under valuation concentration in my initial plan, can I use product dvelopment CD-Rom to fullfil 12 pd credits ?

[Almost done]

For those of you who have done the CD-Rom, how long does it take to get through everything? I'm thinking of using it for only 3 credits so I can finish up before the Spring meeting, but if it takes alot of time then I'll try to think of something else. THANKS.

Oh, and it this an accurate summary of what dates distance learning items are included in your PD plan:

tapes - as of the date of the original Society meeting
Product Development CD-Rom - as of the date you complete the CD-Rom
Virtual Campus classes - as of the date you complete the class

[chica]

The SOA told me that you cannot use the Product development CD-ROM for less than 12 credits. You must watch the entire CD (ie can't watch half and just ask for 6). I have heard that it doesn't take close 12 hours, though.

[JO]

Well, it looks like the Life Insurance Conference is now good for 7.75 SOA-approved credits. That's great but I had planned on using the life/annuity product development CD Rom since it's in my area of practice...for a total of....19.75 SOA-approved credits! I'm going to call them on Monday in order to ask them what I'm supposed to do in order to file 0.25 SOA-approved credit. Anyway my boss' reaction was kind of funny when she learned about it. http://forums.clubsi.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Minerva]

For those of you who have done the CD-Rom, how long does it take to get through everything? I'm thinking of using it for only 3 credits so I can finish up before the Spring meeting, but if it takes alot of time then I'll try to think of something else. THANKS.



It probably only took a few hours to go through it, but I ended up going through it 3 or 4 times to finish the writeup. So, maybe 8 hours? (I'ts beenn awhile, and I did it in pieces.)

[chica]

JO - You could use the SOA's virtual campus for a couple credits. I think i saw a few interesting courses for 1.5 credits each. Plus, since you use the CD for 12, another 1.5 won't bring you above the 15 credit limit for recorded sessions. Just one of those and you're done!

[Minerva]

As chica said, there's at least one FREE virtual campus course - on Bancassurance, I think it's one credit. That should put you over!

[annabel lee]

for anyone who's keeping track - I e-mailed my initial plan on 24 Jan (and mailed the signed paper copy the same day). Today I got confirmation of acceptance. 6 business days, not too bad given the post-exam-results rush.

[no]

for anyone who's keeping track - I e-mailed my initial plan on 24 Jan (and mailed the signed paper copy the same day). Today I got confirmation of acceptance. 6 business days, not too bad given the post-exam-results rush.

Thats good news annabel lee! Shooting for May Fac?


Did you (or others) use the passive voice as in model plans or active voice in initial plan? Thanks.

[annabel lee]

Thats good news annabel lee! Shooting for May Fac?

That's the goal, yep. I used first-person, active voice.

[JO]

Hey thanks, I'll do this then! http://forums.clubrsx.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[julieml]

Has anybody received approval for their executed plan lately? I submitted mine on Jan 20th for 10 credits. Just wondering if anybody experienced a quick turnaround on that piece lately.

[C5Funus]

Has anybody received approval for their executed plan lately? I submitted mine on Jan 20th for 10 credits. Just wondering if anybody experienced a quick turnaround on that piece lately.

I'm sure they're swamped with PD submissions.

For what it's worth, earlier that week I called Schaumburg to gauge the likelihood of attending the Atlanta FAC.

The woman with whom I spoke (Colleen?) said that my plan probably wouldn't be reviewed by a committee member in time for Atlanta, but she thought that a 10-credit PD plan would have no problem being reviewed in time for Montreal.

[julieml]

C5Funus, That's great news. I'm shooting for Montreal.

[no]

How long did your advisor take to read your executed plan?
If I ask (beg) him to read it within a week would that be unreasonable?

I need 20PDs, I have not submit the initial plan. I am going to finish writing the executed plan a few days after I submit initial plan.

Thanks,

PS: I am also shooting for May Fac.

[C5Funus]

How long did your advisor take to read your executed plan?
If I ask (beg) him to read it within a week would that be unreasonable?

I need 20PDs, I have not submit the initial plan. I am going to finish writing the executed plan a few days after I submit initial plan.

Thanks,

PS: I am also shooting for May Fac.

It took me a couple of days (off and on) to write up my executed plan.

I gave my advisor (to whom I directly report) the weekend to review it and make comments. We then met for about an hour to talk about what I had written, and for my advisor to ask questions. The seminar and sessions I chose for PD directly relate to the work I'm presently doing, so much of what I wrote was simply documenting how I had observed similar situations within our organization, and identified potential product development opportunities.

For a 10-credit plan, I wrote a page about the "educational benefits obtained", and 8 pages on the program summaries. I followed the format of the sample on the SOA website.

Since I'm the first one at my company to have do PD, neither I nor my advisor were familiar with the process.

Frankly, all the paperwork that is required (commitment letter, statement of completion, written program summaries) seems like overkill, but I since it's the next-to-last hoop through which I've been asked to jump, I guess it's just a matter of "shutting up and doing it."

[Grits N Gravy]

Has anybody received approval for their executed plan lately? I submitted mine on Jan 20th for 10 credits. Just wondering if anybody experienced a quick turnaround on that piece lately.

I sent my 5 credit executed plan in on Jan 16th and was notified by phone that it was approved on Jan 28. They faxed over the FAC registration form, which I filled out and faxed back right away. I received the confirmation and bill by mail yesterday. Good luck.

[mayreeh]

Permit me to whine.....

I've spent two days writing up my executed plan. This is worse than studying for exams - except that it is over a lot faster. Eeeesh.

What is more, I realized that I really needed to modify my initial plan. (My advisor won't mind, but I am wondering what the SOA will say.) I'm no longer on model plan, but I suppose that if I were better at BS I could be.

I'm just afraid that with a modified plan, no model plan, non-SOA approved credits, and a project that I'm guaranteed that someone will go over it with a fine toothed comb and find a way to keep me from the May FAC.

But even so, if all goes well, by Tuesday afternoon, it will be on the way up north and out of my hands for at least a couple of weeks. That alone will make me sleep better.

[julieml]

Four weeks and counting. I'm only going for 10 PD credits, and the SOA has had my executed plan for 4 weeks and a day now. Has anybody received approval recently?

[Wyo]

Four weeks and counting. I'm only going for 10 PD credits, and the SOA has had my executed plan for 4 weeks and a day now. Has anybody received approval recently?

I submitted my 10-credit plan on January 23. It was approved on February 7, and I was told I could still go to Atlanta. I faxed back my registration that day, and received confirmation on February 11.

You might want to follow-up with Colleen at the SOA office (847-706-3547).

[paranoid]

Does anybody know if they have started accepting plans from people that do not have Courses 1-8? My guess would be not yet, but I'm paranoid that it will take longer to review them once that happens. My advisor is reviewing my 10 credit executed plan and I'm hoping to get it up there before they open up the field, as I'm trying to make the May FAC.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Axsuetarian]

Does anyone know if the SoA is even going to allow people to submit before having 1-8? I've asked this a couple times, and noone has answered yet. :(

[annabel lee]

probably because the SOA doesn't know yet.

[no]

Finally, my initial plan is at the courier pick-up desk. They will get it tomorrow. I am asking for a formal review. I may not be able to make May FAC.

I got a few audio-tapes and the CD-ROM.

Do others find the PD to be a frustrating exercise?

[chica]

I'm frustrated with PD because I think I understand what the SOA was going for when they designed it, but now that I'm trying to do it it's not working out that way. Instead of making my objectives to fit me and then finding seminars to fit those objectives, I have just made my objectives fit the upcoming seminars. That means the entire PD process is just one more hoop I have to jump through. Oh well. I've come this far and have to say that the frustration I feel doing PD is hardly a fraction of the frustration when studying for an exam.

[Me]

I despised writing up my PD. I was in self imposed purgatory for a couple of months because I wouldn't let myself do anything fun when I should be working on my PD. But I just dreaded actually working on it. I have 35 credits from the conversion so I didn't even have that much today.

I think two things made me really hate doing it: 1) the lack of a hard deadline (I should get this done by the time course 8 results come out. Well, it will be fine if I get it sent off by the end of January. Then again, counting backwards from the FAC deadline, I guess I don't really have to send anything until mid Feb. And it's a small plan...) 2) The completely fuzzy nature of what it is I was supposed to do. How detailed was I supposed to get? How long were the write-ups supposed to be? I kept erring on the side of too much and it just made me more and more miserable.

I am so completely overjoyed that I know they got my plan and I just have to wait now.

[paranoid]

My executed plan is being sent to the SOA via overnight mail tonight!!! So, hopefully, it'll be off to Montreal in May.

[GadgetGeek]

Before I ask the SOA, thought I would ask here first.
Does anyone know if any PD is available for articles published in Section Newsletters? Not project credit, just some PD credits.

[Papa]

no-

If I read far enough back, you are an 8V taker using the CD-Rom? I am in the same boat (need 20 credits, Investments) and would love to try the CD-Rom, but I didn't get it because I thought it wouldn't relate.

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Papa

[no]

Papa: I am using a custom plan. In the initial plan I indicated reading that CD-ROM would be very valuable. My advisor believes me, but we have asked for a formal review of the initial plan. If they approve, I can use it, if not I will have to find something else. As soon I hear from them I'll let you know.

[Papa]

Thanks

[mayreeh]

Question: for those who have heard back on their plans -- how did you hear? Snail mail? Email? Phone?

Anxiously waiting some response.....

[MOSurf]

My first response from the SOA was via email and I was asked to make some changes to my plan. They wanted more personal observations in my session summaries. I thought it was totally bogus when you look at the summaries from the sample approved Life plan.

Anyway, when it was finally approved, I got a letter in the mail. Good luck!

[annabel lee]

Well, it looks like the Life Insurance Conference is now good for 7.75 SOA-approved credits. That's great but I had planned on using the life/annuity product development CD Rom since it's in my area of practice...for a total of....19.75 SOA-approved credits! I'm going to call them on Monday in order to ask them what I'm supposed to do in order to file 0.25 SOA-approved credit. Anyway my boss' reaction was kind of funny when she learned about it.

hey JO -- whatever happened with this? Just curious...

[almostdone]

Has anybody received approval for their executed plan lately? I submitted mine on Feb 27th for 15 credits. I am hoping to apply for May FAC.

[paranoid]

Has anybody received approval for their executed plan lately? I submitted mine on Feb 27th for 15 credits. I am hoping to apply for May FAC.

I submitted mine Feb 26th for 10 credits. When I submitted my initial plan Feb 12th, I asked if the May FAC seemed like a reasonable goal. They thought I would be okay, as long as my plan was approved on the first go through.

[mayreeh]

I submitted mine for 50 credits on Feb 11 and haven't heard a word yet. I was hoping for May FAC, but I'm starting to lose hope. If they take another week with it and then ask for changes, I'll have to turn the changes around overnight to have any chance at May.

I've been told, though, that if they do get back to you with stuff they want you to change, that it doesn't generally take 3-4 weeks for them to get back to you a second time - especially for small numbers of credits.

[no]

I submitted mine for 50 credits on Feb 11 and haven't heard a word yet.

Just for my own curiosity, you managed to accumulate 35 PD credits
in 1 month, considering that you are allowed only 15 PDs prior to
passing exams? You did not have any pre 2000 exam credits?

[mayreeh]

What can I say, I worked really really hard.

I counted the PD CD ROM for 5. I did 5 non-SOA approved presentations for 3 credits per.

My project was pretty much done except for the write up.

All very much technically legal - but pushing the limits. It took a ton of work to do it all. Going to seminars would have been easier, but I'm tired of being an ASA and I wanted to get done.

[no]

Thanks mayreeh, that is pushing the limit. Lots of work.

[mayreeh]

Won't do me any good if they don't respond to me fast enough to settle any differences by the end of the month.

[JO]

Hey does anyone of you who has done the PD CD-rom know the approximate breakdown by topics? I'm doing the US Product Development Model Plan and would like to figure out approximately how many credits out of the 12 are in Product Design and Pricing, Regulation, Taxation etc. etc. Thank you.

[chica]

JO - There is no breakdown. You do the whole thing for 12 credits. That's it. You can't break it into pieces.

I can tell you, though, that there is nothing on regulation or taxation, really. It's more of a holistic approach to product development - eg, looking at competitiveness, deciding if you should proceed with a product, monitoring products, etc. It should make more sense once you see the CD. I was surprised at how different it was from my expectations. I did enjoy it, though, and it didn't take me nearly 12 hours to complete.

[Just Answer My Questions]

Who thinks the SOA are going to change the rules in regards to being allowed to do PD initial plan prior to completing alll 8 exams before the end of this month?

[JO]

JO - There is no breakdown. You do the whole thing for 12 credits. That's it. You can't break it into pieces.

I can tell you, though, that there is nothing on regulation or taxation, really. It's more of a holistic approach to product development - eg, looking at competitiveness, deciding if you should proceed with a product, monitoring products, etc. It should make more sense once you see the CD. I was surprised at how different it was from my expectations. I did enjoy it, though, and it didn't take me nearly 12 hours to complete.

Thanks, so basically you're saying that it's more or less 12 credits in product design/pricing right? Because I need to choose which sessions I'm going to attend to make sure I cover every topics in more or less than the same proportions.

[chica]

Hi Jo - Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. It is a very overall view of product development and only spends a little time on technical details. It's more touchy-feely business/management stuff, but I did find it somewhat interesting.

[annabel lee]

Who thinks the SOA are going to change the rules in regards to being allowed to do PD initial plan prior to completing alll 8 exams before the end of this month?

Not I. First they'll have to finalize their decision, and find some way to write the new rules more clearly for those intending to use PD to get their ASA. Then they'll re-draft the PD filing rules so that you can file your initial plan at any time after passing 1-4 (note, that's just my guess!) and they'll have to decide if the 24-month time frame still applies. Then they'll have to set a date as of which the new policy takes effect.

All of which will take until the beginning of May, so the new rules will be in effect probably just before or just after exams.

YMMV, of course.

[almostdone]

Finally, my PD plan was approved today. That means I am in for Montreal May FAC. I will see you guys there.

[no]

For 15 credits it took 4 weeks.

I am submitting my executed plan with 5PDs tomorrow. I really hope they will approve it soon and hope there will be some space left for Montreal
FAC after April 3. I know I am being overly optimistic.