non-student actuary

[EnoughAlready]

I would like to hear personal stories from those who have been working in a non-student actuarial position, but being pursuing the exams. I imagine some of you have been taking the exams and many haven't, but I would particularly like to hear some possible benefits from being in a non-student position (an obvious one-less stress from study pressure), as well as downsides also (such as lack of given study time, paid study assistance, pay raises, etc). What types of difficulties would you experience as you attempt the exams being in a non-student position? If you do that, would your career advancement be more limited than working as a student actuary? Has anybody done this or do you know anybody who's been doing this?

I would very much appreciate any insight.

[Ducklin]

Hmmm.... I am doing it and I have to say it is pretty stressful to be in such a position. No study leave to prepare for exams is a disadvantage for me compared with other students who take the same exam. No mentor or anyone else who I could ask if i have a general question on some definitions.

Regarding exam pressure, i would say there would be less of this factor because i would have the freedom to choose how many exams I take and if I fail it I would not feel it in my job. Thus when I go into the exam room I haven't got a lot of stress, I will just do my best. All I could do has been done, if I fail then that is very likely due to time constraint and not my ability. Though I wish I would pass it and not have to resit the exams. Completing the profession in this way would be longer as well!

Not sure if career advancement would benefit being in such a position. Haven't seen any of these yet because I just passed one exam till now.

[J.T.]

I am currently in one of those jobs, sort of. I don't get study time or raises, but they want me to be an actuary someday. It is definitely not as stressful for me, but that is mainly because I was in consulting and was working more hours (even without studying) than I am now. Cost issue is big, along with not having anyone to ask problems. I tend to do that here, and since there are so many great people on this board :wink: it hasn't been that big of a downside. I think that your career development will be slower (mainly because you don't have the experience when you move to an actuarial job). However, if you are just planning to get less than 4 exams in the non-actuarial job, you probably wouldn't be hurt too bad. I don't think that it is a good idea to be an ASA or ACAS without any experience.

[glenn]

I started in a non-actuarial position, wrote my first two exams that way. I'm back to doing it on my own.

Benefits:
-Freedom to study & take exams when I want

Drawbacks:
- Cost
- difficult to stay on track without dedicated study time

If you're working at someplace 'actuarial', I'd speak to my manager. Maybe swing a deal where if you pass one they reimburse you for the exam costs and then put you on the study program. It should be clear that if they don't they risk losing you as soon as you have 1 or 2 exams.

I wouldn't recommend pursueing the exams longterm without getting into some sort of study program.

[mayreeh]

I suppose that it depends on the person. I got about half way through the exams and quit. No progress.

Eventually, I started again on my own. One exam a year. Study all year for it. Weekends. Nights. Vacation days. Knowing that if I failed, it was my money down the tubes. If I passed, I'd get reimbursed for expenses - and get a raise, just like the guys in the student program.

100% pass rate when I started up again. Nothing but PD left.

1. You want to be reimbursed for expenses. It is a costly trip to take if you won't be.
2. You want to make sure you won't be asked to work overtime the month before the exam - and in fact, can take some vacation days to study.
3. You want to be paid fairly for your exam level. (See the DW Simpson salary survey to see what you could earn elsewhere.)

It can be worth it - but it takes discipline. For me, not being in the program made it easier for me to discipline myself. For most, the study program helps.

But as far as career opportunities - the piece of paper matters for most actuarial employers. If you don't do the study program and get your FSA ASAP, you'll find that while you get more interesting work assignments - you won't get the most pay and certainly not the most respect.

[Alice_Kramden]

Are you considering a place that doesn't have a student programm or a place that has one and also has non-students/actuarial analysts/technicians? If it's the later, beware: you'll be treated as a second class citizen and your opportunities for advancement will be very limited. A non-student spot often means "we want someone a step above clerical support, but not too bright".

[another]

Alice,
I have to disagree. The bright techs are the best. The work is definitely quite a bit above clerical level.

[IOlIlOlIlOlOI]

I am currently in a non-actuarial position in actuarial services for a large firm, and I am trying to pass an exam so I will be admitted into the Actuarial program. The lack of financial support is not ideal, like paying a penalty to try to better my career. The lack of study time is brutal, especially since I have traveled more than 60% of each of the past two exam periods. Needless to say, I have not passed in either sitting, getting two 4's for my efforts. It would not be a wise career move to pass up on these engagements, but it also seems to be hindering my passage of exams. I am in a very difficult position.

In my opinion, no one with experience should be denied entry into an Actuarial Student program. They have taken the time to hire you, train you on their methods and philosophies, and give you experience. If you have been denied entry, it makes sense to consider leaving your current position and enter the market looking for a company that will support you.

I am giving my present situation one more sitting. Pass or not, I am going to negotiate study time and financial support, or I will leave. I will only add insult to injury for so long.

[glenn]

In my opinion, no one with experience should be denied entry into an Actuarial Student program. They have taken the time to hire you, train you on their methods and philosophies, and give you experience. If you have been denied entry, it makes sense to consider leaving your current position and enter the market looking for a company that will support you.

I was hired with no exams and no intention of taking exams into a position that they were seeking an ASA for. Couple of years later when I decided exams might be a good thing, I still got no exam support. Pointing out that they had advertised for an ASA got me nowhere. :swear: :swear:
Unfortunately, I think you're stuck passing the first exam on your own before you are likely to get support.

[Agtuary]

In my opinion, no one with experience should be denied entry into an Actuarial Student program...

I am giving my present situation one more sitting. Pass or not, I am going to negotiate study time and financial support, or I will leave. I will only add insult to injury for so long.

At both consulting firms I have worked for the "experience" required for entry into the Actuarial Student program was passage of at least one test. You are also required to pass an exam within x sittings or you are removed from the Program. No employer is going to reward you with free time and $ (i.e. study time and materials) if you cannot produce the required results.

I have traveled more than 60% of each of the past two exam periods...It would not be a wise career move to pass up on these engagements

It seems to me if your career goal is to become an Actuary, it would be a smarter decision to decline some of these engagements (if given the opportunity) so you can study and pass that first exam.