View Full Version : RF Keeper Rules Discussion
Not Mike
10-03-2006, 08:31 AM
As the season starts to wear on, before we get to a point in season where it's too late to bring up these issues, I'd like to throw out a couple of things, maybe we can vote on them:
o Roster Expansion for next year - Would like to go to at least 18... it's just way too difficult to manage around byes with 10 starters every week and only 6 bench guys. 16 or 17 is probably Ok for leagues where you only start 8 guys, but with 10 starters, I think we have to expand rosters.
o Keeper Values for next year - I think we still have an open issue on this one for dropped/added guys. We talked about it, maybe we can put it to a vote. I'd say Base Value = MAX(1/2 * auction value, free agent pickup price). So that means to keep Dom Davis next year, he's going to be at least 14 (+5), even if you add him for $2 down the line.
o And here's my biggest concern.... I don't really have a solution, but I'd like to discuss it before it gets ugly. Let's say Lipman is out of the race in week 13 and he doesn't think he'll keep Alexander at 80 or Tiki at 61 next year. Maybe he'd rather add (for argument's sake) Jay Fiedler and Damon Huard for $1 in free agency because he thinks they'll be great value at $6 next year. I don't think anyone could argue that he's just trying to improve his team for the long haul; the issue is that now Alex and Tiki are out there on waivers and a playoff team could add them both and really make a strong run at the title. I don't think anyone wants that to happen, but if I'm in Lipman's position, I don't really care, I just want to make my team better next year. OR, he even drops Alexander at 80, then picks him back up for less money. Bottom line, a lot of bad things can happen.
The only way I can think around this is that maybe we make the trade deadline and "keeper deadline" the same week. I mean that after week 10 or whatever, no one picked up on waivers is eligible to be a keeper. It's a thought, maybe a bad one, but I'd hate to see us run into issues down the line.
Happy Skunk
10-03-2006, 08:47 AM
As the season starts to wear on, before we get to a point in season where it's too late to bring up these issues, I'd like to throw out a couple of things, maybe we can vote on them:
OK
o Roster Expansion for next year - Would like to go to at least 18... it's just way too difficult to manage around byes with 10 starters every week and only 6 bench guys. 16 or 17 is probably Ok for leagues where you only start 8 guys, but with 10 starters, I think we have to expand rosters.
Agreed
o Keeper Values for next year - I think we still have an open issue on this one for dropped/added guys. We talked about it, maybe we can put it to a vote. I'd say Base Value = MAX(1/2 * auction value, free agent pickup price). So that means to keep Dom Davis next year, he's going to be at least 14 (+5), even if you add him for $2 down the line.
I think we can fix this whole issue. The way it should work is that if a player is dropped, his salary is reset and the player who drops him can't resign him for a week. If a player is kept, his salary goes up by inflation or a minimum amount. More issues below.
o And here's my biggest concern.... I don't really have a solution, but I'd like to discuss it before it gets ugly. Let's say Lipman is out of the race in week 13 and he doesn't think he'll keep Alexander at 80 or Tiki at 61 next year. Maybe he'd rather add (for argument's sake) Jay Fiedler and Damon Huard for $1 in free agency because he thinks they'll be great value at $6 next year. I don't think anyone could argue that he's just trying to improve his team for the long haul; the issue is that now Alex and Tiki are out there on waivers and a playoff team could add them both and really make a strong run at the title. I don't think anyone wants that to happen, but if I'm in Lipman's position, I don't really care, I just want to make my team better next year. OR, he even drops Alexander at 80, then picks him back up for less money. Bottom line, a lot of bad things can happen.
As noted above, there should defininitly be a waiting time on drop and re-add of a player. As for the other issue, If Tiki and Alexander are available to the other 9 guys, the bid price should take care of any other issues.
The main issue in our league is that we only have $100 of free agency. The way it should work is that we operate under a set salary cap for the year of $x00 - probably $400 would work best. This fixes a couple of things. At the least, it keeps salaries in line for the keeper aspect. So if Alexander comes up and people want him, they need to drop poeple or have enough $$ in reserve. His price will be in line with the market.
It also means the commissioner doesn't have to keep track of any calculations whatsoever.
This is the way it works in other leagues I am in and it is cool.
The only way I can think around this is that maybe we make the trade deadline and "keeper deadline" the same week. I mean that after week 10 or whatever, no one picked up on waivers is eligible to be a keeper. It's a thought, maybe a bad one, but I'd hate to see us run into issues down the line.
The simplest option is usually the best!
JMO :judge:
lipman
10-03-2006, 10:48 AM
As the season starts to wear on, before we get to a point in season where it's too late to bring up these issues, I'd like to throw out a couple of things, maybe we can vote on them:
o Roster Expansion for next year - Would like to go to at least 18... it's just way too difficult to manage around byes with 10 starters every week and only 6 bench guys. 16 or 17 is probably Ok for leagues where you only start 8 guys, but with 10 starters, I think we have to expand rosters.
o Keeper Values for next year - I think we still have an open issue on this one for dropped/added guys. We talked about it, maybe we can put it to a vote. I'd say Base Value = MAX(1/2 * auction value, free agent pickup price). So that means to keep Dom Davis next year, he's going to be at least 14 (+5), even if you add him for $2 down the line.
o And here's my biggest concern.... I don't really have a solution, but I'd like to discuss it before it gets ugly. Let's say Lipman is out of the race in week 13 and he doesn't think he'll keep Alexander at 80 or Tiki at 61 next year. Maybe he'd rather add (for argument's sake) Jay Fiedler and Damon Huard for $1 in free agency because he thinks they'll be great value at $6 next year. I don't think anyone could argue that he's just trying to improve his team for the long haul; the issue is that now Alex and Tiki are out there on waivers and a playoff team could add them both and really make a strong run at the title. I don't think anyone wants that to happen, but if I'm in Lipman's position, I don't really care, I just want to make my team better next year. OR, he even drops Alexander at 80, then picks him back up for less money. Bottom line, a lot of bad things can happen.
The only way I can think around this is that maybe we make the trade deadline and "keeper deadline" the same week. I mean that after week 10 or whatever, no one picked up on waivers is eligible to be a keeper. It's a thought, maybe a bad one, but I'd hate to see us run into issues down the line.
Just because I am 0-4 doesn't mean I am outta it! :swear:
I like the 18 man roster.
I like the keeper value rule. Max(half Auction salary, FA bid)
I don't really understand the last one, but I will go with whatever the consesus is.
Not Mike
10-03-2006, 11:27 AM
Just because I am 0-4 doesn't mean I am outta it! :swear:
I like the 18 man roster.
I like the keeper value rule. Max(half Auction salary, FA bid)
I don't really understand the last one, but I will go with whatever the consesus is.
I didn't mean to pick on you! Let me say it another way....
Let's say I lose the next 11 games, I'm 3-12 and my team sucks. Let's say I decided I'm not going to keep LJ on my team next year for $92. And, since my team sucks so bad, having LJ on my roster for the rest of this year isn't going to help me win. So, I'm going to drop him outright and pickup another guy with potential keeper value, say Bruce Gradkowski for $1. The move is completely legit on my part, since I'm just trying to improve my team. But I may have just made a BIg impact on who wins the $400 because someone can pick up LJ (and can maybe keep him next year for a cheaper price).
lipman
10-03-2006, 11:47 AM
I didn't mean to pick on you! Let me say it another way....
Let's say I lose the next 11 games, I'm 3-12 and my team sucks. Let's say I decided I'm not going to keep LJ on my team next year for $92. And, since my team sucks so bad, having LJ on my roster for the rest of this year isn't going to help me win. So, I'm going to drop him outright and pickup another guy with potential keeper value, say Bruce Gradkowski for $1. The move is completely legit on my part, since I'm just trying to improve my team. But I may have just made a BIg impact on who wins the $400 because someone can pick up LJ (and can maybe keep him next year for a cheaper price).
Oh, I understand the problem, just not the solution. I should know long before the trade deadline that I am going to be out of it. So I would think that any move I make before then would be subject to the same problems (although I can see how it would be rampant in the last week or two).
I think you run a risk when releasing a player that you might lose him... I say leave it the way it is.
Implementing a 'value freeze' in say, week 11 may solve some issues (salary for next year is week 11 salary this year).
Another strategy would be to institute a roster expansion to, say, 20 guys in week 11.... no drops would be allowed after that point.
BTW, I already tried to dump a non-performing star and get him back for less (Moss). Failed miserably.
lipman
10-04-2006, 09:19 AM
Implementing a 'value freeze' in say, week 11 may solve some issues (salary for next year is week 11 salary this year).
Another strategy would be to institute a roster expansion to, say, 20 guys in week 11.... no drops would be allowed after that point.
BTW, I already tried to dump a non-performing star and get him back for less (Moss). Failed miserably.
The risk isn't that you drop a non-performing star, the risk is that I drop a performing star.
Say in week 12 I drop Shaun Alexander because I am 0-11 and want to pick up Aaron Rogers for $1.
This makes sense for me because I don't plan on keeping Alexander at $80 + $5 next year, but the starting QB for the packers might be worth $1 + $5.
Then Alexander is turned lose as a FA and people will only have 1 days notice. If somebody fails to pay attention (for whatever reason) during that 1 day after I drop Alexander, then they are out of the running for him.
Plus I don't think that the season should hinge on somebody picking up a top line player late in the year because of something like this.
On an unrelated note, I picked up Dom. Davis last night. I am now even more interested in how the keeper value works for him.
First off, when you drop a player, there is 2 days notice, as he can't be auctioned on the first day.
As for Davis's keeper value, as far as I know, you get him next year at the salary you just picked him up at +5
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