AL Cy Young Award

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Now that's a shame.
I've been kicked out of espn.com by the webminders here, but I got the news from somewhere else.
Just last night on SportsCenter, they were talking about Clemens' run support as the major difference in his W-L record. And it has been discussed since early September by people who know better (than crusty old sportswriters).
Then there was an online poll for Cy Young award. "Sorry, too busy watching TV, but if you insist, I'll go during the commercials. Tell all your sponsors about it." I wonder how that came out. If anyone feels slightly helpful, I'd be grateful for the info.

I can't wait to see if the writers will screw up the either of the MVP awards.

[Anonymous]

The baseball front page at espn.com says: Clemens Captures No. 6

Roger Clemens didn't lead the American League in wins. He didn't lead in ERA. He didn't lead in strikeouts or innings pitched. But he did go 20-3 (thanks, teammates) and won his sixth Cy Young Award on Thursday, easily outdistancing second-place finisher Mark Mulder. No other pitcher has won more than four.

Here are the vote totals (hope this formats legibly):
Complete AL Cy Young voting results, on a 5-3-1 basis:
Pitcher 1st 2nd 3rd Total
R. Clemens 21 5 2 122
M. Mulder 2 13 11 60
F. Garcia 4 8 11 55
J. Moyer 1 2 1 12
M. Mussina -- -- 2 2
T. Hudson -- -- 1 1


Maybe I'm just a "the glass is 7/28ths full" kind of guy, but I'm pleasantly surprised Clemens got "only" 21 first place votes.

ESPN also has a list of the highest-ever ERAs by a Cy Young winner. Clemens's 3.51 is second, behind only LaMarr Hoyt's 3.66 in 1983, and well ahead of third-place Jack McDowell's 3.37 in 1993. (I know we're in a high-offense era, but this still says something.)

Clemens had a good year, but other pitchers had better.

[Boink]

What, y'mean New York didn't "need" this win ? I think most people know why he won ... who outside of the people on the West Coast could be bothered to look up Mulder, Garcia or any of the more-deserving pitchers when it's so much easier to follow the herd ?

[Anonymous]

"Mr. James" mentioned that he thought Ichiro would win the MVP. That won't really happen, will it?

[Patience]

20-3 is such a phenominal number I doubt many would question how it was achieved, run support, short stints & strong bull pen.

Not at all surprised he won, actually surprised so many votes went elsewhere.

Anyone have easy access to stats for top contenders

[Dr T Non-Fan]

The sad fact is that knowing people predicted the win, based on the voters' tendencies.

Did he say that he thought Ichiro should win it and won't, or did he say he would win it and shouldn't?

According to cynical view of voters:
Points for Ichiro:
1. Highest league BA.
2. Name recognition.
3. No past reputation (unlike Boone).
4. Best RF in league -- great highlights.
5. Plays on best team in league (at time of voting). MVP must be on that team somewhere.

Points for Bret Boone:
1. Best RBI player on best team.
2. Name recognition (three generations' worth).
3. Plays usually weak offensive position.
4. Plays on best team in league (at time of voting). MVP must be on that team somewhere.

Points for Ca-Ching-Rod:
1. Plays usually weak offensive position.
2. HR high (highest?) for position.
-1. Last place team, so he must not be valuable. (sarcasm)

Points for Giambi:
1. OBP, Slugging (thus OPS) way above the league (like Bonds).
2. No need for any more, really. Voters can't find this in the weekly Sunday tally. "Leadership" can't be seen from 3000 miles away.

[Mr. Grim]

Why is A-Rod even considered? Was he the MVP for Seattle due to his leaving?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Pat-man, that's the problem with the voters: they didn't look any farther than the W-L. Even worse, they appeared to be deaf to the knowing ones. Kind of implies that they fdon't take the voting very seriously.

You can check espn.com for the stats. It also contains columns by knowing folk like Neyer (and unknowing folk like Stark and Campbell and half of Morgan's stuff -- beware).
His winning the Cy Young implies that voters believed that he knows how to win, so the rest of the stats are worthless. It's ppossible that his past record weighed in as well (name recognition).

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I believe he hit 50+ HRs. Most ever by a SS. Someone can check that for me.
That's about it, though. Maybe he's valuable because of the money he earns. If so, then there's no need to wait until the end of the season.
I included him, because he was being considered in September.

[Anonymous]

From the James chat:Joseph (Petaluma,CA): Bill, who do you think truevly deserves to be AL MVP?

Bill James: Jason Giambi, but Ichiro's going to win it, and he's legit, too. But I'd vote for Giambi.

Re: A-Rod

How long do we keep giving big extra credit for being a shortstop with offense? Put another way, how do we account for the fact that shortstops these days (outside of St. Rey) aren't good-glove-no-hit anymore?

(PS - I'm not saying A-Rod specifically isn't a candidate (probably 2nd behind Giambi), just asking the philosophical question.)

(PPS - A-Rod hit 52 HR, with an OPS of .399 + .622 = 1.021. Giambi's numbers were 38 and .477 + .660 = 1.137.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PseudolusCAS on 2001-11-15 16:12 ]</font>

[Patience]

A singles hitter, in front of a big RBI guy would need a huge number of runs for be to consider as MVP.

Either guy on Seattle can't even decide who was team MVP.

ARod, W-L does sometimes matter.

Giambi- without him Oakland would have fallen further than any other team without one player. Add to that the stats, discussion over

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I remember now. Thank you P-CAS.
That's a pretty cynical prediction. Unless he's done his own secret polling, I just don't see Ichiro getting the votes. Only one possible reason:
1. Arguably the best player on the best team.

This means that Boone (RBI) wouldn't get it. Nor Edgar (rep), Hard to explain all that, as writers might have to, if only to fill a column.
I'd like to have Ichiro at the top of my lineup. But we're talking THE MOST valuable player.

[Anonymous]

You're welcome, Dr T. My name is pronounced "Pseudolus". The "CAS" is silent.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Sorry I couldn't tell. It's capitalized, so I thought I should be YELLING it.

And, I'm not Dr T: Traci is. I'm her favorite Non-Fan. If she'd just make separate threads, I'd retire the name.

(DTNF is acceptable.)

[Patience]

On 2001-11-15 16:43, Dr T Non-Fan wrote:
(DTNF is acceptable.)


That is debatable

[Double High C]

Don't retire it.

I like the irony that the number 1 poster - and hence, fan - in (Glen and) Traci's forum (in a loose sense, anyway) is a self-proclaimed Doctor Traci Non Fan.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Battery Park City on 2001-11-15 17:03 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

It's a negotiating tool, but I think she enjoys it too much to let it sway her.

[Anonymous]

Gotcha - "DTNF". The "CAS" bit is only there because the unsuffixed version was already taken by a fan of mine and I wanted to be clear on who was and wasn't the guy from the CAS WC.

obBaseball Content:
One of Mr. J's better comments in the ESPN chat had to do with award selections. But to say that the player perceived by statistics as the best should always win an award would make it pretty pointless to give the awards, wouldn't it? All you would need is the numbers. I would take the opposite approach. It seems to me that award votes fill an important function to a serious analyst, which is that they create an objective record of subjective opinions.

That's a good point. All the pitching stats of 2001 will always be available for our great-great-grandoffspring to peruse. The Cy vote gives a snapshot of what a particular group of sportswriters thinks right now, which is also useful information.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Yes, we'll always have the record of how wrong they were.
Just as we have the record of how wrong they were when the Triple Crown winner was not the MVP.
Gives us something to talk about, I guess.
Perhaps there should be additional awards given by STATS or the Baseball Prospectus to remind people who was really the most valuable.

[Anonymous]

Let the jerk have the award. As much as I disagree with Roger as the choice, I would rather he have that than the Game 7 win.