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do most actuarial programs at insurance companies kick you out if you fail too many exams? how many is too many?
Dr T Non-Fan
11-16-2001, 12:24 PM
"Kick out" sounds a bit harsh. It would depend on the supervisor. It also depends on how well you do your work. (Are you too valuable to let go?)
I've seen a few people transfer to different areas and are still with the company after 10 years. I've seen people stop taking exams and stay in actuarial positions.
The current standard seems to be, "pass one exam every three consecutive sittings." Varies a lot, I suspect.
11-16-2001, 12:31 PM
Here you have to pass at least 1 exam every 3 sittings. After that you would most likely be asked to move to a technician position.
the one in three rule is what we have here, too. This sitting was even harder than usual because of september 11 (we're in new york city.) Are your companies going to make exceptions this time, because of everything that was going on?
11-16-2001, 05:02 PM
Insurance: Most companies will make you get a real job in the company if you agregiously fail out of the program. Most programs will give you several chances.
Consulting: You may have to pass an exam on your own without company support to get back into the program, but your job status won't change.
DISCLAIMER: these are generalizations. Don't read too much into it. I don't consider myself an expert, though I have worked for both insurance companies and consulting firms.
By the sounds of it, my company (insurance) is a little tougher than most. 450 hours in a time bank, and you can take up to 150 per sitting (up to you how much to take). Whenever you pass they credit 150 hours back. If your bank is empty - you're out!
11-19-2001, 02:59 PM
I've personally been under three student programs (in chronological order):
1 - Study time for up to 3 sittings of a given exam, then lost. No one ever "kicked out", but gently persuaded to move to another corporate position if many successive failures (and work is good).
2 - Study time bank, similar to Effa's. No one ever "kicked out".
3 - Study time for first two attempts of a given exam. No study time for third attempt. "Kicked out" after third failure of any exam. "Kicked out" could mean placement in another corporate area, if work is good.
In all 3 programs, the placement as an actuary applied only to pre-ASAs. Study time rules applied to ASAs going for fellowship, but no job actions for exam failure. (Just ineligibility for certain positions.)
Effa, your company's program does sound tough - assuming you take 110-150 hours per exam, they're allowing you just 3-4 fails for your entire career! Does everybody get the same 450 hours when they start with the company, regardless of how many exams they have? Did everybody get 450 hours at the beginning of the new exam structure in 2000? (It's not so bad if they gave you 450 hours when you only had 3 exams to go, which allows you 3 failures for 3 exams.)
My company had a similar "bank" plan, but when you passed, you got to add back 250 hours. So, if you took 125 hours each sitting and passed 50% of the time, you would still have your original hours left when you got your FSA. That meant you could fail 50% of the time plus about 3 extra times before being kicked out. Much more generous than Effa's company. (And yet everybody still b**ched about it all of the time.)
d*mned, I can't believe the autocensor caught "bitched".
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 42 on 2001-11-19 19:06 ]</font>
11-20-2001, 09:44 AM
I wouldn't mind having Effa's program. You get 18 days per sitting, even for the 1st few exams when most companies get only 12. If you use 12 days for the 1st 4 exams, and pass each on the first try, you end up of a surplus of 24 days for use for Course 5 and 6.
Even if you fail each exam once and use 6 days to study the 2nd time, you still break even.
Besides, by the time you have used up all of that time, you may be ready to move on to another company, anyway.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WWSituation on 2001-11-20 09:45 ]</font>
11-20-2001, 06:36 PM
What if you start there with 5 exams; do you still get 450 hours to complete FSA?
Sounds like an unfair advantage to job jumpers.
On 2001-11-20 09:44, WWSituation wrote: Besides, by the time you have used up all of that time, you may be ready to move on to another company, anyway. WWS, you may have hit the nail on the head. A program that is generous with the time allowed for an individual exam but stingy on total time may find students quickly using up their time and then moving on to the next company. Maybe programs should include some sort of financial reward to students who pass exams with less company time. When a student attains their FSA, do any companies using the bank method ever give the new FSA a bonus based on the amount of time left in their bank? Or charge a student who is leaving the company if their bank is below a certain level? Do any of the companies not using the "time bank" method ever pay a bonus to students for passing exams on the first attempt?
11-23-2001, 01:31 PM
We get an additional 10% raise for first time passing. There is no credit for unused study time.
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