Sorry for being an s_hole, but...

[RealSix]

Sorry for pissing on ya'lls corn flakes, but just in case nobody has clued you newbies to the exam system in:

Everybody always claims that they had it harder, but you guys really DO have it easier. Go back and take a look at the 2000 system exams, and realize that the ones that they didn't publish were much worse!

Just remember when you run across an actuary like Bama Gambler, who passed every time under the 2000 system, you better show some respect.

[hardlife]

even though the questions were harder, we have no idea how it is being graded. Therefore, we cannot say that an exam is harder just merely because it "appears" to be harder.
p/s i still respect everyone!

[The President]

I started and finished under the 2000 system, never studied a weekend or an evening past 6, unless it was the week before the exam. It was an easy system for a good test taker. I look at the new system and think I'd have to put in a lot more work to get through it all.

[James Joel]

I started and finished under the 2000 system, never studied a weekend or an evening past 6, unless it was the week before the exam. It was an easy system for a good test taker. I look at the new system and think I'd have to put in a lot more work to get through it all.

Not studying much and still passing is impressive.

What about the old exams was easier than the new batch?

[hardlife]

I started and finished under the 2000 system, never studied a weekend or an evening past 6, unless it was the week before the exam. It was an easy system for a good test taker. I look at the new system and think I'd have to put in a lot more work to get through it all.

I hate ppl like you cos I feel so so stupid!!! :(
Well...maybe i should say that I am not a good test-taker!

[The President]

What about the old exams was easier than the new batch?
I don't know if one is easier than the other - I think they benefit different styles of studying.

My process:
First 30-40 hours - scan through the readings, take no notes, just get familiar with it before the Jam Seminar
40 hours - go to Jam Seminar and focus on the most likely material to be tested.
Next 10-15 hours - re-work sample JAM numericals and previous exam questions.
30-40 hours memorize about 150 note cards - about 10 per day over a 3 week period.
Last 30 hours: review numericals, review note cards, read through published outlines to fill in the details for list questions.

I never did much focused reading for the exams. I found that once I had note-cards memorized that the material was much easier to organize in my mind, and the outlined material was easy to associate with what I had memorized and locked in.

I would not want to read through thousands of pages of material to get through the end of module exercises. I find when I do that, I constantly have to go back and re-read large sections of material. I learn a lot better by focusing on the key points and branching off from there, in a top-down sort of approach. This works much more efficiently for me than a linear section by section approach.

Also, in the new system, the thought of 2 6-hour exams is scary. Course 8 was much more difficult than 5&6. I am not sure I would want to make that trade-off alone, and especially not on top of all the modules and the assoicated work that goes along with them.

Just my thoughts - I had a good experience with the 2000 system and think anyone who sees 5&6 being replaced my modules aren't looking at the whole picture. It certainly makes becoming an ASA and stopping reasonable, but I think making it to FSA is going to be just as hard, if not harder.

[The President]

I hate ppl like you cos I feel so so stupid!!! :(
Well...maybe i should say that I am not a good test-taker!
lol - I had my share of feeling stupid and failing exams. I also think I got lucky more than once on an exam, from getting 5 of 12 questions right on course 3 that I had no idea how to do, just by picking the right letter - to picking out handful (about 6-7) of note cards I had yet to memorize the night before an essay exam and finding 3 questions written on them.

It really was more about doing the little things to improve my chances of passing that I think helped me out more than longer hours of studying. Being a smart test taker is sometimes better than being a smart person taking a test.

[wat?]

Sorry for pissing on ya'lls corn flakes, but just in case nobody has clued you newbies to the exam system in:

Everybody always claims that they had it harder, but you guys really DO have it easier. Go back and take a look at the 2000 system exams, and realize that the ones that they didn't publish were much worse!

Just remember when you run across an actuary like Bama Gambler, who passed every time under the 2000 system, you better show some respect.

So how about those people that take 1-7 in the old system and take two Course 8's instead of a Course 8 and PD? More respect? Less respect? Doesn't matter?

[AggieAct02]

Personally I'd rather take an exam that write a report. I chose a master's degree that didn't require a thesis for the same reason. I think that it would be very difficult and time consuming to find a project and do the research. I would say that one is a toss up. The exams are hard but at least you are given a guide and have some idea how to prepare for them by the time you get to the FSA level exams.

[The President]

Sorry for pissing on ya'lls corn flakes, but just in case nobody has clued you newbies to the exam system in:

Everybody always claims that they had it harder, but you guys really DO have it easier. Go back and take a look at the 2000 system exams, and realize that the ones that they didn't publish were much worse!

Just remember when you run across an actuary like Bama Gambler, who passed every time under the 2000 system, you better show some respect.

So how about those people that take 1-7 in the old system and take two Course 8's instead of a Course 8 and PD? More respect? Less respect? Doesn't matter?
Hey - if nothing else, you get an extra exam raise (assuming you get nothing for PD like many programs I have seen).

[wat?]

So how about those people that take 1-7 in the old system and take two Course 8's instead of a Course 8 and PD? More respect? Less respect? Doesn't matter?
Hey - if nothing else, you get an extra exam raise (assuming you get nothing for PD like many programs I have seen).

Yeah, good point. But to be honest, I'm of the 3rd belief - it really doesn't matter whether I've put in more effort compared to others. Just as long as you put in what you needed to get though the exams.

[_BullDog_]

Any system that lets people pass 3-4 exams in one sitting is a joke........ [ducking]

[The President]

Any system that lets people pass 3-4 exams in one sitting is a joke........ [ducking]
But that was what 2000 was all about - they made it easier by combinig 3-4 exams into one and letting you get by without the knowledge to pass one of them.

[RealSix]

YOu are screwed Wat? :)

You are full of crap or a genius President.

[RealSix]

I guarentee you that president did not, in fact, take the 2000 exams.

[The President]

I guarentee you that president did not, in fact, take the 2000 exams.
:shrug:

[BucsFan]

I'm not the world's greatest test-taker, but I definitely have a lot of heart when it comes to studying for and taking exams. Under the 1987 system (smaller but much more numerous exams), they started asking some really weird s**t questions since they ran out of REAL questions to ask. I had to take each exam three times (on average) before I passed it.

Under the 2000 system, each exam was a lot more comprehensive and they made an extra effort to stay two steps ahead of the study guide authors who were teaching people how to pass. Again, I had to take each exam three times (on average) before I passed it.

I'm welcoming the change to the 2007 exam system. Modules 6-8 teach the same material (basically) that Course 7 did, except we'll have 3-4 days to write our final papers instead of just 9-1/2 hours. In the real world, 3-4 days is a much more realistic timeline for giving a formal business report to non-actuaries than 9-1/2 hours.

Like they said about Babe Ruth, "If he wasn't hitting them out [of the ballpark], he was striking them out." I have to keep that in mind until I finally get my FSA.

[Roto]

You are an idiot and an ******* RealSix.

We are all dumber for having donating our time to you by reading your thoughts.

Mods, please delete this thread, for we don't want the secret to get out that the designation of FSA is being cheapened.

[Bühlmann]

The change to the 2007 exam system is a big change that's for sure. Think about it....upcoming FSA's will have to take 12 hours of exam over practice specific material. Plus, they have to do 2 FSA modules (accompanied by exercises to formally hand in) in addition to the SBM module. There is no doubt that FSA education will be more robust than it has been.

Also, they are adding a 1/2 hour to FM and an hour to M for financial economic education purposes. The death of Course 6 comes as a big welcome for people like me who work in health insurance and really don't need 6 hours of investment and financial economic knowledge. A certain core is understandable (as the additions to FM, M and C will be the core). A good move IMO. I needed experience in writing memorandums and considering things from the actuarial management perspective...something I would not get from taking an exam or being the spreadsheet peon that I am at work because I'm not an ASA yet. The modules are doing just that for me.

I personally think the actuarial exam civil war needs to come to a halt. :judge:

[RealSix]

You are an idiot and an ******* RealSix.


:) :)

[PapaBear]

I personally think the actuarial exam civil war needs to come to a halt. :judge:

There's nothing civil about this war, at least what I've been reading.

I think the '87 system was the worst, because you took each exam 2-3 times, and there were a lot more of them you had to pass. Some folks would take only one 15 credit test (1.5-2 hours), and others would attempt 40 credits, which was the equivalent of a standard 4 hour exam under the 2000 system. Of course, the people who took 3 different tests had a much less time on each test, and thus were at a competitive disadvantage against the 15 credit "plodders". After awhile, "plodding" became the thing to do if you wanted to pass. Unfortunately, FSA was 450 credits, and ASA was 300 credits, so you'd have to pass about 15 tests to be an ASA (there were a few Associateship tests over 20 credits), and 25 tests to become an FSA. That meant it would take someone in that system about 10-15 years to become an FSA.

Having worked in this industry well over a decade, I have met just a handful of FSAs who completed their entire fellowship under the 1987 system. Most FSAs I know either

1) completed their fellowship prior to '87 in the 10 exam system,
2) started in the 10 exam system and finished up (and took a long time doing it) under the '87 system, or
3) started in the '87 system and finished in the 2000 system.

I've also known a few who have done it entirely in the 2000 system, which is only six years old (and already defunct). I haven't met a single person who completed their FSA under the '87 system in less than 8 years, and it was around for 13 years. That should tell you something.

Now the FAPs really have me wondering what the plan is.

Oh well.

"You cannot stop the E&E Committee. You can only hope to contain it."

[RealSix]

Don't worry, if I get in a position to do something about this crap, things will be radically different.

What they are doing is selling out the society to please their companies.

[jelizmanning]

To be honest, I don't think the level of the FSA has diminished under this new system. Two 6-hour exams means there's only one less essay exam than there was in the 2000 system. Course 7 translated pretty well and there's definitely a lot of time put in in those FAP modules. If anything, it's the ASA that is diminished. (I find it interesting that they created that ERM ASA.) Instead of an essay exam and course 7 (the easiest route), they do course 7 type work and FAP modules, which is more likely to pass on the first try than the course 5 exam. However, the two FSA level exams are large, making up for the easier FAP modules. And the additional requirement for M is going to make that pretty hard; people already had a hard enough time with life con, not to mention making it a 3 hour exam by itself with financial economics being the other 2 hours (and the financial economics stuff is pretty tough).

Wat?, how did you get stuck? I thought you had it made and were gunning for a run of the table. You even got 7. How did you miss an opportunity at the PD requirement? Or did you sit out 8 this fall?

[wat?]

To be honest, I don't think the level of the FSA has diminished under this new system. Two 6-hour exams means there's only one less essay exam than there was in the 2000 system. Course 7 translated pretty well and there's definitely a lot of time put in in those FAP modules. If anything, it's the ASA that is diminished. (I find it interesting that they created that ERM ASA.) Instead of an essay exam and course 7 (the easiest route), they do course 7 type work and FAP modules, which is more likely to pass on the first try than the course 5 exam. However, the two FSA level exams are large, making up for the easier FAP modules. And the additional requirement for M is going to make that pretty hard; people already had a hard enough time with life con, not to mention making it a 3 hour exam by itself with financial economics being the other 2 hours (and the financial economics stuff is pretty tough).

I agree - all in all, I think the amount of information learned from a 2005-07 system FSA is at least as much as the amount as a 2000 system FSA.

Wat?, how did you get stuck? I thought you had it made and were gunning for a run of the table. You even got 7. How did you miss an opportunity at the PD requirement? Or did you sit out 8 this fall?

I did sit out 8, and I'm going to 7 in less than a month. So luck permitting, I'll have CSP & DP remaining.

[Surfohio]

I think it is a little unbalanced that for FSA some people will only be taking one 6-hour written answer exam (with PD from pre-2000 and Credit for P,FM,M,C) while others will be taking four of them (old course 5,6, 8/DP and CSP). I suppose it is a minor concern since there are only a few of them in either category, but it seems like the conversion could have been set-up more equitably.

[James Joel]

I think it is a little unbalanced that for FSA some people will only be taking one 6-hour written answer exam (with PD from pre-2000 and Credit for P,FM,M,C) while others will be taking four of them (old course 5,6, 8/DP and CSP). I suppose it is a minor concern since there are only a few of them in either category, but it seems like the conversion could have been set-up more equitably.

The equitably only comes once a year.

[remilard]

5 and 6 were 6 hour written answer exams?

[The President]

5 and 6 were 6 hour written answer exams?
5 hour exams, written answer/ MC.

[CAPTAIN_MORGAN]

IF SOMEONE WORKS HARD, OPPOSES ALL ODDS, AND PROVES WHAT THEY HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BECOME AN ACTUARY BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR DREAM - I CAN RESPECT THAT.

EXAMS BY THEMSELVES ARE NOT, AND WILL NEVER BE, AN APPROPRIATE GAUGE FOR RESPECT. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE PUTZES WHO TAKE/ PASS EXAMS (NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE) BECAUSE THEY WANT THE MONEY, THEY HAVE NO OTHER OUTLET ON HOW TO SPEND THEIR TIME AND WANT THE ATTENTION, THEY STUDY A LOT AS OPPOSED TO DOING WHAT THEIR JOB IS SUPPOSEDLY PAYING THEM FOR OR BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MORAL SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING ELSE IN THEIR LIVES.

[MikeTheTiger]

I think it is a little unbalanced that for FSA some people will only be taking one 6-hour written answer exam (with PD from pre-2000 and Credit for P,FM,M,C) while others will be taking four of them (old course 5,6, 8/DP and CSP). I suppose it is a minor concern since there are only a few of them in either category, but it seems like the conversion could have been set-up more equitably.

I am one of the lucky few in the one written answer exam category. I started the process in 1996 and passed 100, 110 and 120. After a 6-year detour into software development, I have passed 2 (before it became FM), M, C and FAP 1. Hopefully I just passed 8M this sitting. Course 2 avoided Financial/Economic VEE and 120 gave me credit for the Applied Statistics VEE. 110 gave me P. That means that simply for having passed 100, I avoid DP and don't even have to do the project for PD. Honestly, I feel like someone looked at my transcript and figured out what would give me the easiest path to FSA. My apologies to those who have passed 5 and 6, but not 8.

[CAPTAIN_MORGAN]

I am one of the lucky few in the one written answer exam category. I started the process in 1996 and passed 100, 110 and 120. After a 6-year detour into software development, I have passed 2 (before it became FM), M, C and FAP 1. Hopefully I just passed 8M this sitting. Course 2 avoided Financial/Economic VEE and 120 gave me credit for the Applied Statistics VEE. 110 gave me P. That means that simply for having passed 100, I avoid DP and don't even have to do the project for PD. Honestly, I feel like someone looked at my transcript and figured out what would give me the easiest path to FSA. My apologies to those who have passed 5 and 6, but not 8.

BUT NOW YOUR OLD!!! MY APOLOGIES TO YOU. HARRRRRR!

[Caramel]

Sorry for pissing on ya'lls corn flakes, but just in case nobody has clued you newbies to the exam system in:

Everybody always claims that they had it harder, but you guys really DO have it easier. Go back and take a look at the 2000 system exams, and realize that the ones that they didn't publish were much worse!

Just remember when you run across an actuary like Bama Gambler, who passed every time under the 2000 system, you better show some respect.

Way to go RealSixer, I totally agree with you!

So far, base on my observation during university and full-time experience, only the very strong and dedicated students could have passed every exam one shot under the 2000 system.

[Caramel]

I started and finished under the 2000 system, never studied a weekend or an evening past 6, unless it was the week before the exam. It was an easy system for a good test taker. I look at the new system and think I'd have to put in a lot more work to get through it all.

Impressive Mr. President!

Where have you been in all my life?! You should have taught us "The Force" on how to pass exams with such ease!

For every exam that I passed, I must dump a boyfriend, they have become too distractive during my long hours of weekend studies! If I knew you back then, I could have kept all my boy-toys! Damn!

[Caramel]

Sorry for pissing on ya'lls corn flakes, but just in case nobody has clued you newbies to the exam system in:

Everybody always claims that they had it harder, but you guys really DO have it easier. Go back and take a look at the 2000 system exams, and realize that the ones that they didn't publish were much worse!

Just remember when you run across an actuary like Bama Gambler, who passed every time under the 2000 system, you better show some respect.

So how about those people that take 1-7 in the old system and take two Course 8's instead of a Course 8 and PD? More respect? Less respect? Doesn't matter?

My solide condolence for those people, I am shedding my tears now...Wait, that is ME that you are talking about?!

Ah! Pity for me I guess, and hand me over another green-apple martini, as I have NO RESPECT for myself to allow SOA to screw me over, and over, and over...

[Caramel]

I think it is a little unbalanced that for FSA some people will only be taking one 6-hour written answer exam (with PD from pre-2000 and Credit for P,FM,M,C) while others will be taking four of them (old course 5,6, 8/DP and CSP). I suppose it is a minor concern since there are only a few of them in either category, but it seems like the conversion could have been set-up more equitably.

I am one of the lucky few in the one written answer exam category. I started the process in 1996 and passed 100, 110 and 120. After a 6-year detour into software development, I have passed 2 (before it became FM), M, C and FAP 1. Hopefully I just passed 8M this sitting. Course 2 avoided Financial/Economic VEE and 120 gave me credit for the Applied Statistics VEE. 110 gave me P. That means that simply for having passed 100, I avoid DP and don't even have to do the project for PD. Honestly, I feel like someone looked at my transcript and figured out what would give me the easiest path to FSA. My apologies to those who have passed 5 and 6, but not 8.

It's actually comforting to know the "detour" you took actually helped you to move forward with more ease!

And now, you have working experience in both actuarial and software industries under your belt, sweet!

[Caramel]

The death of Course 6 comes as a big welcome for people like me who work in health insurance and really don't need 6 hours of investment and financial economic knowledge.

I don't really need much investment and financial knowledge either in my practice area, but I really enjoyed studying Course 6!

I have actuarial friends who work in the Investment field and, and what we learned in C6 was very useful for students who consider investment track.

I also have many friends with CFA designation, and they were surprised that I know as much about Invesment and Financial Economic as they do; and that I actually have better understanding of bond structures, interest rate & currency swaps than they do.

You might be a bit too narrow minded about Course 7, Mr. Bulhmann!

[Caramel]

Don't worry, if I get in a position to do something about this crap, things will be radically different.

What they are doing is selling out the society to please their companies.

Gee, RealSix, I start to think you are my true actuarial soul mate, I can't help agree on everything you said.

Once I obtain my FSA, I'd like to participate/volunteer/be involved with SOA, and E&E Committee. It is useless to whine and complain, we can only make impact by surviving through the system first!

What does it take to be in SOA E&E Committee? Do I need a D-cup and blond hair? :P

[Kabaka]

Way to go RealSixer, I totally agree with you!...


Impressive Mr. President!

Where have you been in all my life?! You should have taught us "The Force" on how to pass exams with such ease!...


My solide condolence for those people, I am shedding my tears now...


It's actually comforting to know the "detour" you took actually helped you to move forward with more ease!...



I don't really need much investment and financial knowledge either in my practice area, but I really enjoyed studying Course 6!...


You must be one of those people who love the sound of their own voice.

[RichieGB]

Yeah, no kidding. I think her record of one boyfriend per every exam sitting has little to do with the actual exams, six months is probably all they can listen to.

[Caramel]

You must be one of those people who love the sound of their own voice.

Since when is so wrong to agree with someone's opinion? If I agree with what RealSixer said/wrote, does that piss you off?

[Caramel]

Yeah, no kidding. I think her record of one boyfriend per every exam sitting has little to do with the actual exams, six months is probably all they can listen to.

Boytoys nowadays are made with cheap materials as you, RichieGB, that's why they don't last over 6 months :P

Also, when I study for exams, I really have no time to talk. Unless it's repeating after JAMs CDs!

[wat?]

My solide condolence for those people, I am shedding my tears now...Wait, that is ME that you are talking about?!

Ah! Pity for me I guess, and hand me over another green-apple martini, as I have NO RESPECT for myself to allow SOA to screw me over, and over, and over...

I wasn't asking for a bowl to cry in. I'm just saying it's possible for things to be harder than Courses 1-8 + PD - at least, on paper.