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-   -   Without an internship, am I screwed? (http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=313065)

Gilgamesh 09-04-2016 12:07 PM

Without an internship, am I screwed?
 
I got a BS Math a couple years ago, and have 2 exams under my belt. After a few months of applying for jobs to no success, I entered graduate school for MS Stats degree because I didn't see a better option (thought I might become a statistician instead of an actuary).

I would like to give the actuary thing another go now, but I don't really know what my chances are.

I know in most industries nowadays, it's important to have an internship even just to get an EL position. Most internships require you to be in college, and an undergraduate (not a graduate like me).



Does anyone know what my chances are of finding employment without an internship, and if/how I can overcome this? I don't want to be forever exiled from the industry just because I don't have an internship.


Thanks for your advice.

Colonel Smoothie 09-04-2016 12:34 PM

No

Colonel Smoothie 09-04-2016 12:34 PM

good job on beating OU yesterday lol

FactuarialStatement 09-04-2016 01:07 PM

You are not screwed, but it will be harder for you. I would say though, if you finish your masters degree and can work on some interesting modeling projects, forget actuarial and look for statistician/analytics roles. They pay better and you are not confined to the insurance industry. Lots of employers, insurance and other, are looking to hire people who can work with and develop algorithms. The work is certainly a lot more interesting than a lot of actuarial roles out there. Why not finish that degree and then find a data science/modeler/statistician role? My friend has been working for a year after finishing his MS in stats and is making 6 figures in CT. He's interviewing now in NYC for positions paying in the 180K neighborhood. Granted he is very smart and well versed in stats, moreso than any PhD I've met to date, and he interacts with some well-known statisticians (name rhymes with Mandrew Felman) on applications for some newer methods implemented in Stan. So you may not be a rock star but you can do pretty well as a MS stats person.

lllj 09-04-2016 01:38 PM

you can get internships as a grad student. much easier than getting internships while not enrolled in school.

JMO 09-04-2016 01:55 PM

If you don't apply, your chances are zero. I think DTNF's sig line says something like that.
There are a lot of people looking for EL jobs these days. So, good luck.

Gilgamesh 09-04-2016 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie (Post 8670666)
good job on beating OU yesterday lol

Thanks for keeping me refreshed a couple days ago. :wink:

windows7forever 09-04-2016 02:29 PM

How many jobs have you applied for? There are many internships require students to be in college, but there are others do not. You also can improve programming and modeling skills in graduate statistics courses. Even for statistics masters, you need to have some experience to get the first full-time position. The job placement rate for statistics masters is not 100%.

Gilgamesh 09-04-2016 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FactuarialStatement (Post 8670673)
You are not screwed, but it will be harder for you. I would say though, if you finish your masters degree and can work on some interesting modeling projects, forget actuarial and look for statistician/analytics roles. They pay better and you are not confined to the insurance industry. Lots of employers, insurance and other, are looking to hire people who can work with and develop algorithms. The work is certainly a lot more interesting than a lot of actuarial roles out there. Why not finish that degree and then find a data science/modeler/statistician role? My friend has been working for a year after finishing his MS in stats and is making 6 figures in CT. He's interviewing now in NYC for positions paying in the 180K neighborhood. Granted he is very smart and well versed in stats, moreso than any PhD I've met to date, and he interacts with some well-known statisticians (name rhymes with Mandrew Felman) on applications for some newer methods implemented in Stan. So you may not be a rock star but you can do pretty well as a MS stats person.

Thanks a lot for the broader advice on my situation. First of all, as you said I obviously will not likely mimic your friend's situation, but even as an average MS statistician, do you really think that would pay as well, or be better overall as an actuary?


I've talked to one of my professors about it and he says there are a lot of positions that take statisticians right out of college and pay them 6 figures, but they usually require a Ph.D. This has been my main aversion to going down the statistics path.


Now, understand that I am not only concerned with the job that pays the highest, but if I am to make a decisive choice to abandon actuary for statistics, there would have to be significant reasons for doing so because in terms of applied math, one doesn't seem much different or preferable than the other to me, and from what I've read, an actuarial career is one of the most desired in today's economy (or at least it was ranked highly in some magazine, you probably know what I'm talking about.)

Gilgamesh 09-04-2016 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windows7forever (Post 8670699)
How many jobs have you applied for? There are many internships require students to be in college, but there are others do not. You also can improve programming and modeling skills in graduate statistics courses. Even for statistics masters, you need to have some experience to get the first full-time position. The job placement rate for statistics masters is not 100%.

I had applied to around maybe 20 before I entered graduate school. The thing is that the Fall semester was coming around the corner and I had already been considering it. Additionally, I had tried to get on board with DW Simpson, but they told me that I needed 3 exams (I have 2) and a bunch of software proficiency that I didn't have. So I chose graduate school.


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