Southern Poverty Law Center Declares Men Hate Group

[Devil's Advocate]

The SPLC was founded in 1971 as a non-profit devoted to civil rights legislation related activities and protection of minorities from persecution. SLPC has an endowment fund over $200mil and the lists they publish as used by Homeland Security and other federal agencies to monitor “hate groups”. Recently the SPLC decided that a wide variety of “game”, PUA, and MRM (men’s rights movement) sites constituted hate groups. You can find the list of identified sites.

There is so much to cover here that I wanted to break this into parts. I have to say, this is the jump the shark moment for me in terms of knowing the society I live in doesn’t give a shit about me. My reaction ranges from the absurd (Roosh is a the equivalent of a Klansmen because he doesn’t call women after one night stands), to the dejected (MRM sites try to stick up for the important rights of husbands, fathers, and boys that get screwed over by the legal system). The SPLC list has real and potentially devastating consequences for those on it.

So I ask you, don’t these two seem the same.

[Devil's Advocate]

One of the targets of the hate list is “A Voice For Men”, a blog that, like most on the list, I’ve either never or infrequently read. AVFM does a lot of advocacy for blue chip men’s rights issues. When I think of them I think of my co-worker. He was a normal family man being a good father and provider until his wife got bored and divorced him. Now he lives like a pauper and had his kid taken away. He is expected to send her a kings ransom in child support and alimony, which she spends on herself leaving him to buy things for his daughter on his own. She also maxed out a bunch of credit cards in his name and emptied the bank accounts right before handing him divorce papers. AVFM tries to get men a fair shake in these situations, which as we know is “hate”.

AVFM responded in a letter to the SPLC:
An open letter to Richard Cohen of the SPLC
Richard Cohen
Southern Poverty Law Center
400 Washington Avenue
Montgomery, AL 36104
Re: Identification of A Voice For Men as a Misogynist Web Site

Dear Mr. Cohen,

Yesterday I received the unfortunate news that your organization, the Southern Poverty Law Center (“SPLC”) listed my website, avoiceformen.com, among others, as misogynistic, or “woman-hating.” This description is found in “Intelligence Report, Spring 2012, Issue Number: 145,” on your website at http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...gyny-the-sites.
Specifically, your report states the following:

The excerpts you have chosen from these sites are taken out of context and misrepresent the goals of A Voice For Men (“AVfM”) and Register-Her. Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. If you would allow me to do so, I would like to clear up some misconceptions about AVfM so that SPLC and its supporters can reconsider their view of my service.

A Voice for Men has more than 90 registered contributors. Similar to the supporters of SPLC, AVfM’s contributors are male and female, Black, White, Hispanic and Asian; gay and straight; Jew, Atheist and Christian; from all points of the political spectrum; and they all hail from many different nations across the planet. We invite even more diversity. All of our contributors share a common interest and concern in the affairs of men and boys. They speak to the issues autonomously – not as a mouthpiece for the editor. I regularly find AVfM publishing content I do not wholly agree with, or stated in terms that I personally would not necessarily use. However, it is not my role to impose a uniform voice upon AVfM’s contributors – my role is to ensure that the site furthers its purpose of speaking truth to power.

The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC. The beneficiaries of SPLC’s labors are more likely than not to be men. Men and boys face very serious problems in modern society. Men are more likely than women to be homeless, on society’s bottom rungs.[1] Men are more likely than women to commit suicide, as well.[2] America’s exploding prison population, which overwhelmingly includes and victimizes the working class and new poor, contains more than 2 million people, but under 100,000 women.[3] This disparity has had profound effects on African-American men, as more of them are incarcerated than in post-secondary education.[4] Young men, ignorant rather than criminal, are placed on lifelong sex offender registries that prevent them from obtaining education and even healthcare, and ensuring that they will never contribute to society.[5] Relatedly, male attendance in higher education has fallen to 40% and continues to diminish,[6] and men lag far behind women in obtaining advanced degrees.[7] The performance of boys in our grade, middle and high schools is deteriorating. Meanwhile, men have become a minority in the workforce, ensuring their further social and economic marginalization, as well as any hope of upward economic mobility.[8]

Men face additional disparities in selective service, reproductive rights, healthcare funding, and many other areas. These differences are documented and undeniable. While society once rallied around the right of a woman to control whether she has a child – an the economic consequences it carries – there is no concomitant outcry to ensure men are not laden with the lifelong obligation of another human being. While the NFL is awash with pink every October to raise awareness for breast cancer, nary a mention is made of its equally lethal male-only cousin, prostate cancer.[9] The examples are endless. These are problems that must be addressed in a just society. Sadly, until now, it would seem to have been in the purview of SPLC to help ameliorate these problems, not aggravate them.

I also believe you may have misunderstood some of AVfM’s semantics. A “white knight” is an expression describing a traditional male, one who practices chivalry to a degree that is irrational and demeaning in this day and age. Also, the term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes[10] – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).

Regarding Register-Her.com, SPLC states the following:

The movement for civil and socioeconomic equality in America was and is difficult, and spans both racial and class lines. For many years the majority resisted progress, but found that nothing could stem the human desire for civil liberty; Not slavery, not Jim Crow, not water cannons or batons or even bullets. While the SPLC has done good work for the cause of equality across incomes and races, it was not lawyers and arms-length activists that took the brunt of standing up to an unjust system. It was the men and women on the street that would not be bullied any more that forced the world to change. That world was as hostilely indifferent to the struggles of African-Americans as you appear to be to the struggles of men and boys.

There are hundreds of websites dedicated to real, actual hate on the Internet, with more springing up all the time. AVFM, a human rights organization, is not one of them. Nor are the others that you identify as sources of misogyny, such as The Spearhead and the False Rape Society. Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” For men and boys, there is no more time for complacency.

It is no surprise that a movement like AVfM’s began on the internet, as the free flow of information finally made it possible for men to see what they had long suspected: The laws and norms of society had turned against them. This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations. I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.
The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.

Sincerely,
Paul Elam
Publisher,
avoiceformen.com
This letter available in .pdf download: Open-Letter-SPLC.
________________________________________
[1] http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/who.html
[2] http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...icineandhealth
[3] http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html
[4] Id.
[5] http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/20...istration.html
[6] See Hanna Rosin, The End of Men, The Atlantic (Jul. 2010), http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ngle_page=true (last accessed Mar. 8, 2012).
[7] http://www.census.gov/newsroom/relea...n/cb11-72.html
[8] See Rosin, supra at n. 5.
[9] Amanda Chan, The Top 10 Deadliest Cancers – And Why There’s No Cure, MSNBC.com (Sept. 10, 2010), http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39102353.../#.T1mL0a6D-1k (last accessed Mar. 8, 2012).
[10] In one study, Eugene J. Kanin found that 53% of women admitted to filing the false claim for use as an alibi. About Half of Rape Allegations are False, Research Shows, RADAR, http://www.mediaradar.org/research_o...llegations.php (last accessed Mar. 8, 2012).

[Devil's Advocate]

I think the most hilarious person on the list is Roosh. Here’s the background on Roosh:

1) Kid grows up in conservative Indian family. Does the usual repressed nerd upbringing with them. Graduates from good college with microbiology degree and gets donkey job in DC.

2) Man realizes that all the stuff his parents told him about how studying hard and getting a good job would give him the good life is a lie. Can’t get a date. Goes to boring dead end donkey job all day.

3) Gets fed up and finds “game”. Starts doing better with girls. Once he realizes that he doesn’t need donkey job to get girls decides to quit and travel the world.

4) Travels to different countries learning the language, interacting with locals, seeing sites, and reading books in coffee shops. Along the way he spends a lot of time hitting on and banging local women. Compiles a book of his experiences by country: “Bang Columbia”, “Bang Denmark”, etc. Makes enough money off the books to eat ramen every day and stay in hostels.

Sounds like a KKKer to me. What did Roosh write that put him in the hate camp:

“I’ll be the first to admit that many of my bangs in the United States were hate ****s. The masculine attitude and lack of care these women put into their style or hair irritated me, so I made it a point to **** them and never call again.”

That’s right guys. Don’t you dare have one night stands with girls and then don’t call them back. Otherwise you might end up on some Homeland Security watch list.

[Devil's Advocate]

The Roosh thing brings up something interesting. It’s long been my opinion that men’s actions aren’t judged by women, but the men themselves. If a sexy man does something, it’s always right. If an unsexy man does something, it’s always wrong. We can see that pretty clearly in the SLPC founder Morris Dees.

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2...d-ultra-creep/

Morris Dees, Pathological Narcissist and Ultra-Creep

Normally, I don’t give a damn about stuff like this. I don’t care about womanizers. Some of my best friends were pretty notorious. But those guys for the most part had class. I don’t even care too much about guys who cheat on their wives, though you ought to try to be discreet if you do it. JFK wasn’t a bad man. Teddy Kennedy isn’t a bad man. Neither is Bill Clinton. Not all men can be faithful, but I think if you can’t, maybe you should not even get married in the first place.

This Morris Dees guy from the SPLC just goes way overboard.

Here are two pages from his divorce proceedings. This man is not just a sex addict and a womanizer, that’s not a problem. Worse, he is an out and out pathological narcissist. He’s like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey MacDonald. I suspect that in most cases, these guys are highly controlled like Dees and never commit any serious crimes, though they always push the envelope and often break the law.

For instance, it appears that Dees enjoyed peeping on his 16 year old daughter when she was naked. Also, at age 16, he appears to have either attempted to have sex with her or at the very least acted very inappropriately with her. I understand why men chase 16-year olds, but if you get caught, you are going down hard. The law’s the law. But what kind of a guy peeps on and tries to seduce his own 16 daughter, step-daughter or not?

Morris Dees, sexually, is simply a creep. I hate to say it, but it’s true. He’s more than a womanizer; he’s an emotionally destroying monster. He’s a sexual psychopath and an emotional terrorist. As a man, he has no class. As a human being, he’s no good. The guy’s simply a prick. In White society, sooner or later, guys like this get punched out or even get their asses kicked. In more primitive societies, they might just get killed. He’s probably avoided all this because he’s rich.

In 1978, Dees conducted an affair with a woman, Vicki Booker McGaha. He told the wife over and over he was going to knock it off, but then kept going back to her. Finally he dragged both women over to the house and played sick emotional power games with them, almost making them fight over him, toying with them like a cat toys with a mouse before it kills it.

Finally he told Maureene, the wife, that she could see other guys, since she was threatening divorce, but she had to be discreet about it. Was Morris Dees discreet about his affairs? Of course not!
The wife went to Washington DC and met a lover there. Dees tailed her there and followed her to her hotel room where he hid. When she was in bed with her lover, he burst out and took pictures with a camera, causing a huge scene.

Dees was acting insane, and Maureene was afraid he was going to kill everyone in the room. He screamed that he had five detectives with him. He freaked out and punched Maureene in the face, breaking her jaw. Afterward, he whipped out an abusive divorce contract and practically forced her sign it. She signed it out of fear. He later gave her copies of the photos taken that night and told her to destroy them, as he said they were the only copies. Dees lied once again, as he retained copies for himself.

Starting right after they were married, Dees bragged incessantly, always saying how with his looks and money, he could get any woman he wanted. He constantly told Maureene about how women were propositioning him. Later in the marriage, he frequently regaled her with tales of all the women he had had affairs with while he was married to her.
Among other women he had affairs with was Cathy Bennett, a female psychologist. He brought her over to his home to meet his wife, and she stayed with them for a week. At the time, he was apparently having an affair with her.

The Dees threw a party at their home in 1977. D. Rodgers, a physician, showed up, along with his wife, Judith Rodgers, a criminal psychologist. Incredibly, Dees took the doctor’s wife upstairs to his bedroom and had sex with her while the party was still going on!

Dees interviewed Deborah Levy, who worked for the ACLU, to run a magazine Dees was thinking of starting up that opposed the death penalty. The magazine never got going, but Levy and her boyfriend did visit the home for several days. Once Dees and his wife went on a canoe trip with the couple. Maureene woke in the night to find Dees having sex with Levy.

Dees turned to Maureene and ordered her to have sex with Levy’s boyfriend, but Maureene was not into that. Shortly before morning, Maureene woke again and Dees and Levy were having sex again, this time right next to her. Dees turned and kissed her while he was screwing Levy. Maureene was very upset by this, and in the morning she said she did not want this stuff to happen again.

Later, Dees and his wife went to New York. While there, Dees insisted that the couple visit Levy and her boyfriend, Michael Gaas. The couple went out for dinner. The next day, all four were talking, and Dees interrupted the conversation to tell Gaas that Dees and Levy were planning to go off and have sex that afternoon. Maureene was enraged and embarrassed by this.

Gaas was shocked and said that if that’s what you want to do, go ahead and do it. So Dees and Levy went off the bedroom and had sex, leaving Maureene and Gaas sitting there. To get back at him, Maureene and Gaas had sex in the living room. 45 minutes later, Dees left the apartment, came back after a while, and punched Gaas in the face, apparently for having sex with Maureene.

Later the couple met Charlie Springman, a gay man who worked for the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA). Morris invited the man back up to their room over Maureene’s objections, and Dees kept trying to seduce Charlie, while Charlie tried repeatedly to leave. Finally, Dees asked Charlie to get in bed with them, and Maureene said forget it and headed off to bed.

Later, Dees and Charlie ended up in bed, with Maureene in the middle. Dees and Charlie then leaned over Maureene and kissed and sucked each others’ cocks to Maureene’s displeasure.
In the morning, Dees left. He came back and found Maureene crying on the bed. Dees said it would never happen again.

Dees’ son Scooter was dating Karen Sherman. She later married Scooter and became Karen Sherman Dees. At the time, they were 18 or 19 years old and were frequently over at Dees’ house. Unbelievably, Dees seduced his own son’s girlfriend right in front of his son’s eyes!

After dinner one night, Maureene and Scooter were washing the dishes, and Dees and Karen took off for the pool. Maureene and Scooter later headed towards the pool too, but before they got there, Maureene saw Dees with his arms around Karen. Both were naked, and Dees had a hardon. Maureen turned around, decided she did not want to go swimming, and steered Scooter away from the pool.

Later that night, Dees and his wife were lying in bed. Karen came into the room, naked except for a towel. She proceeded to climb into bed on Dees’ side. She stayed there for 10 minutes and then left.

This guy is just unbelievable. He wins Creep of the Year Award. I also insist that he’s a pathological narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. That’s redundant, because all pathological narcissists, and many narcissists for that matter, have sociopathic tendencies. I’m hardly an angel, but the way I see it is that Morris Dees is a bad man and a bad human being. That’s leaving aside his outrageous hustle exercise in con artistry called the SPLC.

A lot of people have noted that the SPLC is basically turning into a giant scam for its founders to get rich. The whole man-o-sphere thing may just be a fundraising ploy. But since government agencies use this stuff we have to take it seriously. From wiki:

Criticism
Dees has faced criticism that he uses too much of the Southern Poverty Law Center's fundraising intake as personal income - and even accusations that the SPLC exists mostly as a fundraising vehicle. A 2000 article by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, titled "The Church of Morris Dees", alleged that Dees kept the SPLC focused on fighting anti-minority groups like the KKK, instead of on issues like homelessness, mostly because of the greater fundraising potential of the former. The article also claimed that the SPLC "spends twice as much on fund-raising--$5.76 million last year--as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses."[16] In 2005, Washington Times editor Wesley Pruden called Dees "nothing more than a scam artist."[17] Stephen Bright, an Atlanta-based civil rights attorney, wrote in 2007 that Dees was "a con man and fraud", who "has taken advantage of naive, well-meaning people–some of moderate or low incomes–who believe his pitches and give to his $175-million operation."[18]

[Devil's Advocate]

A lot of sites have been linking back to “The Misandry Bubble” as the persecution of the SPLC seems to justify the guy’s claims. I haven’t read it in a long time, make up your own mind.

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/...ry-bubble.html

[Devil's Advocate]

Conclusion:

I don’t know where to start. I think I’ve just about given up on society. Between all this, watching my co-worker get his life destroyed by divorce, knowing that our female actuaries have been paying the marginally employed dude in our mail room for sex, how can you not come to the conclusion that this is some sort of crazy dystopian novel. AVFM characterized itself as a human rights organization, but I’ve come to realize the essential fact of modern society: beta males are not considered human beings. They have no human rights. To our society, we are nothing. And since we are nothing, we owe it nothing.

Most game sites seem to take it as a mark of privilege. A sign that people are afraid. Roissy wonders how anyone could leave him off the list. Roosh is worried his conservative parents will find out.

I will continue to use game and visit these sites. I was on a date with a nice smoking hot girl that was really into me the other day, and we have another date arranged. And I owe it all to game. She was losing interest early on, I hit her with the perfect neg, and now she is all over me. Thanks, game! If my IP address gets lifted and I get put on a hate group watch, so be it.

[Loner]

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

knowing that our female actuaries have been paying the marginally employed dude in our mail room for sex,

Way to bury the lede, DA. Please elaborate. Frankly, this seems like the man is winning.

[Loner]

Originally Posted by Loner

Way to bury the lede, DA. Please elaborate. Frankly, this seems like the man is winning.

Out with it!

[Jack]

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

The SPLC was founded in 1971 as a non-profit devoted to civil rights legislation related activities and protection of minorities from persecution. SLPC has an endowment fund over $200mil and the lists they publish as used by Homeland Security and other federal agencies to monitor “hate groups”. Recently the SPLC decided that a wide variety of “game”, PUA, and MRM (men’s rights movement) sites constituted hate groups. You can find the list of identified sites.

I too have always thought Paid Up Additions are hateful.

[Agadefe]

Dude, random groups which have an "agenda" will always do bs stuff. You analyzed them in this thread as if you think a majority of normal people would agree that Roosh et al are hate groups.

Who cares man? Okay game 'works' for you. Why do you feel it's such a personal attack on you if some random group attacks the concept of PUA? "Given up on society", that is some depressing shit. You give up on society because some random group that you probably don't give a shit about thinks some people you think have good ideas are speaking hate?

imo.