When did the NFL change the rules?

[IAm@Work.com]

There are two things that prompt the question, "When did the NFL change the rules?"

One of the Pats drives was helped by a "holding - 5 yards, automatic first down". When did this come in? I'll admit to not watching that much football over the years, but I seriously don't remember any "5 yards, automatic first down" situations. [aside] I don't think I agree with the "you touch his face mask and we'll throw a flag" either. Grab, yes. Just touch, come on. [/aside]

One of the Philly touchdowns consisted of the defensive line stopping the runner, standing him up, and pushing him back, and then finally he broke free and fell into the end zone. That was clearly a stop (Note not effect on the game as they had plenty of downs left.) When did they decide that we should wait so long for a whistle? This one was made particularly funny by the commentators in the Pats/Steelers game when they claimed on a third and short that the second effort wouldn't help, as "forward progress had stopped" before that. What's the rule here?

[wally world]

I'm pretty sure that any defensive penalty, other than dead ball things like offsides, results in a first down automatically.

I thought that call on Levens' touchdown was crap, too. There should have been a whistle. Agree, though, that it had no effect on the game.

[Wannabe Actuary]

FTR, I agree, the whistle never blew, so the play wasn't done.

I do feel that it SHOULD have been blown. I clearly recall him being stopped, pushed back a little, still held and then shoved forward by his teammate. I feel it should have been blown dead on forward progress.

[Mick Fan]

I thought Leavens was stopped as well. If he had fumbled after he was "stopped", I'm sure Eagles fans would have been upset. Gotta play to the whistle. Credit to Leavens for being persistent.

Defensive holding has always been five yards and a first down.

[CaptainDingo]

I just don't think it's fair that a dinky foul like hands to the face is an automatic 4th down. It should be 5 yards, no doubt, but definitely not automatic.

And what's with stupid automatic 1st downs anyway? Why can the offense get them, but not the defense? How fair is that? What if the offense used hands to the face- it should be 5 yards, automatic 4th down.

That would be nice!

[Drzy]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. In last week's Philly-Atlanta game, I thought a ball couldn't be fumbled forward. On the fumble to Freddie Mitchell play, how did that work? Was it not considered a fumble because it didn't hit the ground? But if that's the case, why wouldn't it be an illegal forward pass? I'm clearly missing something...

[Westley]

[abducens] The rules changed when the NFL decided that they like the Pats and hate the Rams. You can agree with me or you can be wrong. Hater.[/abducens]

[jets fan]

Originally Posted by IAm@Work.com

One of the Pats drives was helped by a "holding - 5 yards, automatic first down". When did this come in? I'll admit to not watching that much football over the years, but I seriously don't remember any "5 yards, automatic first down" situations.

This has been a rule for years. Illegal contact (bumping the receiver after 5 yards) or defensive holding will result in a 5 yard penalty and an automatic first down - this is nothing new. What is new this year, is that they are more strictly enforcing the 5-yard rule. In past years, the refs had been lax on that (and the Pats benefited a lot from that in the eyes of some observers). Due to all the complaints, the refs tightened up on that rule and the Pats are still in the Superbowl, so it doesn't seemed to have slowed them very much.

One of the Philly touchdowns consisted of the defensive line stopping the runner, standing him up, and pushing him back, and then finally he broke free and fell into the end zone. That was clearly a stop (Note not effect on the game as they had plenty of downs left.) When did they decide that we should wait so long for a whistle? This one was made particularly funny by the commentators in the Pats/Steelers game when they claimed on a third and short that the second effort wouldn't help, as "forward progress had stopped" before that. What's the rule here?

The 'rule' here is that it's left up to the ref's judgement as to when forward progress is stopped. If the ref feels the player can still get more yards, he'll let it go. I think the refs are told to not blow the whistle too soon because there have been fumbles where the other team recovers but the recovery is denied because the ref blew the whistle (and of course the recovering team debates whether progress was indeed stopped and there's nothing they can challenge because the whistle blew).

[fallout]

On that phillt touchdown, the running back was clearly helped into the endzone from the push by that big offensive lineman, #71. This used to be against the rules too.

[Spidurman]

Any defensive penalty that occurs post-snap and interferes with an offensive player's 'space' (holding, PI, etc) is an automatic first down.

The tighter enforcement - that's the umm 'Manning' rule

And for the record, I was shocked that Levens was awarded the TD, that was a bit generous even in my view.