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  #41  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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Demonstrably false!
I said good, not a crappy pastor. I think there are a lot of those out there. Sorry, but I disagree.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:51 AM
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Huh? Counselors aren’t allowed to think their patients are wrong???

That’s certainly not been my experience, nor that of my friends. I’ve totally seen and heard about counselors calling their patients out on stuff. It’s uncomfortable, but you don’t get better by burying your head in the sand.

I’m trying to think of how this could make your aunt not a coward... she should work through the guy’s obviously considerable issues that led him to abandon his kids.

Now if he refused to acknowledge that what he did was wrong and didn’t want to work through those issues, I could see dropping him on the basis that he didn’t actually want help. But not because one time he did a terrible thing that is morally wrong.
She did try to work through it with him. But when he insisted that he felt he was in the right, and had no obligation to help his kids, nor the mother of his kids, she decided she could not in good conscious be his counselor. I believe his position was that as he had never married her, he had no obligation towards her or towards her offspring.

I think he wanted help with other stuff, but she felt there was too big a moral gulf between them for her to be able to help him in good conscience.

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According to someone I know that is both a professor of and a practicing psychologist, it is a a serious breach of professional ethics for a licensed counselor to tell* their patients that they're morally wrong. He finds it to be a great weakness** in psychological counseling.

There is probably nuance to this that he didn't tell me.

*I know, tell is not the same as think.
**I also got the impression that he didn't think that should change.
I don't have any evidence, but this sounds plausible to me.

Last edited by PeppermintPatty; 11-20-2018 at 11:00 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:59 AM
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Parks and RecROOation Parks and RecROOation is offline
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*conscience
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  #44  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:59 AM
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*conscience
yes, thanks.
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  #45  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:44 PM
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I said good, not a crappy pastor. I think there are a lot of those out there. Sorry, but I disagree.
Well despite the fact that this will disappoint Marcie, I don’t really care to go into the details but I’ve been on the receiving end of some really bad advice from a pastor who was, in my opinion, very good at their non-counseling pastoral duties.

I have loads of anecdotes from friends & family members who received terrible advice from pastors that they knew & trusted, although I can’t really vouch for the non-crappiness of those pastors.
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  #46  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:51 PM
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According to someone I know that is both a professor of and a practicing psychologist, it is a a serious breach of professional ethics for a licensed counselor to tell* their patients that they're morally wrong. He finds it to be a great weakness** in psychological counseling.

There is probably nuance to this that he didn't tell me.

*I know, tell is not the same as think.
**I also got the impression that he didn't think that should change.
So a counselor isn’t supposed to tell a patient something like “infidelity is wrong; stop cheating on your spouse” or “lying to your spouse about how you’re spending money is wrong; you need to be honest”. Really?!?!
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  #47  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:56 PM
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So a counselor isn’t supposed to tell a patient something like “infidelity is wrong; stop cheating on your spouse” or “lying to your spouse about how you’re spending money is wrong; you need to be honest”. Really?!?!
I've always been under the impression that the goal of therapy is to assist a person in coming to these conclusions through self-reflection. If you don't feel that you are wrong, will that change because someone tells you that you are?
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  #48  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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I've always been under the impression that the goal of therapy is to assist a person in coming to these conclusions through self-reflection. If you don't feel that you are wrong, will that change because someone tells you that you are?
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  #49  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:25 PM
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Therapists should ask the right questions, not give the right answers.
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  #50  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:42 PM
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So a counselor isn’t supposed to tell a patient something like “infidelity is wrong; stop cheating on your spouse” or “lying to your spouse about how you’re spending money is wrong; you need to be honest”. Really?!?!
Yeah because "its wrong" is a moral assertion not advice. Advice needs to be couched in achieving the patient's goals. So a counselor can say that cheating on your spouse will likely cause the marriage to break down, but cant just say "it's wrong dont do it." Because not everything is so clear cut and moral priorities are different for different people. Like what if a patient wanted to date someone outside of their religion, some religions including a lot of christianities teach that is "wrong".
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