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  #4201  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by yoyo View Post
possible, but it appears that morbidity is pretty bad with covid (lung damage even if not fatal)
The objective of social distancing is to "flatten the curve", you get roughly the same number of infections, but with a flatter curve the healthcare system can handle them all.

So the same lungs will get damaged whether we go through this or not.

Unless we maintain social distancing for the 12 - 18 months it will take to get a vaccine.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:09 AM
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Report of Urns Stacked at Wuhan Funeral Homes Raises Questions About the Real Coronavirus Death Toll in China

(Bloomberg) — The long lines and stacks of ash urns greeting family members of the dead at funeral homes in Wuhan are spurring questions about the true scale of coronavirus casualties at the epicenter of the outbreak, renewing pressure on a Chinese government struggling to control its containment narrative.

The families of those who succumbed to the virus in the central Chinese city, where the disease first emerged in December, were allowed to pick up their cremated ashes at eight local funeral homes starting this week. As they did, photos circulated on Chinese social media of thousands of urns being ferried in.

Outside one funeral home, trucks shipped in about 2,500 urns on both Wednesday and Thursday, according to Chinese media outlet Caixin. Another picture published by Caixin showed 3,500 urns stacked on the ground inside. It’s unclear how many of the urns had been filled.

People who answered the phone at six of the eight funeral homes in Wuhan said they either did not have data on how many urns were waiting to be collected, or were not authorized to disclose the numbers. Calls were not answered at the other two.
https://time.com/5811222/wuhan-coronavirus-death-toll/
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  #4203  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:25 AM
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If funeral homes have been holding all cremation remains for the last several weeks, then they’d need many thousands of urns just for all the normal deaths. Not saying I believe China’s numbers, but not sure you can really conclude much from this.
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  #4204  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:28 AM
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I don't trust any of the numbers being reported by China or Russia.
Do you trust the US numbers?
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:32 AM
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Do you trust the US numbers?
I trust the numbers that US public health officials put out are fact based, while realizing that testing is still ramping up and many areas don’t have enough tests available.

I feel differently about Trump, but will not answer that part in this thread.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:33 AM
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Do you trust the US numbers?
I think that there are levels of trust.

I don't think the US numbers are accurate - but I think that is from a lack of testing than manipulation

I don't think the numbers from China and Russia are accurate - but that is from a lack of faith in the numbers and process
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:34 AM
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For example I do trust Fauci is telling the truth
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  #4208  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:49 AM
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In a week or two, hopefully the economy is the main thing we need to solve... outside of a vaccine.
I hope you're right, but this feels wildly optimistic. I know Trump said he hopes we'll have packed churches by Easter, but virtually all experts say that's unlikely. Businesses are planning for this thing to drag on for months, not weeks. To be honest, I'll be surprised if stay at home recommendations are lifted in NYC by June.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:51 AM
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The Imperial college report modeled 3 months as the minimum social distancing time, with 5 months as likely. Hubei lasted 2 months. The floor on this thing is 2 months. The ceiling is 18 when we get a vaccine.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:52 AM
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https://insights.som.yale.edu/insigh...orical-context

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Crashes and COVID-19 in Historical ContextWILLIAM N. GOETZMANN MARCH 23, 2020
The stock markets are reeling as fear and uncertainty about the global pandemic grow. We asked Yale SOM’s William Goetzmann, whose research includes financial history, to put the volatility into historical perspective.


Spoiler:
Do you think the large sell-off in financial markets is being driven by rational expectations, or is some other force at work?

The stock market fluctuation appears to be driven by a number of things, including grave uncertainty about the scale of the global recession and the consequences for corporate profits; the possibility of the breakdown in the financial system and the inability to finance business in the short term, even if the future profit outlook is good; and margin calls on investors that result in liquidations of securities. It is not clear that the current market is behaving irrationally, given that this is nearly an unprecedented global event.

“If we knew there was a time certain when this would be over—a light at the end of the tunnel—I think it would put a floor on asset prices and expectations.”
Are there good historical precedents to look at to try to understand the current crisis?

The 1918 influenza epidemic is a natural benchmark. Millions died. The world entered a global recession in 1920. It is difficult to disentangle the effects of the First World War from the effects of the pandemic, however. Thus, we can’t easily use that event as a model.

This year is the 300th anniversary of the earliest and biggest global stock market crash, which started in France with the Mississippi company that owned the Louisiana territory. It spread in a couple of months to Britain, and then finally to Holland. Stocks had risen by a factor of 8 or 10. Speculators had gotten rich, but then the markets failed, and prices dropped back to earth.

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During the crash of October 28 and 29, 1929, the market dropped 12%–13% on each day. In the crash of 1987, the market fell by nearly 23%, bouncing back by the end of the year. In the 2008 crash, it fell by more than 20% in a week. The crash of 1973 took longer to materialize.

Notice something: big crashes are really, really rare. There is some psychological research by Eric J. Johnson and Amos Tversky that connects news of a rare disaster with an increased belief that an unrelated rare disaster could happen. Perhaps seeing rare shocks like the news that Tom Hanks and his wife tested positive for the virus triggers a sense that unexpected bad things are more likely.

My research with Dasol Kim on crashes looks at all of the large declines over a 12-month period in the world’s stock markets. There were more than 1,000 crashes over 50% in a year. There were 8,549 annual crashes of the scale we have seen. Once the decline gets bigger, the probability of a bounce-back in the next year increases dramatically.

What do we know about investor behavior after a crash?

"The 20th century had all sorts of terrible events—pandemics, wars, and disasters—with much bigger effects on populations. The global economies dug themselves out of these much deeper holes."
Researchers Ulrike Malmendier and Stefan Nagel studied the investment behavior of people who lived through the Great Depression and those who experienced high inflation in their lifetimes. These life experiences made permanent changes, and they are associated with higher expectations of bad times and high inflation. In recent times, household investment in the stock market has declined; it is lower now than in the mid-2000s. This may be due to continued concerns about a market crash. We also know from investor surveys conducted by the International Center for Finance at Yale SOM for professor Robert Shiller that people’s expectations of a market crash are strongly influenced by the news. Negative news has a bigger impact than positive news.

While it sounds like a vaccine is at least a year away, I think news about the development of a cure or a vaccine will reduce the uncertainty about the very long term. The 1918–19 influenza reappeared a couple of times, and even in 1920 people were not clear it was over. If we knew there was a time certain when this would be over—a light at the end of the tunnel—I think it would put a floor on asset prices and expectations.

The 20th century had all sorts of terrible events—pandemics, wars, and disasters—with much bigger effects on populations. The global economies dug themselves out of these much deeper holes. I just hope that our policies can be flexible enough to try out solutions.

30216

William N. Goetzmann
Edwin J. Beinecke Professor of Finance and Management Studies & Director of the International Center for Finance

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