Navy works to keep lines open to Iran

[2pac Shakur]

ABOARD THE USS NIMITZ IN THE GULF - Even as Iran and the U.S. face off bitterly, Navy commanders in the Persian Gulf are working quietly to keep communications open with Iran's military, hoping the contact will avert an accidental stumble into armed confrontation.

Most of the talk takes place over the crackle of radios, using the standard international bridge-to-bridge communications network, Rear Adm. Terry Blake, commander of the strike group led by the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz, said aboard ship this week.

Other contacts are between Iranian pilots and air communications networks.

Conversations often begin with an Iranian voice, in accented English, announcing that Iran has detected foreign planes or ships and wants to know their purpose, said the carrier's skipper, Capt. Michael Manazir.

"Hey, vessel at such and such a latitude and longitude, this is the Iranian navy. Who are you? What's your course and speed?" Manazir said, paraphrasing a typical call from Iran.

"We say: 'Iranian navy, this is coalition warship 68. Our course is three-zero-zero at 15 knots, operating in international waters.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/...gulf_us___iran

What's there to worry about? Not like US would EVER accidentally shoot down a jumbo passenger jet, or anything like that. Right?

Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air that flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE. On Sunday July 3, 1988, the aircraft flying IR655 was shot down by the U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes between Bandar Abbas and Dubai, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 38 non-Iranians and 66 children. The Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters at the time of the shoot-down.

According to the U.S. government, the Iranian airbus was mistakenly identified as an attacking military fighter. The Iranian government, however, maintains that the Vincennes knowingly shot down a civilian aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[The Diabolical Biz Markie]

Originally Posted by 2pac Shakur

What's there to worry about? Not like US would EVER accidentally shoot down a jumbo passenger jet, or anything like that. Right?

Not one of ours, anyway.

If they shoot down one of the Iranians, we can just offset that with the buses and bar-mitzvahs being blown up in Israel and call us even (although, I think that might take several airplane loads).

The lesson here is, if you are going to support people who blow up buses and airplanes to make a political statement, it is probably a good idea to avoid buses and airplanes yourself. Just in case.

[MattTheSkywalker]

Originally Posted by The Diabolical Biz Markie

Not one of ours, anyway.

If they shoot down one of the Iranians, we can just offset that with the buses and bar-mitzvahs being blown up in Israel and call us even (although, I think that might take several airplane loads).

The lesson here is, if you are going to support people who blow up buses and airplanes to make a political statement, it is probably a good idea to avoid buses and airplanes yourself. Just in case.

A crazy statement, essentially arguing that Americans = Israelis. hell no I don't want anything to do with those people anymore than I do with Muslim nutjobs. I don't give a sh!t about Israel any more than I care about Luxembourg one way or the other, but I sure as hell don't shed a tear over their foreign policy problems.

Are you implying that

a/ Israelis have the same status as Americans now when it comes to civilian deaths and American reprisals?

b/Americans have the same responsibility for everything Israel does as well?

Better yet you argue that "they do it, so we can too". We wouldn't let children get away with this, but we let our elected leaders get away with it...and actually parrot it ourselves.

Amazing!

[The Diabolical Biz Markie]

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

A crazy statement, essentially arguing that Americans = Israelis. hell no I don't want anything to do with those people anymore than I do with Muslim nutjobs. I don't give a sh!t about Israel any more than I care about Luxembourg one way or the other, but I sure as hell don't shed a tear over their foreign policy problems.

Are you implying that

a/ Israelis have the same status as Americans now when it comes to civilian deaths and American reprisals?

b/Americans have the same responsibility for everything Israel does as well?

Better yet you argue that "they do it, so we can too". We wouldn't let children get away with this, but we let our elected leaders get away with it...and actually parrot it ourselves.

Amazing!

First, stop hyperventilating. Breathe into a bag for a little while, and then...

Second...there are these things called allies. Allies frequently engage in things called treaties, which express in written terms the understandings that sometimes exist between allies whereby an attack on one is viewed as attack on all.

Israel is an ally. An attack on them is basically an attack on the US, and vice versa...at least as far as our common enemy is concerned. And, the Iranians view us as basically the same, anyway.

That is not the same as arguing "Israel = US".

[MattTheSkywalker]

Originally Posted by The Diabolical Biz Markie

First, stop hyperventilating. Breathe into a bag for a little while, and then...

Second...there are these things called allies. Allies frequently engage in things called treaties, which express in written terms the understandings that sometimes exist between allies whereby an attack on one is viewed as attack on all.

Can you please describe some of the treaties we have with Israel that articulate the position in bold?

Originally Posted by TDBM

Israel is an ally. An attack on them is basically an attack on the US, and vice versa...at least as far as our common enemy is concerned. And, the Iranians view us as basically the same, anyway.

Can you offer some statements to further support the above?

Originally Posted by TDBM

An attack on them is basically an attack on the US

That is not the same as arguing "Israel = US".

Can you articulate the difference between the 2 statements?

[2pac Shakur]

Originally Posted by The Diabolical Biz Markie

Not one of ours, anyway.

If they shoot down one of the Iranians, we can just offset that with the buses and bar-mitzvahs being blown up in Israel and call us even (although, I think that might take several airplane loads).

The lesson here is, if you are going to support people who blow up buses and airplanes to make a political statement, it is probably a good idea to avoid buses and airplanes yourself. Just in case.

You mean if we shoot down ANOTHER one of the Iranians.
What support has Iran given to terrorism?

[PK]

Originally Posted by 2pac Shakur

Conversations often begin with an Iranian voice, in accented English, announcing that Iran has detected foreign planes or ships and wants to know their purpose, said the carrier's skipper, Capt. Michael Manazir.

"Hey, vessel at such and such a latitude and longitude, this is the Iranian navy. Who are you? What's your course and speed?" Manazir said, paraphrasing a typical call from Iran.

"We say: 'Iranian navy, this is coalition warship 68. Our course is three-zero-zero at 15 knots, operating in international waters.'"

We get these recorded converations between navies all the time:

This is the transcript of the ACTUAL radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland:

Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees the North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH, I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

[krank]

Originally Posted by The Diabolical Biz Markie

Not one of ours, anyway.

If they shoot down one of the Iranians, we can just offset that with the buses and bar-mitzvahs being blown up in Israel and call us even (although, I think that might take several airplane loads).

The lesson here is, if you are going to support people who blow up buses and airplanes to make a political statement, it is probably a good idea to avoid buses and airplanes yourself. Just in case.