Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > General Actuarial
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


General Actuarial Non-Specific Actuarial Topics - Before posting a thread, please browse over our other sections to see if there is a better fit, such as Careers - Employment, Actuarial Science Universities Forum or any of our other 100+ forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-03-2011, 01:53 PM
MountainHawk's Avatar
MountainHawk MountainHawk is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Salem, MA
Studying for Nothing!!!!
College: Lehigh University Alum
Favorite beer: Yuengling
Posts: 64,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWSituation View Post
A question I still have unanswered is - what happens to someone when they attest that they have not met the standard?
They are marked as non-compliant and must inform all users of their actuarial work product of their non-compliance, or risk "disciplinary action" by the SOA/CAS.

Doing work in the US while non-compliant is also a violation of the code of conduct since you have to meet the qualification standards, so even notification of users isn't enough in the US, though it could be in Asia or Africa.
__________________

Play in the AO Prediction Game now!



1
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:47 PM
silverfox's Avatar
silverfox silverfox is offline
Member
CAS SOA COPA
 
Join Date: May 2005
Favorite beer: Westmalle Tripel
Posts: 14,832
Default

How many hours can studying towards the fellowship exams count towards the total? If there are sections related to professionalism, can those count towards the professionalism hours?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:48 PM
Kenny's Avatar
Kenny Kenny is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,119
Default

For AAA, as many as you want, but those would not count as organized.
__________________
I am a scientist. I am sorry to disappoint you but I have never seen an elf or a troll. But who am I to exclude their existence? - Arni Bjoernsson
You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil. ... Dumb students are educated stupid. - timecube.com
Usually while I'm reading, I'm actually thinking about...midgets riding toy horses - Roto


Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM
MountainHawk's Avatar
MountainHawk MountainHawk is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Salem, MA
Studying for Nothing!!!!
College: Lehigh University Alum
Favorite beer: Yuengling
Posts: 64,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
How many hours can studying towards the fellowship exams count towards the total? If there are sections related to professionalism, can those count towards the professionalism hours?
The AAA doesn't seem to cap study hours, so I'm going with 'all of them', but it is not organized.

The CAS says 15 structured hours per exam sitting where you get a 1 or better.

The SOA gives 5-15 hours, depending on the exam per exam sitting where you get a 1 or better. They also give 7.5 structured hours for the modules.


If there are professionalism topics on the exam, I believe it can be counted for AAA purposes. It does not look like the SOA and CAS allow that, as they specify the credit earned are job-related.
__________________

Play in the AO Prediction Game now!



1
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-03-2011, 04:17 PM
Arthur Kade's Avatar
Arthur Kade Arthur Kade is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Studying for my SAG card
Favorite beer: whatever other folks are buying
Posts: 6,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
There are actuaries who still think the AAA Qualification standards are for PSAO's, even though there is no longer any such thing.
I just had to educate one of our most senior actuaries on precisely this point.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-03-2011, 04:26 PM
MountainHawk's Avatar
MountainHawk MountainHawk is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Salem, MA
Studying for Nothing!!!!
College: Lehigh University Alum
Favorite beer: Yuengling
Posts: 64,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Kade View Post
I just had to educate one of our most senior actuaries on precisely this point.
Was it because he just wasn't paying attention, or just refuses to believe the change, or what?
__________________

Play in the AO Prediction Game now!



1
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:12 PM
WWSituation's Avatar
WWSituation WWSituation is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: philadelphia, pa
Favorite beer: Parabola
Posts: 2,836
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
They are marked as non-compliant and must inform all users of their actuarial work product of their non-compliance, or risk "disciplinary action" by the SOA/CAS.
This partially answers the question, except for the definition of actuarial work product. I don't see myself ever needing to disclose anything as a result of my non-compliance.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffer View Post
We, the actuarial profession, did several things badly.

1. Pandering - we marketed ourselves as finding clever ways to give the public pension sponsors something for nothing
2. Ignored consequences - we found clever ways to allow politicians to ignore the true costs of benefit increases, like negative amortization of losses
3. Low standards of measurement - GASB had the most simple-minded of standards, and is now only going half-way to raise the standard.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:13 PM
silverfox's Avatar
silverfox silverfox is offline
Member
CAS SOA COPA
 
Join Date: May 2005
Favorite beer: Westmalle Tripel
Posts: 14,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
If there are professionalism topics on the exam, I believe it can be counted for AAA purposes. It does not look like the SOA and CAS allow that, as they specify the credit earned are job-related.
Why wouldn't you consider studying as job-related?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:14 PM
MountainHawk's Avatar
MountainHawk MountainHawk is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Salem, MA
Studying for Nothing!!!!
College: Lehigh University Alum
Favorite beer: Yuengling
Posts: 64,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWSituation View Post
This partially answers the question, except for the definition of actuarial work product. I don't see myself ever needing to disclose anything as a result of my non-compliance.
Actuarial work product is any form of communication of an analysis that would normally be done by an actuary. CEO/CFO/finance/market/sales/underwriting done by an actuary is not actuarial work product.
__________________

Play in the AO Prediction Game now!



1
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:14 PM
MountainHawk's Avatar
MountainHawk MountainHawk is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Salem, MA
Studying for Nothing!!!!
College: Lehigh University Alum
Favorite beer: Yuengling
Posts: 64,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
Why wouldn't you consider studying as job-related?
I meant it can't be uses as professionalism credit, sorry if that was unclear.
__________________

Play in the AO Prediction Game now!



1
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.35327 seconds with 9 queries