Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Upload your resume securely at https://www.dwsimpson.com
to be contacted when new jobs meet your skills and objectives.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #101  
Old 04-18-2006, 04:04 PM
reemaskain reemaskain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30
Smile

don't be socially awkward
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 04-19-2006, 07:20 AM
zeus1233 zeus1233 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissoxx
The thing that annoys me most about dealing with HR is differences in opinion/understanding of the work place between them and the actual hiring managers.

Maybe there are some (perhaps inexperienced or at the risk of sounding gender biased female) managers whose style consist of trying to be everyone's friend in the workplace whose thinking would more closely match typical HR personnel, but it seems like in general there is a great difference in how HR and other departments view the workplace.

The biggest example is when a portion of a specific building of a place I came for an interview (and prescreening before that) was dedicated to HR. Everyone who came within 5 feet of me said hello. I swear there were flowers and teddy bears (Be a good neighbear) everywhere.

During the interview I was asked several questions such as give an example of a situation where you acted as a mediator etc. Having not read the advice in this thread about how to best deal with HR, I made the mistake of trying to find a happy medium... IE give an answer that would keep the HR manager from throwing out my resume, but which a real office manager could respect. Little did I know there is no happy medium.

I think my answer to the mediation question was that I would try to get both sides to understand the requirements, ask for suggestions about how to meet the requirements and still satisfy what each person wanted, and explain that in the absence of any alternatives we would have to do what we need to in order to best meet our requirements.

She was pretty much removed from the interview (in a bad way) until I asked her about the work enviornment and commented on how friendly the personnel was and how I had been greeted 4 times in the 5 feet between her office and the door. At which point she laughed giddily and made a deliberate hmm as if to communicate reconsideration.

Every actual manager I have come into contact with respects straightforwardness (respectful straightforwardness) and honesty. HR personnel seem to respect politeness at all costs. Besides all the other related issues, dealing with HR is like trying to sell a Refridgerator to a damned soul with an Eskimo as a middleman.

Is HR making the hiring decision? Probably not. So why try to satisfy them at this stage in the game? Ask a couple of nice questions to them, but always answer questions in a manner that suits the people who will be hiring you--your future boss. Suppose a manager says I want this person in my division; the HR person is probably not going to overrule him or her since it's the actuary's subordinate and not their own. If HR is interfering heavily at that stage in the game, then you probably don't want to work there anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 04-19-2006, 04:02 PM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 26,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1233
Is HR making the hiring decision? Probably not.
HR makes "don't hire" decisions, which you have to get past to have a chance at a hiring decision.
__________________
"...there are two different types of Christianity. One is a movement of people who want to live and be like Jesus. The other (and far more common, far more powerful) is a civil and political religion that is simply named Christianity. The civil political religion named Christianity is addicted to both political power and violence, and thus finds the message of Jesus offensive." https://www.patheos.com/blogs/former...it-looks-like/
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 04-19-2006, 11:28 PM
zeus1233 zeus1233 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible Hulctuary
HR makes "don't hire" decisions, which you have to get past to have a chance at a hiring decision.
True, but most of their "don't hire" decisions have little to do with the interview--don't meet the qualifications for the position, failed background check, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 04-20-2006, 08:59 PM
renaissoxx renaissoxx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atl GA
Posts: 159
Default

It did in that case, which is exactly what I was complaining about. What happened is I did try and gear my answers to what would make sense about what the final manager would respect.

The result is the HR rep failed to forward my information to the correct manager because she didn't like what I had to say, and I didn't give crazy answers either. They just might not have been answers that someone who works in an office with flowers and teddy bears everywhere would want to hear.

I think a good example is about disagreeing. True if you disagree too much your viewed as a troublemaker and maybe there is some validity to the claim that you at least reduce efficiency.

But since the whole point or HR is to determine personality traits and there are no other goals, they might think disagreement is always wrong since your failing to disagree is not going to result in the company losing money and it might make someone unhappy. But of course thats not the case in the real areas of the company.

This might manifest itself less as HR reps directly saying something like it is wrong to disagree (consiously they might never try to make such an argument) and more as HR reps blacklisting anyone who doesn't go along with everything they say or voicing differing opinions because their intuition tells them they are justified in doing so. Whereas a real manager might respect the access to information that is different from what he already knows.

It seems to me in many regards the concept of HR is rediculous.

Zeus I think your right about that being the way it is SUPPOSED to be in most companies, but I think
A) Some companies might give HR much more say about valuing the answers than others
B) Some companies might have a policy that says something like "If the answers are rediculous then don't bother forwarding" but then the HR reps run with that and just don't forward any ones information they didn't like because the persons eye twitched and they hate that or are from new york and they don't like yanks etc.

In the case I was referring to I thought about just calling the hiring manager directly and asking him for advice on how to improve my interviewing, in which case he would probably mention he never got my information and ask for it from the HR rep. I haven't yet, I don't have his information so I might just call and get his number.
__________________
True intelligence does not give the right to dictate the truth, it gives the ability to discover it.

Last edited by renaissoxx; 04-20-2006 at 09:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:18 PM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 26,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1233
True, but most of their "don't hire" decisions have little to do with the interview--don't meet the qualifications for the position, failed background check, etc.
At places where you first interview with HR before the hiring manager sees you, if HR deems that you failed their interview that's the end of it for you.
__________________
"...there are two different types of Christianity. One is a movement of people who want to live and be like Jesus. The other (and far more common, far more powerful) is a civil and political religion that is simply named Christianity. The civil political religion named Christianity is addicted to both political power and violence, and thus finds the message of Jesus offensive." https://www.patheos.com/blogs/former...it-looks-like/
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:23 PM
TRINIDON2K's Avatar
TRINIDON2K TRINIDON2K is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New Mexico
Favorite beer: Grizzly
Posts: 1,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1233
True, but most of their "don't hire" decisions have little to do with the interview--don't meet the qualifications for the position, failed background check, etc.
probably better off that way...why wait for a second interview to get rejected?...no sense in getting excited for no reason
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:23 PM
silverfox's Avatar
silverfox silverfox is offline
Member
CAS SOA COPA
 
Join Date: May 2005
Favorite beer: Westmalle Tripel
Posts: 14,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1233
True, but most of their "don't hire" decisions have little to do with the interview--don't meet the qualifications for the position, failed background check, etc.
Don't meet the qualifications is just a general response they give you if you fail the interview.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:26 PM
TRINIDON2K's Avatar
TRINIDON2K TRINIDON2K is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New Mexico
Favorite beer: Grizzly
Posts: 1,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Don't meet the qualifications is just a general response they give you if you fail the interview.
I cant believe he fell for it
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:26 PM
silverfox's Avatar
silverfox silverfox is offline
Member
CAS SOA COPA
 
Join Date: May 2005
Favorite beer: Westmalle Tripel
Posts: 14,863
Default

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.24733 seconds with 9 queries