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  #41  
Old 06-29-2005, 01:05 PM
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Actuarius Actuarius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salzmann
I agree, but this manager is not going to be a good future reference, anyway. You don't want to do anything extremely public, like telling people at your new job what her faults were- that would backfire. But this is a relatively private setting. Definitely a matter of judgment- is her boss someone you might want to stay on good terms with? As I said- FWIW. Fun to think about, anyway.
They might give you the perfect opportunity by saying something like, "Do you know why you were called in here today?" It would be totally reasonable to say, "I've been asking for a performance review for a few weeks now, so I was hoping that's what this was about."
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily
That's not true. It often happens the way he described it. They stop giving you new work and give you time to finish up old work before they fire you. Sometimes they're even smart enough to have you train the new guy before they fire you. Why on Earth would they have to fire you the very same day they decided to fire you?
Emily is right about they don't have to actually fire you at the same time that they decide to fire you.

However, if they were going to fire you on Friday and you'd asked for Friday off, they'd probably just reschedule the meeting for Thursday and fire you Thursday instead. I think that it is far more likely that, as everyone is saying, this is a "get your act together or else" meeting. If so, ask what the timeframe is for a perceived "improvement". Get them to be as specific as possible. (i.e. we want to see you fix problem X by the end of third quarter) You can then plan your escape accordingly. Look for jobs and if you haven't found anything by the end of August, turn in your two weeks notice on September 1. You've collected a paycheck all summer this way, and you're not being fired. If you can come up with a "personal reason" why you had to leave the job in the meantime (you really wanted to move to a different city, for example) then most employers won't question why you quit even with no alternate job lined up.

You can also use the summer to beef up your savings account in preparation for a potential period of unemployment. And if you find another job over the summer, you're golden! Get in touch with a recruiter now.
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:19 PM
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That you stumbled upon the meeting inadvertantly is not a good sign. My gut feel here is that you are going to be terminated. With a complete lack of paper trail, which would make many HR departments squirm.

If this was about an interim performance review or putting you on probation, I suspect you would not be meeting with both your boss and the grandboss, as well as not knowing about the meeting when it was scheduled.

If it is a termination meeting, about the only thing you can do is decide what sort of exit you want to make. Yes, going with dripping sarcasm or over-the-top bravado makes a nice fantasy. I recommend quiet dignity. Which does not mean you cannot ask questions. You could absolutely bring up the lack of reviews which you requested and which company policy stated should have been done. And at an exit interview (if one is given), I would be quite firm in these statements. They could make a nice negotiating point for (higher) severance.

If it turns out not to be a termination meeting, then I strongly urge you to drop any attitude that this is their problem and not yours. At this point, you will have a choice between leaving and learning. Start with the basic assumption that they are correct and your performance is not where it should be. Try to understand their concerns and be willing to work on identified problem areas. Unlike what the anecdotal evidence would tell you, many employees go onto a probational period before becoming valuable employees who were able to correct past problems.

Either way, good luck!
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:23 PM
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Negotiating for severence? Now who's fantasizing?
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily
Negotiating for severence? Now who's fantasizing?
I was wondering about that too. This never would have occurred to me. Does it actually happen?
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:32 PM
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This might have been mentioned, but let's not forget the irony here, if he is indeed being fired. His boss wouldn't let him have the day off because that was the day he was going to fire him. If it were me I'd say "geez, this is why I couldn't have the day off? You couldn't have done this yesterday? Jerk!"

On the bright side, this will make a great story someday. You can bring it up in the future every time you request a day off and your boss says no.
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  #47  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by twig93
I was wondering about that too. This never would have occurred to me. Does it actually happen?
I saw it in American Beauty.
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  #48  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by twig93
I was wondering about that too. This never would have occurred to me. Does it actually happen?

Yeah, couldn't that only happen if you were being laid off and not fired?
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2005, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by twig93
I was wondering about that too. This never would have occurred to me. Does it actually happen?
If they don't have the paper trail their HR department would like them to have, and they think you will sue if you don't get this, it could happen. (Just making this up, of course).

I think it would be pretty easy to say "You are firing me with no warning an no performance reviews? Can I have some severance to make the transition easier?" No overt lawsuit threat needed.
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  #50  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SadStudent
As for knowing about the meeting beforehand, I don't know that I was necessarily going to be told. I requested Friday off (last minute visit from friends), but my boss shot it down and this was the reason given to me.
Honestly, there may be legitimate reasons for all of this that have nothing to do with your performance or even your review. For example, you may be experiencing a temporary workflow interruption because you will be involved in a huge project that will be discussed...on Friday. And, your boss may have declined your vacation request because it was just too difficult to get on her boss' schedule. I'll agree, though, that this feels more like "extreme optimism", based on what you've described, and less like reality. Anyway, a better strategy is to always prepare for the worst.

Speaking of preparation, why wait? I would call my boss tomorrow morning and ask her straight out: "What is going to be discussed at the meeting tomorrow?" Treat this like you're preparing for a client meeting. If she asks you why you need to know, or suggests that you don't need to know, I would counter with: "I need to know how to prepare for and/or what to bring to the meeting". Keep asking questions. The goal here is to keep her focused on the fact that you think this is a routine meeting and you don't think anything is wrong. Here is a brief list of meeting preparation questions that we all know and love:
  1. What time is the meeting?
  2. How long will the meeting last?
  3. Where will the meeting be held?
  4. How many people will be attending the meeting, other than you, me, and uber-boss?
  5. Who will be leading the meeting?
  6. Are there handouts? Who is putting the presentation together?
  7. Is this a closed or open meeting? Should I invite an assistant to take notes?
  8. Do we need any technical support - video projectors, call-in numbers, etc.?
  9. What will you be bringing to the meeting?
See? There's a lot you don't know. The longer she talks, the more likely she'll say something she shouldn't. Of course, you've already seen this in action, right? For god sakes, you found out about this meeting when you asked her a question about vacation! What do you have to lose?

Which is better for you: knowing or not knowing? Her answers to some of these questions may help clarify your situation.

Keep us posted and good luck.
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Last edited by The Matrix; 06-29-2005 at 11:55 PM..
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