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  #1  
Old 08-03-2016, 11:40 AM
Jeremy Gold Jeremy Gold is offline
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Default AAA and SOA censor research and disband voice of pension finance

https://twitter.com/pensionsnews/sta...42108701900800

https://twitter.com/e_bartholomew/st...17584777338881

Quote:
Originally Posted by P&I
The American Academy of Actuaries and the Society of Actuaries Monday abruptly disbanded its longtime joint Pension Finance Task Force, objecting to a task force paper challenging the standard actuarial practice of valuing public pension plan liabilities.

“This paper (is) being censored by the AAA” and SOA, said Edward Bartholomew, who was a member of the former task force, in an interview. “They didn’t want it to get out.”

Others who were members of the task force also said in interviews the two actuarial groups are trying to suppress publication of the paper.

A joint memorandum dated Monday announced the disbanding of the task force to its members.

The memo was jointly written by Thomas F. Wildsmith IV, president of the Washington-based academy and president and senior manager of public policy at Aetna Inc., Washington, and Craig W. Reynolds, president of the Schaumburg, Ill.-based society and principal and consulting actuary at Milliman Inc., Seattle.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2016, 11:59 AM
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Mary Pat Campbell
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So we can get the actuaries to do this:
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=311490

which is not particularly actuarial,

but block a paper written about actual actuarial concerns

way to go.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
So we can get the actuaries to do this:
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=311490

which is not particularly actuarial,

but block a paper written about actual actuarial concerns

way to go.
How are we gonna get the politicians to listen to us about bathroom bills if we're antagonizing them over their pension policies?
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2016, 12:02 PM
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Following Ed Bartholomew's tweet with a link to a dropbox doc:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...uly%202016.pdf

I will point out this bit:

Quote:
As a work product of the joint PFTF, the paper, Financial Economics Principles Applied to Public Pension Plans, was – like the predecessor paper 10 years ago – intended to be published by the Academy and the SOA as a jointly owned and copyrighted paper. It appears this is no longer feasible, and neither the SOA nor the Academy will be publishing the paper or endorsing it. Because the paper was the work of the joint Task Force, we do not think it would be appropriate for members of the Task Force, as individuals, to take the existing paper and simply publish it somewhere else. We recognize that some of the individuals who have been on the PFTF have their own personal ideas and views on these topics, and the Academy and the SOA encourage those individuals to express those ideas in other forums. But they cannot use the existing paper, with the particular expressions of ideas as developed by the Task Force, as the vehicle to do so.
Even if they were the authors of the paper, as individuals.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:04 PM
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From the P&I story:
http://www.pionline.com/article/2016...an-liabilities

Quote:
Current public plan practice uses the long-term investment return of assets to value liabilities. The paper “challenged” that practice, said Mr. Bartholomew, a Washington-based independent pension consultant and former chief financial officer of the Inter American Development Bank, Washington, who helped oversee its more than $3 billion defined benefit pension plan.

“The issue came to a head with our attempt to get the paper published,” Mr. Bartholomew said.

When the academy and SOA leadership made their objections to the paper known, the authors offered to remove the task force label and have the society publish the paper under co-authors’ names only, while having side-by-side critiques written by actuaries opposed to its conclusions, members of the former task force said. But the academy and society refused to agree, the members said.

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Old 08-03-2016, 12:06 PM
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I cannot say I'm surprised, and I will use the word "pathetic" again.

Even though that word supposedly triggers people to go seek their safe spaces.

Not even a point-counterpoint?!

Pathetic.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I cannot say I'm surprised, and I will use the word "pathetic" again.

Even though that word supposedly triggers people to go seek their safe spaces.

Not even a point-counterpoint?!

Pathetic.
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I cannot say I'm surprised, and I will use the word "pathetic" again.

Even though that word supposedly triggers people to go seek their safe spaces.

Not even a point-counterpoint?!

Pathetic.
It's probably just me (as it usually is!), but I don't see how conflating the NC discrimination issue with the pension issue advances the argument that the actuarial profession is in decline or that its leaders are "pathetic". That word is simply a label intended to express one's displeasure with an opinion one disagrees with, at least in this context, in my opinion.

The dictionary defines "pathetic" as "arousing pity, especially through vulnerability or sadness." In a sentence, we might say: "she looked so pathetic that I bent down to comfort her". In this context, in my opinion, the word is intended to arouse more anger than pity.

The comments in this thread, most of which are negative, seem more of a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that has not been fully vetted, at least not that I am aware of. In my opinion, we should wait until we hear more details from Reynolds and Wildsmith about their reasoning in making the decision they did.

From my seat in the Peanut Gallery, in the Court of Grumpy Old Actuaries, we are already hearing shouts of "Lock them up!"
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:02 PM
DiscreteAndDiscreet DiscreteAndDiscreet is offline
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What's pathetic is that the actuarial profession generally fails to understand its own ideas.

I've seen past work in the debate that this paper figures into. Generally, both sides used more complicated explanations of their positions than were necessary and generally presented arguments against their own misunderstandings of the other side's positions.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:12 AM
Helen Sass Helen Sass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscreteAndDiscreet View Post
What's pathetic is that the actuarial profession generally fails to understand its own ideas.

I've seen past work in the debate that this paper figures into. Generally, both sides used more complicated explanations of their positions than were necessary and generally presented arguments against their own misunderstandings of the other side's positions.



That's kinda our thing.
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