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Old 04-16-2019, 09:55 AM
mathmajor mathmajor is offline
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Any suggestions on these? Very easily consumable format for me. I'm listening to Annie Duke's book now and it's REALLY GOOD (for what little I know). Like, I went from complete newb to kinda know what I'm doing ish.

Still not confident enough to go play a 1/2 game but I probably should be.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:19 PM
Dr T Non-Fan Dr T Non-Fan is offline
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I normally use my eyes when reading.

Are you trying to learn, or do you just want to know how the best got to be the best? Because they mostly can't teach you anything, because they often have what cannot be taught (it's intuition, mainly).

For a 1/2 game, you don't need a lot of expertise. Know your ABCs, know your position, try to know your opponents, know your stack and their stacks, know the odds. Bring what you can comfortably lose.

Go to the Wisconsin one, not the Indiana one. That's what some guys at my table told me the other day (one was moving to Chicago, another happened to be from Chicago).
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:20 PM
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I'm currently reading "Your Worst Poker Enemy" by some psychologist.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:39 PM
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Any suggestions on these? Very easily consumable format for me. I'm listening to Annie Duke's book now and it's REALLY GOOD (for what little I know). Like, I went from complete newb to kinda know what I'm doing ish.

Still not confident enough to go play a 1/2 game but I probably should be.
In this thread a few books were recommended to me. Doesn't look like they're available on audio, though.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:11 PM
mathmajor mathmajor is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
I normally use my eyes when reading.

Are you trying to learn, or do you just want to know how the best got to be the best? Because they mostly can't teach you anything, because they often have what cannot be taught (it's intuition, mainly).

For a 1/2 game, you don't need a lot of expertise. Know your ABCs, know your position, try to know your opponents, know your stack and their stacks, know the odds. Bring what you can comfortably lose.

Go to the Wisconsin one, not the Indiana one. That's what some guys at my table told me the other day (one was moving to Chicago, another happened to be from Chicago).
I mean. I started from scratch and read some book about math and odds and was like 'nope' - there's no way people sit there and crunch detailed decision tree style EVs to any precision.

I've learned a lot so far though with Annie's, digging through the thought process. Intuition has to develop over time, no? At least in Bridge, I was flying blind with addages and heuristics until I wasn't.

It's the first exposure to what I believe might be termed 'second level thinking' and I'm sure the rabbit hole goes much farther down. Nothing earth-shattering but confirming some intuition I had and correcting others.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:54 PM
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Regarding the math stuff: knowing how to calculate outs (and the probability of hitting those on the flop/turn) and understanding pot odds are ESSENTIAL to playing correctly, so do not gloss those over. They're simple and for a math-brained person, easily understandable in probably 10 minutes time.

The deeper level math of combinatorics and figuring out opponents' ranges is also important if you want to get "really good". Phil Gordon's Little Gold Book is available for free and has a good 50 page or so primer. I'm sure you would pick it up quickly also, and I recommend it as a base. Will you use this stuff often? Probably not right away. But it will help you start understanding some of the meta-game that you mention at the end there.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:32 PM
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Yeah. Starting with the math was bad. I didn't have a good appreciation for implied odds, relative stack size, effectiveness of bets of different ranges, taking your opponent's range into account, flop perception and texture, etc.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:59 PM
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Yeah. Starting with the math was bad. I didn't have a good appreciation for implied odds, relative stack size, effectiveness of bets of different ranges, taking your opponent's range into account, flop perception and texture, etc.
At $1/$2, no one else is doing that. They're just trying to beat the rake.
Sounds like Bill Chen's book. if you're playing against a robot, sure. But at the $1/$2 table there are few if any robots.

First example:
A player ahead of you raised 5xBB. What do you do?
1. Look at your position.
2. Look at your stack.
3. Look at the raiser, and remember what you know about him (using as neutral gender). And any players who called.
4. Look at the players behind you, and remember what you know about them. Are they the type to reraise to 15xBB? 'cause that's what the hand might cost you to play if you just call. Some players see a raise and two callers and consider it dead money.
5. Look at your cards. 80% of the time you're folding. What are you raising with, and how much? What are you calling with?

Notice how far down the process is looking at your cards.

Simple math:
On the flop, percentage of catching ≈ number of outs times 4
On the turn, percentage of catching ≈ number of outs times 2

And that is just straight odds. Implied odds are impossible to know, but are a way to rationalize a poor call. Just note that implied odds are realized less often for flushes than straights.

Don't need to know much more than that, unless you want to know runner-runner odds.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:12 PM
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Intuition has to develop over time, no?
Accumulation of poker hands experienced is a huge factor in how good you become, imo.
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I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:17 PM
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1. He's before me so is on a tighter range presumably
2a. More likely to play a wider set of hands if risk of ruin is impending.
2b. A deeper mutual stack relative to BB increases implied odds on 'sleeper' hands (like a pair made into a set or a straight) and like you said, flushes in multiway are dangerous, likely to be bullied out before turn or beaten by a higher flush
3. Assume 1/2 players are looser and play more prospective hands. Would take larger bets to get folds on big hands (therefore not that worthwhile)
4. 5xBB is pretty big for a SB/BB to call for value. Those 2.5x-3x BB bets not so much but the blinds will probably play with hands as big as mine and not gamble on prospective stuff. Seems like fold or reraise but little in between would be optimal.
5. Same logic, I'll go over the top with something big but even if I think I can bust the guy on a draw the risk of a reraise down the line would entice me to fold much else. Being on button I might call to see a flop on something like a suited connector (hoping for a well priced cont bet or a free card on a made slowplay).

Am I sorta getting it?
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