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View Poll Results: Will self driving autos kill car insurance?
Of course 38 16.45%
Maybe but not for a long time 167 72.29%
I'm a luddite... 26 11.26%
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  #1711  
Old 09-22-2017, 02:25 PM
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The Ethics Committee has opened its mouth . . .

https://theconversation.com/at-last-...ess-cars-83227

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Humans before animals and property. No discrimination as to who should survive. Safeguards against malicious hacking.

These are just some of the world-first ethical rules being implemented in Germany regarding how autonomous vehicles are to be programmed.

...

The report notes the technological advances being made to increase automation in cars to make them safer and reduce accidents, but it adds:
Nevertheless, at the level of what is technologically possible today [Ö] it will not be possible to prevent accidents completely. This makes it essential that decisions be taken when programming the software of conditionally and highly automated driving systems.
The report lists 20 guidelines for the motor industry to consider in the development of any automated driving systems. The minister says that cabinet has adopted the guidelines, making it the first government in the world to do so.

...

The moral foundation of the report is simple Ė since self-driving vehicles will cause fewer human deaths and injuries, there is a moral imperative to use such systems since governments have a duty of care for their citizens.

So what are some of the situations the report considers?

If an accident cannot be avoided, the report say human safety must take precedence over animals and property. The software must try to avoid a collision altogether, but if thatís not possible, it should take the action that does least harm to people.

The report also recognises that some decisions could be too morally ambiguous for the software to resolve.

In these cases, the ultimate decision and responsibility, at least for now, must be with the human sitting in the driverís seat, as control is swiftly transferred to them. If they fail to act, the vehicle simply tries to stop. In the near future, as capability improves, vehicles might well become fully autonomous.


...

If a collision is unavoidable, the report say systems must aim for harm minimisation. There must be no discrimination on the basis of age, gender, race, physical attributes or anything else of any potential accident victim.

...

The guidelines will be reviewed after two years of use. Doubtless there will be fine tuning in the light of experience, in this the first of many reviews in the years and decades to come.
IMO, the bottom line is that they really haven't cleared anything up about key issues. At least, it is not clear whether you give greater weight to minimizing injuries to a large group of humans over a fatal injury to an individual (or smaller group).
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  #1712  
Old 09-22-2017, 05:01 PM
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they should let the owner of the vehicle decide on whether the software acts to protect the driver or protect others

part of the initial setup when they purchase

problem solved
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  #1713  
Old 09-23-2017, 03:01 PM
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bah, self-driving cars are old news

self-flying cars are where it's at

https://medium.com/udacity/just-laun...s-d82d531937b8

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[Just Launched] Two new Nanodegree programs!

....
And here is Sebastian [Thrun, founder of Udacity] on the subject of flying cars:

“There’s no reason to be stuck in traffic anymore when we can fly. With a flying vehicle, I would make it from Palo Alto to San Francisco in 10 minutes and pay 50 cents in electricity costs. People say it’s a decade away, it’s two years away honestly. There’s no technical reason it can’t be done, it’s much more a societal reason.”

.....
The Flying Car Nanodegree Program
As mentioned above, Nicholas Roy is one of the experts helping to build this pioneering program. Nick is the Bisplinghoff Professor in the Department of Aeronautics & Astronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and a member of the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL) at MIT. Along with Sebastian, he is joined by Raff D’Andrea (co-founder of Kiva Systems), and Angela Schoellig (professor in the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies) to round out our team of curriculum experts. Here is Nick on his colleagues, and the program, from his blog post:
“Sebastian’s contributions to autonomy are of course well-known, and his latest work with Kitty Hawk offers an especially compelling integration of cutting-edge technologies. Raff for his part brings to the table a combination of technical virtuosity and artistic sensibility that is both rare and remarkable in this field. Angela’s recent applications of motion planning, control, and learning algorithms to self-driving vehicles represent exciting new advancements in performance, safety and autonomy. I am tremendously excited to work with these amazing colleagues to help students around the world engage with the deep and technical questions in the domain of safe and reliable autonomous flight.”
A TechCrunch article today noted the following about the new Flying Car Nanodegree program:
“This (program) should produce Nanodegree holders with skill sets that can scale to match the opportunity — from practical applications today in areas like commercial drone asset monitoring, to a future where short-range autonomous cargo and even passenger transportation is a viable real world tech.”
nanodegree page:
https://www.udacity.com/flying-car

https://blog.udacity.com/2017/09/bui...portation.html

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Autonomous Flight Technology and Social Good
The potential applications of autonomous flight technology are incredible, and we’re already seeing powerful examples of this today. As recently written about in Wired, drones are helping in Houston in the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey. They’re enabling safety assessments for residents wondering when they can return home. They’re gathering data about damage to roads, bridges, and water treatment plants. They’re helping to identify flooding and drainage problems. As reported by NPR, telecom companies such as AT&T and Verizon are using drones to help repair emergency call centers and cellular sites. Fortune highlighted how Allstate and Farmers Insurance are deploying their own drones to process damage claims faster, and get payments to victims sooner. Already drones are beginning their work in Florida, leading NBC news to state that Hurricanes Show Why Drones Are the Future of Disaster Relief.
But even these vehicles need a lot of human effort to pilot them. Autonomous flight technology can make a powerful and positive difference in our world. A recent article entitled 9 Brilliant Ways Drones Can Help Tackle The World’s Biggest Problems included everything from humanitarian aid delivery and pollution control to combating poaching and illegal logging. Alison Cohan, director of the Nature Conservancy’s Maui Nui forest programs, recently made the observation that, “Drones are revolutionizing the way conservation can be conducted, and for far less than the cost of a helicopter or sending in ground teams.” This combination of efficiency and cost is making drone use appealing in countless other fields as well—from construction and agriculture to shipping and weather forecasting.

Building The Future of Smart Transportation
A comprehensive article published recently in The Economist broached the subject of “self-flying taxis,” noting that companies including Airbus, Uber, and Kitty Hawk are all working on the problem of flying cars. The Economist article specifically notes that path-planning and obstacle avoidance are especially difficult when considering “manned” drone flight—these are exactly the challenges our students will be tackling.
The Flying Car Nanodegree program will open in early 2018. Until then, myself, Sebastian, Raffaello, Angela, and the Udacity Flying Car Team will be hard at work completing the curriculum. I cannot wait to open the classroom doors to our first students!
Flying cars are a long way from reality, but the first prototypes are already in the air, and in the years to come we’ll see tremendous progress in this field, It was even recently reported that Toyota plans to debut their flying car at the 2020 Olympics! Whether they achieve this specific goal or not, it is certain that a new transportation future is being built even as we speak. This future will fuse land and sky, and leverage the best of what both manned and autonomous vehicles offer. These new vehicles will expand our reach, and make the previously impossible possible. Just as the covered wagon once did.
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  #1714  
Old 09-25-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
they should let the owner of the vehicle decide on whether the software acts to protect the driver or protect others

part of the initial setup when they purchase

problem solved
Nope. Problem replaced by new problem. Person who chooses the wrong setting will certainly be sued.

ETA - and manufacturer with deep pockets probably won't be let off the hook.
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  #1715  
Old 09-25-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
The Ethics Committee has opened its mouth . . .

https://theconversation.com/at-last-...ess-cars-83227



IMO, the bottom line is that they really haven't cleared anything up about key issues. At least, it is not clear whether you give greater weight to minimizing injuries to a large group of humans over a fatal injury to an individual (or smaller group).
Good. I don't want the government trying to solve Trolley problems. It's unreasonable to expect our robots to be somehow more enlightened than ourselves. And it may just be impractical to try to implement.

What I'm worried about-- when the time comes-- is that the AI behind the decisions may often be impossible to understand at all. It's not like AlphaGo can really explain why its moves are better than ours.
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Last edited by Sredni Vashtar; 09-25-2017 at 04:36 PM..
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  #1716  
Old 09-25-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
Nope. Problem replaced by new problem. Person who chooses the wrong setting will certainly be sued.

ETA - and manufacturer with deep pockets probably won't be let off the hook.
currently it's up to the driver to either protect himself or protect others in these situations

so if it is agreed upon that the driver (or owner) chooses the settings, how can the driver/owner be sued later for choosing the wrong setting?

and the manufacturer will be protected by either insurance or the courts (or both)

ETA: wasn't Tesla protected from being sued from the incident where that driver got killed?

Last edited by Gonzo; 09-25-2017 at 05:40 PM..
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  #1717  
Old 09-25-2017, 05:33 PM
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“There’s no reason to be stuck in traffic anymore when we can fly. With a flying vehicle, I would make it from Palo Alto to San Francisco in 10 minutes and pay 50 cents in electricity costs. People say it’s a decade away, it’s two years away honestly. There’s no technical reason it can’t be done, it’s much more a societal reason.”
So, when it's not ready in 10 years, will it be two years away?
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  #1718  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:13 AM
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https://twitter.com/NathanBomey/stat...49599986421760

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Nathan Bomey‏Verified account @NathanBomey 7m7 minutes ago
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A Dodge Charger struck an autonomous GM car in South San Francisco and then took off in a hit-and-run. Humans! https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
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Interestingly, GM "called the police to report the incident as a hit-and-run, but the police were not dispatched and no report was filed."
8:06 AM - 26 Sep 2017

Evidently there's a specific form for accidents involving autonomous vehicles in California:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
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  #1719  
Old 09-26-2017, 02:21 PM
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So, when it's not ready in 10 years, will it be two years away?
Does it count if you stick an infant into a box and ship him using Amazon Prime Air?
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  #1720  
Old 09-27-2017, 06:06 PM
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on code & self-driving cars (it's mainly on code, I'm just excerpting the car-related part)

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...m_medium=email

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n the summer of 2015, a pair of American security researchers, Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek, convinced that car manufacturers weren’t taking software flaws seriously enough, demonstrated that a 2014 Jeep Cherokee could be remotely controlled by hackers. They took advantage of the fact that the car’s entertainment system, which has a cellular connection (so that, for instance, you can start your car with your iPhone), was connected to more central systems, like the one that controls the windshield wipers, steering, acceleration, and brakes (so that, for instance, you can see guidelines on the rearview screen that respond as you turn the wheel). As proof of their attack, which they developed on nights and weekends, they hacked into Miller’s car while a journalist was driving it on the highway, and made it go haywire; the journalist, who knew what was coming, panicked when they cut the engines, forcing him to a slow crawl on a stretch of road with no shoulder to escape to.

Although they didn’t actually create one, they showed that it was possible to write a clever piece of software, a “vehicle worm,” that would use the onboard computer of a hacked Jeep Cherokee to scan for and hack others; had they wanted to, they could have had simultaneous access to a nationwide fleet of vulnerable cars and SUVs. (There were at least five Fiat Chrysler models affected, including the Jeep Cherokee.) One day they could have told them all to, say, suddenly veer left or cut the engines at high speed.

“We need to think about software differently,” Valasek told me. Car companies have long assembled their final product from parts made by hundreds of different suppliers. But where those parts were once purely mechanical, they now, as often as not, come with millions of lines of code. And while some of this code—for adaptive cruise control, for auto braking and lane assist—has indeed made cars safer (“The safety features on my Jeep have already saved me countless times,” says Miller), it has also created a level of complexity that is entirely new. And it has made possible a new kind of failure.

“There are lots of bugs in cars,” Gerard Berry, the French researcher behind Esterel, said in a talk. “It’s not like avionics—in avionics it’s taken very seriously. And it’s admitted that software is different from mechanics.” The automotive industry is perhaps among those that haven’t yet realized they are actually in the software business.

.....
One suspects the incentives are changing. “I think the autonomous car might push them,” Ledinot told me—“ISO 26262 and the autonomous car might slowly push them to adopt this kind of approach on critical parts.” (ISO 26262 is a safety standard for cars published in 2011.) Barr said much the same thing: In the world of the self-driving car, software can’t be an afterthought. It can’t be built like today’s airline-reservation systems or 911 systems or stock-trading systems. Code will be put in charge of hundreds of millions of lives on the road and it has to work. That is no small task.

“Computing is fundamentally invisible,” Gerard Berry said in his talk. “When your tires are flat, you look at your tires, they are flat. When your software is broken, you look at your software, you see nothing.”

“So that’s a big problem.”

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