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  #51  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:59 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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More on the flexibility point... a FSA or FCAS can become a "qualified actuary" in any line of business with the right experience. With the FSA being the common credential for life, health and retirement moving disciplines or being multi-disciplined is easier as it solves the problem of "appearances", which is especially important in the consulting world. An FCAS will always have to explain qualifications when moving to any other line of business. Yes, it is true that for now a FSA will have to explain their P&C qualifications as long as there are not a lot of P&C FSAs around. But this is a step in the direction of making that easier as well. I am not talking about obfuscating the real qualifications, which should be clear from our discussion of the AAA qualification standards being dependent on experience.
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  #52  
Old 06-28-2019, 01:51 PM
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Suppose I'm looking to hire someone to work on and/or manage a product line I oversee.

So your argument would be that I'd have no need to ask questions about an applicant with an FSA simply because they have an FSA? Assuming that FSA-GI gains traction within the US.
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  #53  
Old 06-28-2019, 04:45 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
Suppose I'm looking to hire someone to work on and/or manage a product line I oversee.

So your argument would be that I'd have no need to ask questions about an applicant with an FSA simply because they have an FSA? Assuming that FSA-GI gains traction within the US.
Questions should be asked and the experience should be measured to see if it is sufficient for the task. I'm not suggesting we try to pull the wool over someone's eyes. In consulting, inspiring confidence is important. Having the right credentials is one piece of that. Experience is another piece.

In consulting, organizations will come to us and ask us if we can do a task and they will want to see our qualifications. A CFO generally has no clue about actuarial qualification standards but they usually know what an FCAS and FSA are. First impressions are made with the letters at the end of the name as they dive deeper in they see the bigger qualification picture as that is spelled out in the proposal. Having the wrong letters place doubt in their mind from the start. Having the right letters inspires confidence and will be an easier sell. This is an appearances thing. Its about perception and it becomes a little bit easier to be multi-disciplined with the FSA.
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  #54  
Old 06-28-2019, 04:53 PM
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Based on that line, FSA for P&C work will always generate questions (no matter how well FSA-GI takes off) so long as FCAS is around.

I don't see the FSA-GI taking over the role of "standard setting" for P&C actuarial work within the US.
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  #55  
Old 06-28-2019, 05:36 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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I agree the FSA-GI has a long way to go before it is held in similar regard as the CAS credential among P&C insurers. The more FSA-GIs there are the more acceptable a FSA will become for P&C work. Disagree with the statement

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Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
FSA for P&C work will always generate questions (no matter how well FSA-GI takes off) so long as FCAS is around.
The more P&C FSAs there are out there the more accepted it will be for P&C work and if we get more FSA-GIs in the US then it will become more accepted.

Exams do not an actuary make. They are necessary but what you make of your career with your experience is so much more important.

Last edited by mheasley; 06-28-2019 at 06:10 PM..
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  #56  
Old 06-28-2019, 06:19 PM
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Maphisto's Sidekick Maphisto's Sidekick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mheasley View Post
I agree the FSA-GI has a long way to go before it is held in similar regard as the CAS credential among P&C insurers. The more FSA-GIs there are the more acceptable a FSA will become for P&C work. Disagree with the statement



The more P&C FSAs there are out there the more accepted it will be for P&C work and if we get more FSA-GIs in the US then it will become more accepted.

Exams do not an actuary make. They are necessary but what you make of your career with your experience is so much more important.
I think the only actual problem is with the word "always".

It would be more correct to say that as long as FCAS is the dominant P&C credential in the US, casualty actuaries with "FSA" after their names will be asked to tell their story.

Eventually that could change, if actuarial students in the US start pursuing FSA-GI...but there is currently disincentive against students doing so, so that could be many years off.

It will be interesting to see how things evolve.
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  #57  
Old 06-28-2019, 06:56 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Maphisto's Sidekick View Post
I think the only actual problem is with the word "always".

It would be more correct to say that as long as FCAS is the dominant P&C credential in the US, casualty actuaries with "FSA" after their names will be asked to tell their story.

Eventually that could change, if actuarial students in the US start pursuing FSA-GI...but there is currently disincentive against students doing so, so that could be many years off.

It will be interesting to see how things evolve.
Disincentive because 1) there are not currently very many US P&C employers that will support actuaries pursuing the GI track (I wish there was a way to measure this over time) 2) there is a negative perception among P&C actuaries towards the GI track 3) there are not very many FSA-GIs in the US making them a very small minority and difficult to establish credibility

I think that about covers the reasons why someone would not want to pursue a FSA-GI. These are big and important disincentives, no doubt, but notice they all have to do with perception and attitude which can change over time. Once we get an update from the AAA about qualification standards we may find more disincentives with regard to tasks that an FCAS can perform and that a FSA-GI cannot.

My point has been that the two incentives the FSA-GI has is 1) the time it takes to obtain fellowship, and 2) multi-disciplinary actuaries or actuaries that anticipate switching disciplines. The NAIC approval makes this last point easier than it used to be.

I can say this with certainty because I am one of those multi-disciplined actuaries. My employer wanted me to do the GI track since it his view it would fit the workload best as I straddle practice areas. I was admittedly skeptical about whether it was a good idea. The NAIC approval certainly helps me feel better about the decision. I don't know how many of us there are, probably not very many. So I do think it is many years off.

Last edited by mheasley; 06-28-2019 at 07:21 PM..
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  #58  
Old 06-28-2019, 09:15 PM
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My point has been that the two incentives the FSA-GI has is 1) the time it takes to obtain fellowship Ö
There you have it: ACAS + Exam 7 and FSA-GI each give you qualification (okay, the educational requirements for qualification).


FCAS have demonstrated additional qualification through examinations. (By the way, I know many career ACAS whose work I consider first-rate --- I've never understood why we continue to disenfranchise ACAS five years after qualification.)

I understand that you, specifically, have an employer that wants you to pursue the FSA-GI track. Personally, having considerable exposure to multiple sides of the business, I would urge you to consider that if you go ACAS + Exam 7, you are as qualified as an FSA-GI, and are "only" two exams away from FCAS, but if you go FSA-GI, you are considerably further from FCAS.


The upshot: Today, having an FCAS demonstrates more qualification than FSA-GI (because FCAS = [(ACAS + Exam 7) (FSA-GI) and two more fellowship level exams].)

Exam-demonstrated qualifications are not the same as being qualified, but if I knew nothing about two candidates with one being FSA-GI and the other being FCAS, my a priori belief would be that the latter candidate is stronger.
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  #59  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:54 AM
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I don't think anyone publishes "time to get ACAS + Exam 7", but I bet it's less than time to FSA - GI. There are a lot of little things you need to do to get the FSA.
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  #60  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:00 AM
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On a similar but slightly different topic. It is interesting to see the discussion regarding ACAS getting voting rights. This was the first question asked to all the potential new board leaders and the "potential" president elect. Additionally, it was on the candidate liaison survey.

I think if the CAS disenfranchise candidates then people will be inclined to go the FSA-GI track. The fact exams 7 through 9 are only offered once a year is a big problem.
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