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  #321  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:00 AM
bsanders33 bsanders33 is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
That just means that 100mg/week was too high for you.

It's completely possible that you would do better at 50-75mg/week.

The point is there is no one size fits all approach when it comes to dosages. But one thing is for sure, test injections at even 50mg/week will be cheaper and more effective than any supplement you could possibly take.
To any lurkers... I would probably urge you not to test T levels. Just live clean and let nature take its course. Sometimes “better living through science and drugs is tempting” and there will be many who prosyletize for it ... but don’t give in.

And if you do test and some doc wants you to go on the juice, don’t give in before you’ve tried all possible dietary and behavioral changes.

Even if you don’t want to do supplements there’s SO much you can do that doesn’t involve the risks, unknowns, and nasty side effects of TRT.

As for supplements I’m a believer in herbal approaches. The “supplements are dangerous because they aren’t regulated” is a red herring. Vitamin c pills are not regulated, opioids are ..... so I guess opioids are safer for the consumer than c pills. Ridiculous.

The juice peddlers are wrong. At the very least adjust your diet (more healthy fats, periodic fasting), get more sleep, and start a weight routine gradually building up to the point where at least twice per week you are able to do a truly ball busting leg and dead day

That’s what t counts are all about — picking up heavy things, eating real foods, getting sleep and having sex. Giving in to the temptation of the juice and the quick fix is a losing approach.
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  #322  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
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I'm curious,

You have never, ever used T injections, clearly have no clue about the science about them either, and you still insist on trying to advance an opinion that you see as informed.

Ignorance and stupudity all rolled up into a package in human form from what I can see.

People like this guy will ultimately pay the price for their ignorance, problem is that they can also cause problems for a lot of others via their aggressive levels of ignorance.
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  #323  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:45 AM
bsanders33 bsanders33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
That just means that 100mg/week was too high for you.

It's completely possible that you would do better at 50-75mg/week.

The point is there is no one size fits all approach when it comes to dosages. But one thing is for sure, test injections at even 50mg/week will be cheaper and more effective than any supplement you could possibly take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
I'm curious,

You have never, ever used T injections, clearly have no clue about the science about them either, and you still insist on trying to advance an opinion that you see as informed.

Ignorance and stupudity all rolled up into a package in human form from what I can see.

People like this guy will ultimately pay the price for their ignorance, problem is that they can also cause problems for a lot of others via their aggressive levels of ignorance.
Yah I’m going to cause a problem for myself and others whom I convince not to put hormones in their body. And you clearly do “understand the science” which is why you are putting testosterone in your body to live and feel better.

This stuff is a massive fraud that is reaching epidemic proportions.
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  #324  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:11 AM
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The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
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Originally Posted by bsanders33 View Post
Yah I’m going to cause a problem for myself and others whom I convince not to put hormones in their body. And you clearly do “understand the science” which is why you are putting testosterone in your body to live and feel better.

This stuff is a massive fraud that is reaching epidemic proportions.
And yet, you still have zero idea of how a supplement even works. Or any substance for that matter.

I suggest you stop trolling and educate yourself.
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  #325  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:14 AM
bsanders33 bsanders33 is offline
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Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
And yet, you still have zero idea of how a supplement even works. Or any substance for that matter.

I suggest you stop trolling and educate yourself.
I suggest you get off the juice.
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  #326  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:45 PM
lulzEMH lulzEMH is offline
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To any lurkers... I would probably urge you not to test T levels. Just live clean and let nature take its course. Sometimes “better living through science and drugs is tempting” and there will be many who prosyletize for it ... but don’t give in.
I keep getting tested with my annual blood test but haven't tried TRT in spite of levels that have been between 180 and 380 because I don't have any real symptoms (other than foggy brain and lack of focus.. but thats probably other things) and am still potentially wanting more kids.

My drs nurse called and said my T levels were a bit low and that maybe i should start TrT. Got my results in the mail and my test this year came back with a Total Testosterone of 14.5 and and Free T of 2.9. I googled it and this stuff is basically impossibly low. I called the dr back and about the ridiculously low level and she said it was likely a bad test... not sure how she didn't catch that initially.

Talking to family and watching this forum. It seems like there is a big divide among those who are fitness nuts and love TrT and those who are more average joes and less in love with it.
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  #327  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:56 PM
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Talking to family and watching this forum. It seems like there is a big divide among those who are fitness nuts and love TrT and those who are more average joes and less in love with it.
I think it's silly to adopt an extreme view on this topic. BS33 condemns testosterone shots completely, and trusts his GNC guy completely. Polymath downplays the potential unfavorable side effects of TRT.

I would say that TRT seems to work just fine for some. I'm one of the unfortunate ones who gets secondary polycythemia from it, even when we dialed me back to pretty low levels. So I'm willing to try supplements if they've been backed by research to be effective, with minimal side effects. There exists legit research showing that ashwagandha can be effective for both testosterone levels and anxiety (with less side effects than a placebo, amusingly enough.) So I figured, what have I got to lose?

I've been on it less than a week, and I'm seeing positives for both, though I haven't had my testosterone level tested yet. And as someone pointed out, maybe "optimal" T level varies from individual to individual. I definitely noticed less brain fog while on T shots, and I am enjoying that benefit again. In a job like ours, brain fog is a killer, especially if you have a position that is stressful and requires a lot of hours.

If this doesn't work, I may have to consider scaling back my job. Maybe I'm just getting too old for the hot seat. It would be a shame, because I'm really enjoying the financial aspect of it. But life is all about compromises, especially when we're no longer young.
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  #328  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:21 PM
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I don't downplay any side effects.

I have written about them extensively on here, and what people can do to minimise them.

Lets start by focusing on the real problem: low T levels

Now, once you have eliminated:

1. Thyroid issues
2. HPTA Issues
3. Environmental Issues
4. Possible Genetic issues

And you still have low T, then what you really need at that point is a substance that will raise T levels sufficiently to restore your quality of life.

Note: if you want to take supplements when you have normal T levels then knock yourself out. You won't see any real effect and you will end up spending thousands of $$$.

Supplements at that point will most definitely not do that. There is no supplement on the planet today that will work to the degree that is necessary. Anybody who claims otherwise is either ignorant, scamming you, or possibly both.

People like BS33 would have been given one warning for spreading disinformation like he is doing here in any serious weightlifting site. If he continued, he would have been banned. Serious weightlifters have a very low tolerance for his kind of bullshit.

So essentially, you cannot both sides this kind of discussion because the other side is essentially either ignorant, or actively trying to scam you. You do yourself a huge disservice by allowing BS33 to even have a small degree of influence on your decision-making process. You will end up spending money for no gain, while remaining at a lower quality of life due to the low T levels.

To summarise, AAS like testosterone do have side effects. Can they be controlled for the vast majority of people? Yes. In order to do this, you need to learn how your physiology works, as well as how the testosterone you are taking works, because you will inavariably need to fine-tune your dosages as you progress (this will ultimately be based on your blood tests and how you are feeling so your input is important). Your doctor will not be able to help you very much (if at all). Most have a very limited understanding of AAS (and ancilliaries) and how they should be taken for TRT.
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  #329  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:37 PM
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fdsafdsa fdsafdsa is offline
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Bs33 is clearly trolling, trolls don't deserve equal "both sides" treatment.
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  #330  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:40 PM
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I'm starting to wonder if part of my problem could be apnea. My wife says that I've started the gasping for air thing, on top of my already loud snoring. Unfortunately, my insurance requires a referral to get a sleep study. I am giving up my last PCP because she told me I had acute renal failure when I didn't, because she was so determined to get me off the TRT. I have made an appointment with a new PCP, but can't get in until February.

Anyway, apnea can screw with the body in all kinds of ways, including testosterone levels.
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