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  #31  
Old 12-21-2010, 05:06 PM
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Kenny Kenny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acs View Post
Eligible at SOA discretion ... and note that they say generally Faculty and Institute courses should have been acquired by passing exams. Personally I have never seen a UK actuary (non-FIA) who is ASA ... MRA work between FSA and FIA ... But for ASA who are sick of AFE exam one can definitely do SA5 and ST5 instead of AFE ...
Should, schmould. It is followed by this sentence

"However, Faculty/Institute exemptions for Subjects CT1–CT8 are acceptable provided that the exemptions were acquired through an accredited Faculty/Institute university program"

A back door is a back door, regardless of how much it may or may not be used right now, the possibility exists that it can be used. Which means university credit for all prelim exams. Something we have specifically determined we do not want in the US.

ETA: and there is no statement indicating "at the discretion of the SOA" on that page. It may be in the MRA but I don't see it here.
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2010, 06:21 PM
Will Durant
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I've edited my post (#19) because my point was not to debate that UK exam exemptions have opened a back door.

My question stands (and has not been answered). If the quote is correct, this is a BIGGER back door to ASA than the existing UK exam exemptions. Is the statement quoted in my OP correct?
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  #33  
Old 12-21-2010, 07:52 PM
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limabeanactuary limabeanactuary is offline
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Ok, y'all. Would you like to ask "official people" or just spin your wheels here, hmmm?

I've asked my questions, and not gotten answers. Please let me know if you have been answered.
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  #34  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Should, schmould. It is followed by this sentence

"However, Faculty/Institute exemptions for Subjects CT1–CT8 are acceptable provided that the exemptions were acquired through an accredited Faculty/Institute university program"

A back door is a back door, regardless of how much it may or may not be used right now, the possibility exists that it can be used. Which means university credit for all prelim exams. Something we have specifically determined we do not want in the US.

ETA: and there is no statement indicating "at the discretion of the SOA" on that page. It may be in the MRA but I don't see it here.
Acceptable doesn't mean it would be accepted by the SOA ... certainly in certain occasion it would be accepted but an FIA who doesn't pass his exams in the UK would not qualify for MRA regardless of any back door!

Maybe we are mixing two things here:

1) MRA btw UK and European contries => such a FIA would not qualify for MRA with SOA/CAS

2) FIA within UK educational system (could be a mix of exam and university credit ... similar to us with exam and VEE) => such a FIA would qualify for MRA with SOA/CAS (similarly to FSA/FCAS being granted FIA oversea)

The language is certainly vague but the fact and the matter is that SOA/CAS has discretion to accept or reject MRA if it does not provide for exam to exam comparison ... they could not shut the door completely because there are exeptions ...
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  #35  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Durant View Post
I've edited my post (#19) because my point was not to debate that UK exam exemptions have opened a back door.

My question stands (and has not been answered). If the quote is correct, this is a BIGGER back door to ASA than the existing UK exam exemptions. Is the statement quoted in my OP correct?
I guess we answered your question: NO ONLY SOA-CERA can be approved for ASA (this include some FCAS who passed AFE ... thus eligible for ASA)
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  #36  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
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I guess we answered your question: NO ONLY SOA-CERA can be approved for ASA (this include some FCAS who passed AFE ... thus eligible for ASA)
You are incredibly misinformed.
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  #37  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
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I guess we answered your question: NO ONLY SOA-CERA can be approved for ASA (this include some FCAS who passed AFE ... thus eligible for ASA)
so they wont accept non-soa CERAs as members then?
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2010, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tommie frazier View Post
so they wont accept non-soa CERAs as members then?
Correct!

SOA-CERA = 1) person who pass requirement from scratch 2) FSA (FSA Finance/ERM Track have it for free) / ASA who pass AFE+OR Module or 3) FCAS who pass AFE (+OR Module ... not sure for the module) => ONLY THOSE CAN GET ASA (so we are really talking about 1) and 3)

You cannot exploit the system with univ credit and get to ASA (the whole idea of MRA is based on ability to compare exam for exam ... if you do not pass the exam the answer you will get from your ASA application is something like: "you will get ASA after completion of X, Y, Z exams" (X, Y, Z is determined by the SOA) ... IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT TRY IT THEN and loose application fees ...
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  #39  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:03 AM
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ok, for the last time:

mutual recognition -- you have a credential in one actuarial org, you pick up "equivalent" credential in different org. It's never been intended as an exam-for-exam equivalence.

I don't think it's appropriate for the SOA or CAS to enter into mutual recognition agreements. For U.S. practice, it's properly the place of the Academy to set up such things. That's not how it's currently being done.

exam waiver -- you're getting credit for specific exams given exam credit from another org. It doesn't require having any credentials. This sort of thing is appropriate for the SOA and CAS to give, as they give exams.

Other orgs have methods of getting "exam credits" that doesn't actually involve taking exams....and as far as I can tell, this can be going on in the SOA.

I have written to the SOA twice this past year with regards to exam waivers from university credit. Because it looks pretty clear that their exam waiver policy allows this, though this is in contradiction to the SOA bylaws [not that that few pages of verbiage ever stopped some people from doing what they want to do].

I have gotten no response other than "we're looking into it, blah di blah di blah"
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
ok, for the last time:

mutual recognition -- you have a credential in one actuarial org, you pick up "equivalent" credential in different org. It's never been intended as an exam-for-exam equivalence.

I don't think it's appropriate for the SOA or CAS to enter into mutual recognition agreements. For U.S. practice, it's properly the place of the Academy to set up such things. That's not how it's currently being done.

exam waiver -- you're getting credit for specific exams given exam credit from another org. It doesn't require having any credentials. This sort of thing is appropriate for the SOA and CAS to give, as they give exams.

Other orgs have methods of getting "exam credits" that doesn't actually involve taking exams....and as far as I can tell, this can be going on in the SOA.

I have written to the SOA twice this past year with regards to exam waivers from university credit. Because it looks pretty clear that their exam waiver policy allows this, though this is in contradiction to the SOA bylaws [not that that few pages of verbiage ever stopped some people from doing what they want to do].

I have gotten no response other than "we're looking into it, blah di blah di blah"
The SOA and CAS are currently operating in a criminal-like way. Sending a letter to the SOA or CAS leadership about inequitables in their mutual recognition process would be like sending a letter in 2006 to Bernie Madoff about the ponzi scheme he is running.

Letters to the leadership accomplish nothing, the only thing they respond to is extremely angry members.
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