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  #71  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:10 PM
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Colymbosathon ecplecticos Colymbosathon ecplecticos is offline
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You know, I'll bet there is a product development opportunity here....

Not everyone has kids, for a variety of reasons.

Some children die early.

Some children are incapable of developing into cash-flowing adults.

Why don't we assess everybody the actuarial equivalent of what they would get from their children, but let's collect it over their entire working lives. We would need a place to put all that cash, so as a practical matter, why not use it to pay the existing retirees. Then as the next generation pays into their accounts, those funds can be used to pay the current taxpayers benefits, etc. We'll need to adjust the amount collected from time to time as demographic changes become apparent.

You know, that system looks mighty familiar ...
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  #72  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:43 PM
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At the least, it's much more efficient due to the removal of the middleman (government) and politicians messing around with it....
This is absurd. Social Security is almost astonishingly efficient. More than 99% of taxes collected get paid out again to beneficiaries. You can't do better.

And politicians haven't "messed around" with Social Security since 1983. That's 28 years, longer than many people here have been alive!

Bruce
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  #73  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:10 AM
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This is absurd. Social Security is almost astonishingly efficient. More than 99% of taxes collected get paid out again to beneficiaries. You can't do better.
Very well, but I think there are unintended consequences of making the elderly and their children independent. I think it's beneficial for a society (perhaps I should use the word country) when the elderly need to care about the young, and vice versa. I also think that a disproportionate (and excessive) amount of the US's resources go towards taking care of the elderly, as opposed to caring and providing for children. These things are not quantifiable, but I think it's a big problem in many wealthy democracies as less people have less children and the interests of the voters skew towards the senior citizens.

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And politicians haven't "messed around" with Social Security since 1983. That's 28 years, longer than many people here have been alive!

Bruce
I'm including all the wasted time, money, and resources that occur during the election cycles when it's found out that people are going to live longer than expected so benefits should be cut or delayed, so on and so forth.
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  #74  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:11 AM
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They could be doing far worse things!!!

Bruce
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  #75  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
This is absurd. Social Security is almost astonishingly efficient. More than 99% of taxes collected get paid out again to beneficiaries. You can't do better.

And politicians haven't "messed around" with Social Security since 1983. That's 28 years, longer than many people here have been alive!

Bruce
Isn't reducing the FICA tax from 6.2% to 4.2% messing around with SS?
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  #76  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:12 AM
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Isn't reducing the FICA tax from 6.2% to 4.2% messing around with SS?
Not really, because general funds paid SS the other 2%. It's just another deficit causing tax reduction.
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  #77  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:22 AM
DanielSong39 DanielSong39 is offline
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Originally Posted by Colymbosathon ecplecticos View Post
You know, I'll bet there is a product development opportunity here....

Not everyone has kids, for a variety of reasons.

Some children die early.

Some children are incapable of developing into cash-flowing adults.

Why don't we assess everybody the actuarial equivalent of what they would get from their children, but let's collect it over their entire working lives. We would need a place to put all that cash, so as a practical matter, why not use it to pay the existing retirees. Then as the next generation pays into their accounts, those funds can be used to pay the current taxpayers benefits, etc. We'll need to adjust the amount collected from time to time as demographic changes become apparent.

You know, that system looks mighty familiar ...
Great idea.

Any chance we can free Bernie Madoff and get him to run this program?
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  #78  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:36 AM
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Great idea.

Any chance we can free Bernie Madoff and get him to run this program?
Now Bruce will come in and say it's NOT a ponzi scheme, ignoring the fact that a large percentage of younger generations see it that way.
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  #79  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy The Clown View Post
Isn't reducing the FICA tax from 6.2% to 4.2% messing around with SS?
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Not really, because general funds paid SS the other 2%. It's just another deficit causing tax reduction.
Correct. Same thing with the HIRE Act in 2010. No financial effect on Social Security.
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Now Bruce will come in and say it's NOT a ponzi scheme, ignoring the fact that a large percentage of younger generations see it that way.
Correct again. Many years ago, "a large percentage of younger generations" -- and, in fact, of everybody -- believed that the Earth was flat. They were wrong. The beliefs of large numbers of people do not make things true or false.

Bruce
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  #80  
Old 12-07-2011, 10:02 AM
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Correct. Same thing with the HIRE Act in 2010. No financial effect on Social Security.Correct again. Many years ago, "a large percentage of younger generations" -- and, in fact, of everybody -- believed that the Earth was flat. They were wrong. The beliefs of large numbers of people do not make things true or false.

Bruce
Whether you want to believe it or not, the fact is but Social Security is a zombie. Once the current generation of Congress is out, and the people that are currently 25-35 are in, the retirement portion of the program will be dismantled. I'm 100% sure of that.
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