Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

DW Simpson Global Actuarial & Analytcs Recruitment
Download our 2017 Actuarial Salary Survey
now with state-by-state salary information!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-28-2018, 06:20 PM
ronaldy27's Avatar
ronaldy27 ronaldy27 is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 'Murica
Studying for the credential
Posts: 3,046
Default

These 1.5 to 2 yr rotations aren't gonna give you substantial knowledge anyways.

Deep expertise in one area > master of none.
__________________
Spoiler - for size:




Last edited by ronaldy27; 06-28-2018 at 11:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:58 PM
yoyo's Avatar
yoyo yoyo is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 22,117
Default

it's more about getting exposure to different things to help you find what clicks with you best. nothing wrong with sticking to one thing, but i think there's value in testing out different stuff to help you hone in on what you want to do long term

yo, ronaldy, where are you in the south? PM if you prefer
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-29-2018, 12:20 PM
Dr T Non-Fan Dr T Non-Fan is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Just outside of Nowhere
Posts: 92,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo View Post
it's more about getting exposure to different things to help you find what clicks with you best. nothing wrong with sticking to one thing, but i think there's value in testing out different stuff to help you hone in on what you want to do long term
This. You (and your company) won't know what you will excel at without trying.

It's possible that you end up in management because you can't do anything exceptionally well, but are instead really good at making sure things get done, and filling out HR forms, and assuring higher people that things are getting done.
__________________
DTNF's Basic Philosophy Regarding Posting: There's no emoticon for what I'm feeling! -- Jeff Albertson (CBG)
DTNF's Trademarked Standard Career Advice: "pass some exams and get back to us."
DTNF's Major advice: "Doesn't matter. Choose major that helps you with goal of Career Advice."
DTNF's Résumé Advice: Have a good and interesting answer to every item on it for the interviews.
DTNF's Law of Job Offers: You not only have to qualify for the position, but you also have to be the best candidate available for the offer.
DTNF's Work Philosophy: I am actuary. Please insert data. -- Actuary Actuarying Rodriguez.
Twitches' Advice to Crazy Women: Please just go buy your 30 cats already.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-29-2018, 05:24 PM
Egghead's Avatar
Egghead Egghead is online now
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,420
Default

I've been doing this for nearly two decades, and I haven't worked on any one team more than 3 years. It has definitely benefited me to move around. However, that's partly because rotating fits my personality. Here's my usual approach:

First year: Learn the job, get up to speed, pull your own weight
Second year: Identify things that could be done better, and suggest improvements
Third year: See those improvements through to completion

I'm not saying that I'm some amazing talent. But when you rotate around, you bring ideas with you from your old teams to your new one. So that makes it easier to identify things that could be done better. So you suggest those, and you make them happen. That helps your reputation as someone who gets things done.

But as I'm getting into that third year, I start running out of things to do better. I actually start to feel like I'm not going to add so much value in future years. So it's time to find somewhere that I can add value. And I start the process over again.

There are other personalities who are much better at staying in the same place and becoming the acknowledged expert in that field. That can be just as successful a strategy as mine. But it wouldn't work for me and my personality. That approach is also somewhat dangerous, in that you become pigeon-holed, as others have pointed out. Which will be fine, as long as there is always demand for that one thing you can do. But if not, it could be a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-29-2018, 05:27 PM
Egghead's Avatar
Egghead Egghead is online now
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,420
Default

Oh, and keep in mind: Being a subject matter expert works really well if your plan is to always be an individual contributor.

Having exposure to a variety of roles is more beneficial to those in management. It makes it easier for us to connect the dots, figure out how to structure things across multiple teams to get things done most efficiently, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-29-2018, 05:34 PM
Egghead's Avatar
Egghead Egghead is online now
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC102 View Post
The thing is, I don't observe people getting pigeon-holed because their not rotating, in fact I observe the opposite. I see a lot of people with 20, even 40, employees under them who came on to the team as entry-level 1 or 2. As the years go by, they just absorb more responsibility and even other teams. Even the leader of my 80+ person department started in the same department and has never left.

It seems to me like the reason for this is that their teams are providing results, and the leadership teams respond to this by promoting them.



Interesting. I believe that the experience of the people I'm talking about is exactly why they are getting the promotions, as opposed to their wide knowledge of actuarial practice.

Are any of these people pigeon-holed? Maybe. Maybe they can't go get the same level job in some other departments. But they are high up relative to their age as well. If it slows down (in some cases) your upward mobility, that is a significant con to me at the expense of gaining lateral mobility.
In your example, I'm not sure I would describe that as being pigeon-holed. If this person has picked up a team of over 80 people, then they're not just over one thing. They are over a lot of related things. So they have broadened their focus over time.

Let's say they started in Pricing. What kind of work were they doing then, and what are they leading now? Maybe they were an analyst supporting the Commercial line of business in a single state. Now they're doing a lot more states. But along the way, they had to learn the big picture. An analyst is often focused on very specific pieces of that business. The leader has to understand how claims trends are developing, do reasonableness checks of work done by others under them, etc.

It may look like being pigeon-holed, but it is another variation on the theme of broadening one's knowledge base.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:09 PM
TDM612 TDM612 is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 754
Default

I think it's pretty important to get diversity in experience. The only time I would vote against this is if you absolutely love the department/function you're working in, you're doing really well and have a very clear path in front of you towards management and competitive pay. Then, that experience will start to pay off in your company as long as you're doing really well and are satisfied.

One thing I would say, that I've been doing in my early career, is to strategically plan jumps to different functions with a specific long-term purpose and goal in mind, and not to just to rotate for the sake of rotating. What works out well for me is I really don't care about the actuarial function or industry, but rather how a prospective position can increase the value of my intangibles and assets for my next position. For example, my first couple jobs were extremely technical, to which I gained great modeling/coding experience, but it wouldn't make sense with my goals to "rotate" into a different function that would be, again, boosting my modeling/coding experience. I wanted leadership experience - whether that meant being able to look at the work from a business perspective, getting informal managerial experience, or improving communications to management and non-actuaries. Finding a job that fits that description has little to do with the field, and everything to do with the specific circumstances of the team, hence, why interviewing your interviewers is very important.

There's some leeway for you to hop around different functions for x years when you start out, but you eventually need to figure out where you want to settle if you want to make it to manager and on, because at that point, industry expertise is really going to matter. The way I see success in this field is, if you have your letters, industry knowledge of the prospective job, and the ability to communicate and connect, you will be fine. The third on that list is likely what most actuaries struggle with, and an area where you can differentiate yourself from the competition.

Last edited by TDM612; 07-02-2018 at 02:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.38125 seconds with 11 queries