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  #11  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:25 PM
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Changing jobs is so much easier. Anecdotally promotion raises aren't that amazing anyway. It's upon hire that a company has the most flexibility in setting your compensation.

Had I stayed at my previous job, the total comp might have been 10% increase (5% base, 5% bonus) whereas I got 35%ish jumping ship. My complaint about being underpaid netted me 5% at raise time instead of 2%. Woo.

Like Westley mentions, it's too bad really. You're just going to have to hire someone new at market, pay to recruit them potentially, relocate them, train them. Stop being so stingy.
Seriously. Especially in smaller companies that complain about turnover rate.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:27 PM
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My company has a lot of resources for getting people to move around internally, with options to 'raise your hand' to say you're interested in it, etc. It depends a lot on your own initiative and the evaluations your managers give you. I see several people around me that don't put any initiative forward and have the same title / responsibilities as people 10-20 years younger than them.

I plan to take advantage of the rotation program while I'm getting my credentials, but I think the key is to not stop there. If your company doesn't have many options for rotating / changing roles internally (initialized by you, rather than manager), then I think the advice for changing between companies is something to consider down the road.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mathmajor View Post
Changing jobs is so much easier. Anecdotally promotion raises aren't that amazing anyway. It's upon hire that a company has the most flexibility in setting your compensation.

Had I stayed at my previous job, the total comp might have been 10% increase (5% base, 5% bonus) whereas I got 35%ish jumping ship. My complaint about being underpaid netted me 5% at raise time instead of 2%. Woo.

Like Westley mentions, it's too bad really. You're just going to have to hire someone new at market, pay to recruit them potentially, relocate them, train them. Stop being so stingy.
I would imagine that people who are unable or unwilling to move are the ones who accept this stinginess.

If companies are doing this en masse, there must be a good reason (for the company).
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:37 PM
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If companies are doing this en masse, there must be a good reason (for the company).
Disagree that there "must" be. I think that it does work out for some companies, especially those that are somewhat remote and have people that are tied to the area by family or other preferences.

However, lots of times, it's an HR policy that salaries can't increase by more than X and similar corporate strategies. They count salary increases but don't count recruiting fees, and a new employee comes in at a new baseline so doesn't impact their measures of how much things increased - the person that left was at $80k, new hire was at $100k, but since the position was defined to be more senior it doesn't really matter whether new person adds more value than the person that left. It's so hard to measure the productivity of actuaries, so rather than let the senior actuaries make the best decisions they can*, HR puts in a bunch of controls to either force down the raises or to at least give the senior actuaries an excuse for when they have to explain it.

*This isn't a panacea either, it just has a different set of problems.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:12 PM
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Westley is right again. I was told flat out at my first employer (Fortune 20 company) that salary cannot increase over 10% in a year.

A new job posting doesn't even have to be more senior; that company had enormous pay bands for the same level. Like $20-30k wide, overlapping.

Don't get me started on the fact that at most places, the FSA raise does not adequately reflect the market comp difference experienced, all things equal. Of course people jump. It would make more sense to adjust comp upon review up to maybe 10% below average. I wouldn't leave for 10% if it were just comp related.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:24 PM
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I think companies were quick to adjust their compensation increases down during the recessions and slow to update their processes since. I’m admittedly in a situation where I got promoted organically at a pretty good clip, but my changing jobs would still increase the pace of my salary trajectory.

The issue I think actuaries run into is that they’re a relatively quick salary growth career within an industry where salaries typically increase slowly. Unlike sales, which is sometimes a similar exception in the industry, there aren’t hard numbers to measure performance. Balancing flexibility and protecting yourself from lawsuits unfortunately needs to be managed in this equation.

All this to say, I see the problem exists at my current company even, but I’m not sure there’s a less bad way to do this once you get past entry level.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:43 PM
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This is honestly the first time in my career where I feel I'm compensated at market, except for day 1 EL. SO much less resentment and a greater sense of duty, for sure. Things you can't really measure on paper.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:54 PM
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Speaking of promotion, let's say you want to double up on exams.
Would companies normally be okay with this?
They might respect your ambition/determination but there's a chance all that studying might get in the way of you being productive with work.
Also the company has to deal with 2x exam expenses.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:00 PM
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I’d also add that “promotion” is a bit of a misnomer in a lot of cases - your title and pay go up, but your responsibilities don’t change. .
agreed - most promotions are title changes, doesn't mean you go from subordinate to manager, these are usually recognized in time, based on duties and those doing similar work around you

However, the biggest raises do come from moving jobs
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ronaldy27 View Post
Speaking of promotion, let's say you want to double up on exams.
Would companies normally be okay with this?
They might respect your ambition/determination but there's a chance all that studying might get in the way of you being productive with work.
Also the company has to deal with 2x exam expenses.
I would think that depends completely on your exam study program at your company. Mine limits the number of company sponsored study hours per year and asks me to plan out not only when I take my hours during the work day, but my home study hours too (I am expected / required to take at least 2 hours at home for each hour at work), so 'doubling up' makes no sense in my situation--1. I max out my hours yearly anyway, so this would just max it out earlier in the year. 2. I don't have enough hours after work / on weekends to be able to meet the 2:1 home/work study ratio, and I wouldn't want to even if I could.

If you're in school or an intern, however, I think the company would appreciate that and it may factor into getting a job offer.
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