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  #21  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Not clear to me what your objective
From my personal experience, my objectives are:

1. Getting someone to answer a question
2. Getting someone to act on something
3. Persuading someone

1 and 2 happen more often by far, and that usually requires concise emails that get to the point, while being polite enough to get the other person to respond. The challenging part is these people are not under my command, so the incentives aren't always there to respond to me.

For 3, I'm not sure if writing is the best way to accomplish that.
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  #22  
Old 07-01-2018, 01:29 PM
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It is extremely difficult to persuade somebody via writing.

This is what I use email for:
- to document a decision we already made face-to-face
- to inform people in a targeted way

I am more likely to try to persuade via phone or face-to-face communication



My order of priority for communication:
- face-to-face
- phone
- text chat
- email
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  #23  
Old 07-01-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
From my personal experience, my objectives are:

1. Getting someone to answer a question
2. Getting someone to act on something
3. Persuading someone

1 and 2 happen more often by far, and that usually requires concise emails that get to the point, while being polite enough to get the other person to respond. The challenging part is these people are not under my command, so the incentives aren't always there to respond to me.

For 3, I'm not sure if writing is the best way to accomplish that.
1 and 2 are subtypes of 3.

The main reason e-mails are often effective at getting 1 and 2 done when someone is blowing you off is not the effectiveness of good business writing, but the implied threat of having documented communications. A CC to a manager after repeated unanswered requests can go a long way... as long as your writing isnít terrible.

Itís all 3, baby!
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  #24  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:07 PM
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Directors in my area write a lot of memos (ACMA recommendations). The better the memo, the less the second line rips it apart. I write a pretty solid memo myself.

What really helped me was the (mandatory) technical writing course I took in university. I remember writing instructions for "how to build a paper airplane" and we passed the specs over to someone else to build.

My airplane went the farthest.
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You wouldnít be Tiffany if there wasnít at least some risk at any given point in time that youíre going to go batshit and threaten to burn our houses down. Why stop posting now?
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  #25  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ronaldy27 View Post
I guess learning to write very well is a more personal side goal rather than a career related goal but I thought I make a thread here since it can also be beneficial at work in certain situations...
I don't think you'll see many people telling you: "that was a really good memo. Congratulations!!"

You are much more likely to get that kind of response if you do a good presentation however.
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  #26  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:44 PM
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Yeah, being able to deliver a good presentation to upper management (especially to those with less technical background) is much more beneficial than being able to compose elegant emails lol.

Less than 1 year into my full-time actuarial work experience, I'm aware of my weakness. With that said, I'm constantly looking for ways to tackle my weaknesses while improve areas that are already solid.

Again, learning to write better is more of a side personal goal than a career advancing goal.

As for improving presentation skills, on top getting comfortable talking in front of a large crowd, I feel like I need to just learn more about the projects that I've been working on so that I can confidently present them without feeling like my lack of complete knowledge would make my presentation flawed.


Thanks a lot for the helpful responses here.
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  #27  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:50 PM
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Being good at presenting only comes with deep knowledge of the topic being discussed and adequate preparation.

At EL, you can work on the delivery via in-house training programs, and externally (toastmasters is a good option) if you need extra help. The knowledge will come as you accummulate experience.
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
Being good at presenting only comes with deep knowledge of the topic being discussed and adequate preparation.

At EL, you can work on the delivery via in-house training programs, and externally (toastmasters is a good option) if you need extra help. The knowledge will come as you accummulate experience.
Not sure if serious.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nonlnear View Post
Not sure if serious.
Very serious.

You can bullshit your way through a presentation (sure), but when you take questions it is going to become very evident quite quickly that your knowledge of the matter is superficial at best.
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  #30  
Old 07-01-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
Very serious.

You can bullshit your way through a presentation (sure), but when you take questions it is going to become very evident quite quickly that your knowledge of the matter is superficial at best.
That's important for certain types of presentations, but it's more or less orthogonal to actual speaking/presentation skills.
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