Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Cyberchat > Non-Actuarial Topics
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:47 AM
JMO's Avatar
JMO JMO is offline
Carol Marler
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back home again in Indiana
Studying for Nothing actuarial.
Posts: 37,562
Default

I didn't word that well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
IF my goal is to maximize my salary, it hurts me to reveal a salary that is higher than average. At most companies, raises for the worker-bees are a zero-sum game. If my information helps the lower-paid people to get bigger raises, my raise would necessarily be less.
But, since MY goal is not maximization of my salary, this whole argument, and your counter, just don't apply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
You are missing the forest from the trees once again.

In the short run you might be better off, but in the long run, the trajectory of your income over time would be lower as the lack of bargaining power would pull aggregate corporate incomes downwards.

This is pretty basic stuff by the way.

At some point, I'm not sure just where, the corporate mindset changes and the idea is to pay people at the top more than other companies do. So at some point your strategy ceilings out. GLWT.
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Apr 5, 2018.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
All purpose response for careers forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNo View Post
Depends upon the employer and the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Vashtar View Post
I feel like ERM is 90% buzzwords, and that the underlying agenda is to make sure at least one of your Corporate Officers is not dumb.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:50 AM
The_Polymath's Avatar
The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
I didn't word that well.


But, since MY goal is not maximization of my salary, this whole argument, and your counter, just don't apply.




At some point, I'm not sure just where, the corporate mindset changes and the idea is to pay people at the top more than other companies do. So at some point your strategy ceilings out. GLWT.
You talked about being in the top 20% of worker bees, and not the C-suite. So my logic definitely applies.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:53 AM
The_Polymath's Avatar
The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivamS View Post
Why are you assuming there is bargaining power? The majority of jobs arenít rocket science. You can pick anyone out of college for EL actuarial work
If you are underpaid by 10-15% relative to your peers and you know it you can actually do something about it. Either you ask for a raise, or you move to another company.

If you don't know you are underpaid relative to your peers you are more likely to stay and not ask for a raise. The company then benefits from having you work there as they extract more value from you.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:54 AM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 47,993
Default

At the C-suite, compensation is publicly known at public companies. If you can't stomach knowing that you're making $5k less than your coworker now, can you stomach knowing that you're making $100m less than the CEO next door?
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:58 AM
JMO's Avatar
JMO JMO is offline
Carol Marler
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back home again in Indiana
Studying for Nothing actuarial.
Posts: 37,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
If you are underpaid by 10-15% relative to your peers and you know it you can actually do something about it. Either you ask for a raise, or you move to another company.

If you don't know you are underpaid relative to your peers you are more likely to stay and not ask for a raise. The company then benefits from having you work there as they extract more value from you.
I can find this out from our site sponsor salary survey. If I care. I have wasted too many replies on this already - I am retired, do not need or want a raise, do not plan to change companies (duh!). It's also a little bit late to aim for the c-suite. And the 20% wasn't even my number, it was in the post I replied to.

Keep on arguing if you want to, maybe somebody else will respond. . .
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Apr 5, 2018.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
All purpose response for careers forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNo View Post
Depends upon the employer and the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Vashtar View Post
I feel like ERM is 90% buzzwords, and that the underlying agenda is to make sure at least one of your Corporate Officers is not dumb.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:05 PM
oedipus rex's Avatar
oedipus rex oedipus rex is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Favorite beer: too many to list here
Posts: 15,352
Default

if you are underpaid relative to your peers, the company likely has good reasons and you might find them if you were honest with yourself. gossiping with your coworkers about salary reeks of entitlement and immaturity.
__________________
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. --S.K.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:06 PM
The_Polymath's Avatar
The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
I can find this out from our site sponsor salary survey. If I care. I have wasted too many replies on this already - I am retired, do not need or want a raise, do not plan to change companies (duh!). It's also a little bit late to aim for the c-suite. And the 20% wasn't even my number, it was in the post I replied to.

Keep on arguing if you want to, maybe somebody else will respond. . .
So if you don't care and this doesn't affect you, while simultaneously not understanding the economic effects of the scenario in question, why are you posting in this thread again?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:06 PM
The_Polymath's Avatar
The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oedipus rex View Post
if you are underpaid relative to your peers, the company likely has good reasons and you might find them if you were honest with yourself. gossiping with your coworkers about salary reeks of entitlement and immaturity.
I am truly shocked at how short-sighted some of you are.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:09 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 47,993
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
Game theory time: If I'm on of the 20 percenters, it's to my advantage NOT to tell my salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oedipus rex View Post
if you are underpaid relative to your peers, the company likely has good reasons and you might find them if you were honest with yourself. gossiping with your coworkers about salary reeks of entitlement and immaturity.
Ok first of all, your comments presuppose that you already know where you stand relative to everyone else. How are you supposed to know that you're a 20 percenter if nobody shares their salary?

The reason why we have these salary surveys is because people talk. Would you rather have that salary survey available to you, or do you want to be shooting arrows in the dark?
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:42 PM
ShivamS's Avatar
ShivamS ShivamS is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
College: Yep
Favorite beer: Sweetwater Blue
Posts: 3,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
If you are underpaid by 10-15% relative to your peers and you know it you can actually do something about it. Either you ask for a raise, or you move to another company.

If you don't know you are underpaid relative to your peers you are more likely to stay and not ask for a raise. The company then benefits from having you work there as they extract more value from you.
The surveys already give you this information. There is nothing new that asking your coworker would add. And your target audience (those looking to maximize salary) don't need this information before they begin look for a new job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Polymath View Post
I am truly shocked at how short-sighted some of you are.
And you are under the delusion that knowing people's salaries will result in extra bargaining power against your employer and not increased jealousy. Even if you are able to parlay someone else's salary for an increase to your own (which I still highly doubt), it will just end up in the original person being discontent at the closed salary gap between them and their peer.

By all means, use salary surveys, ask friends and anonymous forums how much they make. Asking coworkers that you are not friends with will not have the positives you are imagining.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agadefe View Post

Physical violence as acceptable reaction or outdated masculine bravado as a positive quality is definitely not something the country should be moving towards or qualities we want to see in a President.




Last edited by ShivamS; 07-04-2018 at 12:49 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.43055 seconds with 9 queries