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  #51  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
Pay transparency benefits the rank and file workers. Policies against it are intended to reduce the bargaining power of employees.

Sure, you don't have to answer if you find it uncomfortable. If you ask 10 of your peers what their salaries are, and all 10 of them report a salary 20% higher than yours, there's a good chance you'd be able to increase your own salary by jumping ship or asking for a raise.


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I can find this out from our site sponsor salary survey. If I care.
You don't see the difference between the salary survey and data points from your particular company? The salary survey doesn't split out differences between consulting vs insurance, supervisors vs individual contributors, cost of living, number of similar employers in the area, etc.

One particular job I had I was below the 10th percentile on the salary survey but making more than 3 of my peers where we discussed our pay. That was valuable information to me since there weren't a lot of other options in the area. No real chance to make more at my company since I was already well compensated relative to my peers. So it was either accept the salary I had or relocate. Without the additional data points from my peers I would have had a much less complete understanding of my actual compensation vs my potential compensation at that employer.
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  #52  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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On the flip side, if you are on the higher end of your department telling your coworkers your compensation can lead to a significant amount of saltiness.
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  #53  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:36 AM
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The surveys already give you this information.
I don't agree at all. It's not geographic specific for one. And it says nothing about the role one is in, only # of exams and # of years working. There are more important variables than that in determining pay. How much value do you provide the company vs everyone in the survey? No way of knowing. But you can probably make a reasonable estimate of how much value you provide vs coworkers.

Anyway, i do not advocate salary disclosure to coworkers. Maybe I'm old school.
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  #54  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:43 AM
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On the flip side, if you are on the higher end of your department telling your coworkers your compensation can lead to a significant amount of saltiness.
Saltiness is good. It'll motivate them to work harder or do whatever it takes to get a raise.
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  #55  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:45 AM
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On the flip side, if you are on the higher end of your department telling your coworkers your compensation can lead to a significant amount of saltiness.
In my case one of my close friends and I discussed how much we made. We were both relatively new students but I had more business experience coming into the job as I was a career changer and co-worker was straight out of college. I guess I don't know if my friend/co-worker was upset at the difference, but based on subsequent talks it was pretty obvious that they caught up to me within a couple of years, and really I was a better spreadsheet monkey at the beginning since I had used Excel so much more extensively. So it's hard to think that this person didn't understand why I made more. It seemed quite reasonable to me at least, but I guess it's easier to justify to yourself why you make more than someone else than it is to justify why you make less.

Two other peers were hired a few months later and one joked around that we all knew we were all making the minimum salary for our job level plus exam raises and the other nodded their head in agreement. But I wasn't making the minimum and had started at well above the minimum.

So two of the co-workers never did find out what I was making, although perhaps they inferred it was more than them when I didn't nod my head in agreement about making the minimum.
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  #56  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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Related to transparency is the concept of control. I think a lot of compensation structures don't give a clear picture on what an employee needs to do if they want to earn $X amount, whatever it may be.

This leads to a Kafkaesque struggle for the worker which may lead them to resort to decisions that damage the relationship between employer and employee, including threatening to quit or complaining about salary or quitting outright.

"What do I need to do to earn $X?" That question needs to be clearly answered and honored by the employer if the goals are accomplished. Giving the employees a sense of control results in higher employee motivation and satisfaction, reduced turnover, an increased perception of fairness, and higher productivity.
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  #57  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
Related to transparency is the concept of control. I think a lot of compensation structures don't give a clear picture on what an employee needs to do if they want to earn $X amount, whatever it may be.

This leads to a Kafkaesque struggle for the worker which may lead them to resort to decisions that damage the relationship between employer and employee, including threatening to quit or complaining about salary or quitting outright.

"What do I need to do to earn $X?" That question needs to be clearly answered and honored by the employer if the goals are accomplished. Giving the employees a sense of control results in higher employee motivation and satisfaction, reduced turnover, an increased perception of fairness, and higher productivity.
I've never been in a position to be able to guarantee $X. There are a lot of exogenous variables most people managers can't control.
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  #58  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The Drunken Actuary View Post
I guess you mean number of years as an actuary but most people have different experience which is generally what drives the salary difference in the first place. But if you are saying I can take a lower level role and make the same money because of x years of 'experience', i'll take it.
Uh, it's a grid. Basically the way the salary survey is set up, except with no within-cell variance thanks to collective bargaining. Anyway, it was intended as a straw man, and nobody else even took note of it. I guess I failed at AO debating.
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This. And everything else JMO wrote.
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  #59  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:17 PM
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Uh, it's a grid. Basically the way the salary survey is set up, except with no within-cell variance thanks to collective bargaining. Anyway, it was intended as a straw man, and nobody else even took note of it. I guess I failed at AO debating.
I just wanted to make the point that I'd be happy to do less for the same money. In case any hiring managers were reading.
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  #60  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
Related to transparency is the concept of control. I think a lot of compensation structures don't give a clear picture on what an employee needs to do if they want to earn $X amount, whatever it may be.

This leads to a Kafkaesque struggle for the worker which may lead them to resort to decisions that damage the relationship between employer and employee, including threatening to quit or complaining about salary or quitting outright.

"What do I need to do to earn $X?"
That question needs to be clearly answered and honored by the employer if the goals are accomplished. Giving the employees a sense of control results in higher employee motivation and satisfaction, reduced turnover, an increased perception of fairness, and higher productivity.
lol it doesn't work like that.
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