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  #251  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by silentassassin View Post
I did not like TLJ, but please do not compare it to that steaming pile of garbage that was GoT season 8 (and 7 as well).
The Canto Bight subplot and the quest to go capture a wight were almost identical. Both were silly ideas that made no sense that just diverted attention at a crucial moment. Both required an improbable aerial rescue. And even though both were "successful," neither mattered, other than to suck up a huge amount of time.

Both GoT and TLJ have The Big Bad getting killed early and not telling us anything about him, both with little overall consequence to the plot.
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  #252  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:20 PM
MooBeay MooBeay is offline
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So tired of hearing people being like "Rey being a Palpatine ruins things because I liked it better when anyone can be special, but now you can only be special if you are in a select lineage." This is an argument from someone who clearly never paid attention to Star Wars movies. When there was a jedi order in the prequels, they were all celibate, so it's not like they were passing their midochlorians off to the next generation. They were effectively ending their genetic line by becoming jedi. Obviously, other people were still becoming force sensitive from nothing, otherwise there would not have been jedi for "over a thousand generations".
I feel like your explanation supports the complaint???
However, you are tired of that complaint and mention that people with this complaint haven't watched the show.

Am I missing something?
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  #253  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:28 PM
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So tired of hearing people being like "Rey being a Palpatine ruins things because I liked it better when anyone can be special, but now you can only be special if you are in a select lineage."
It didn't "ruin" anything. It just was pointless.

The reveal of Vader being Luke's father changed Luke's goals from destroying him to trying to redeem him. It had an impact on the plot.

The reveal that Rey was Palpatine's grand daughter didn't. It could have. If Palpatine's ritual needed Rey - she could have handed her lightsaber to Ben - used the other one to stab herself (self-sacrifice and screwing up Palpatine's plot) and have Ben defeat Palatine with the Jedi backing him.

This would create a similar failing in Palpatine's plot in RoTJ where someone's self-sacrifice was his undoing.

But, no that wasn't it. In the end, what mattered was the dyad - which could have existed regardless of Rey's parentage - and not Rey's lineage.
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  #254  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:53 PM
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Kalani Sitake Kalani Sitake is offline
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Originally Posted by ItsATrap View Post
So tired of hearing people being like "Rey being a Palpatine ruins things because I liked it better when anyone can be special, but now you can only be special if you are in a select lineage." This is an argument from someone who clearly never paid attention to Star Wars movies. When there was a jedi order in the prequels, they were all celibate, so it's not like they were passing their midochlorians off to the next generation. They were effectively ending their genetic line by becoming jedi. Obviously, other people were still becoming force sensitive from nothing, otherwise there would not have been jedi for "over a thousand generations".
And yet, the only story we know in any detail is from the point of view of a series of Jedi linked in family lines. I'm beginning to doubt this whole "celibacy" thing ever was actually a thing.

If JJ had not totally abandoned the broader awakening of the Force that RJ hinted at in the last scenes of TLJ, I'd be more forgiving of the "small universe" created in TROS. But when JJ and Lucas decided that the story most worth telling is the one where everyone is related, where the "scavenger" is the Emperor's granddaughter, where the "farm boy" was the grandson of a miraculous virgin birth (again ), any underlying mythology of "other people were still becoming force sensitive from nothing ... for over a thousand generations" falls flat to me.

And now with the Mandalorian, we know exactly three members of Yoda's species, and they're all extremely Force-sensitive.

The so-called egalitarianism of Jedi mythology is now confirmed as utterly hollow. It may give the little kid on the playground hope that he too may be destined for greatness (because maybe he too is unknowingly descended from greatness), but ultimately it's the "great man" hypothesis of history that tells most of us that we're just bystanders in the lives of people greater than us.
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Last edited by Kalani Sitake; 01-13-2020 at 09:26 PM..
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  #255  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:50 PM
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Kalani Sitake Kalani Sitake is offline
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Playing around on BoxOfficeMojo and found an interesting pattern in Inflation-adjusted domestic gross:

Star Wars: $1.6B
The Force Awakens: $965M
The Phantom Menace: $806M

The Empire Strikes Back: $876M
The Last Jedi: $603M
Attack of the Clones: $477M

Return of the Jedi: $840M
Revenge of the Sith: $530M
The Rise of Skywalker: $478M

TROS pulled in $46M in its third full week of release. Its week-over-week drops have been about 60%. If you apply those drops in perpetuity, it should gross another $30M total. That would make it the first of the new trilogy not to surpass its counterpart of the prequels on an inflation-adjusted basis. And no film in either prequels or new trilogy have even come close to their OT counterparts. But the closest is The Last Jedi at 69% of Empire.
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  #256  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kalani Sitake View Post
The so-called egalitarianism of Jedi mythology is now confirmed as utterly hollow.
The Chiss also have Force Sensitivity that is confined almost exclusively to young women, and is incredibly rare.


...



...


I'll see my way out. But I'm taking my Pello Scrambas action figure with me.
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  #257  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:09 AM
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6 > 5 > 4 > R1 > 3 > 1 > 9 > 7 > 2 > Solo > 8
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  #258  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:16 AM
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6?
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  #259  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:39 AM
crabber crabber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani Sitake View Post
And yet, the only story we know in any detail is from the point of view of a series of Jedi linked in family lines. I'm beginning to doubt this whole "celibacy" thing ever was actually a thing.

If JJ had not totally abandoned the broader awakening of the Force that RJ hinted at in the last scenes of TLJ, I'd be more forgiving of the "small universe" created in TROS. But when JJ and Lucas decided that the story most worth telling is the one where everyone is related, where the "scavenger" is the Emperor's granddaughter, where the "farm boy" was the grandson of a miraculous virgin birth (again ), any underlying mythology of "other people were still becoming force sensitive from nothing ... for over a thousand generations" falls flat to me.

And now with the Mandalorian, we know exactly three members of Yoda's species, and they're all extremely Force-sensitive.

The so-called egalitarianism of Jedi mythology is now confirmed as utterly hollow. It may give the little kid on the playground hope that he too may be destined for greatness (because maybe he too is unknowingly descended from greatness), but ultimately it's the "great man" hypothesis of history that tells most of us that we're just bystanders in the lives of people greater than us.
I don't understand most of this argument. I'm not aware of anything in the mythology canon that says there isn't a genetic component to force-sensitivity (and I thought TCW revealed that members of certain races are more prone to force sensitivity than others, confirming the genetic link).
Further, neither the Skywalker nor the Palpatine lineage arose as the result of anything related to the Jedi code of celibacy. Perhaps this code is intended to avoid, in part, the issues that unfolded over the course of the various movies.
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  #260  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by vividox View Post
6 > 5 > 4 > R1 > 3 > 1 > 9 > 7 > 2 > Solo > 8
More detailed:

Return of the Jedi - 9.5/10
Literally the only thing wrong with this movie is the disbelief associated with ewoks taking down fully armored stormtroopers. People make way too big of a deal of it. Everything else about this movie is literally perfect. The pacing, the juxtaposition of action with exposition. It's amazing.

Empire Strike Back - 9.0/10
Hard to say anything bad about it.

A New Hope - 8.5/10
Simply iconic.

Rogue One - 7.5/10
A very well done movie, and by far the best of the Disney flicks. I have some serious issues with the extreme amount of fan service, but it's otherwise a very solid movie.

Revenge of the Sith - 6.5/10
It suffers from some of the same dialog issues that plagues Attack of the Clones, but it's focused enough to mitigate them substantially. By far the best of the prequels, and does a great job of aesthetically transitioning into ANH.

The Phantom Menace - 6.0/10
It's almost kind of funny how much better this movie looks compared to the shit Disney keeps shoveling. The podracing scene could have been 40% shorter. Jar Jar sucks. But despite some face-palming cheesiness and some terrible dialog, this is still a fairly decent movie with some not-so-subtle political intrigue. And oh my god that lightsaber sequence between Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Qon is still the best of the entire series, and alone raised the rating of this movie a solid half point.

The Rise of Skywalker - 5.0/10
This is probably the hardest SW movie for me to rate. I keep describing it as "did the best it could with what it had". It's actually a fairly decent wrap up to the sequels, but holy shit the sequels are awful. The pacing is breakneck, Rey's character arc is so flat, and a spontaneous fleet of thousands of planet-destroying, fully staffed destroyers is laughable. But it also did a good job of saying its goodbyes, there is a minimal amount of cheese, and I actually kind of think I might like the Palpatine stuff. The force becoming so unnecessarily OP in the sequels is the single biggest thing that turns me off about them, but if you're gonna do it, that's not a bad way to do it.

The Force Awakens - 4.5/10
This movie was a joke. A total throw away, 100% fan service, ridiculous action film. It introduced some seriously stupid premises, set us down a path of turning a carefully crafted hard magic system into a Deus ex Machina soft magic system, and ultimately wasn't original in any way shape or form. The only reason this gets a 4.5 is because the plot still makes sense and, if you've never seen any of the other movies before, it's not a terrible stand-alone.

The Attack of the Clones - 4.0/10
The worst dialog of the franchise. A really cheesy, poorly done love plot. A completely detached Obi-Wan/Kamino/clones side-plot. There are some really cool action scenes in this one, but it's kind of the only thing saving it.

Solo - 2.5/10
They took a really enticing prompt - Han and Chewy meeting, Han and Lando's relationship, the Millennium Falcon, and the Kessel Run - and made a high school level fan fic out of it. I was astounded at how poorly written this movie was. The plot was non-nonsensical, overly packed with references to basically every single that was ever mentioned about Solo's past in the original trilogy, and tried way, way, way, way too hard to be flashy. Lando's character was objectively terrible, and his "relationship" with Han would be comical if it wasn't so disappointing.

The Last Jedi - 0.5/10
By far the worst Star Wars movie, this is barely watchable. An entirely meaningless subplot that results in the protagonists getting a bunch of good guys killed. Space-walking Leia. Luke using Deus ex Machina soft magic to defeat an entire army. Stupid dialog, forced reference after forced reference. And endless action sequences because explosions. This movie is a total giraffing abortion.
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Last edited by vividox; 01-14-2020 at 10:52 AM..
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