Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions



View Poll Results: ?
For me, if someone asks for too low of a salary then I'd be inclined to think that they are not qualified and I will pass on them because of this 4 33.33%
For me, if they are ask for too much then I'd be inclined to think that we would not be able to come to an agreement at the end and I will pass on them because of this 8 66.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:25 AM
Abelian Grape's Avatar
Abelian Grape Abelian Grape is offline
Meme-ber                         Meme-ber
CAS
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Favorite beer: Allagash Curieux
Posts: 42,882
Default

In my experience the only time the salary talk ever came into play was when I knew that I was the one the company was pursuing. The only time where it didn't end in an offer was because the amount I wanted was higher than they could go.
__________________
1 2 3F MAS-I MAS-II 5 6 7 8 9 OC1 OC2 VEEs CoP

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:48 AM
The_Actuarial_Borg The_Actuarial_Borg is online now
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsaball View Post
Not always true. On both sides of the aisle, I've received/gotten salary exceptions due to being a good fit.
Thats why a range is best.

If they give you an offer at the low end, you can counter with "well, when I interviewed I gave a range of X-Y, and my expectation was more on the upper end of said range", which gives you a decent starting point for a possible negotiation of the final salary and perks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:12 AM
Vorian Atreides's Avatar
Vorian Atreides Vorian Atreides is offline
Wiki/Note Contributor
CAS
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: As far as 3 cups of sugar will take you
Studying for CSPA
College: Hard Knocks
Favorite beer: Most German dark lagers
Posts: 67,183
Default

Whatever you put down, better have good, objective support for that number.

Some supporting reasons for the number I put down when I was applying for EL (which was somewhat higher than what I was ultimately offered) was the consideration of what I needed to make to support my family. It was also based on what I was making at that time (their offer ended up being much higher than this value).

Note that I wasn't expecting to get what I did put down; but I didn't let them know that.

As others have pointed out, if the company wants you, they'll give you their best offer to get you; even if it's not close to the number you put down. However, how you answer questions around what you put down will play into whether or not they really want you (far more than the actual number you put there).

I'm not entirely sold on giving a range is any better than a single value as the company will generally see the lower value as their target and will never offer you more than the higher value (and you're putting yourself in an awkward position to ask for more than your higher value in a negotiation).

You're always able to accept an offer lower than the point value you've given.
__________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing

Why should I worry about dying? Itís not going to happen in my lifetime!


Freedom of speech is not a license to discourtesy

#BLACKMATTERLIVES
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:35 AM
Woodrow's Avatar
Woodrow Woodrow is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,470
Default

Requested salary: "Market"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:40 AM
DataDan's Avatar
DataDan DataDan is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: East Coast US
Posts: 3,710
Default

Thinking about online EL aps gives me PTSD... HR apps got kinda tricky where you had to enter numbers and you had to enter something. Also had to create online accounts at all the companies... re-enter all the info on resume... clich through whatever system they had... then repeat 200 times just to get a few phone interviews. And that was almost 10 years ago.

So I can feel a little for folks trying to weave through the process with little experience in actual salary negotiation. The process itself pushes people to be self doubting and anxious.

once I had more experience, I wasnt spamming the market with resumes anymore. For my current job I only applied to 4 places that I wanted to work. I also knew exactly how much I wanted and just came out and said it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:47 AM
Vorian Atreides's Avatar
Vorian Atreides Vorian Atreides is offline
Wiki/Note Contributor
CAS
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: As far as 3 cups of sugar will take you
Studying for CSPA
College: Hard Knocks
Favorite beer: Most German dark lagers
Posts: 67,183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
Requested salary: "Market"
especially for those "fresh out of college".

Unless you have something concrete to support a specific number, I agree that this is the best answer.
__________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing

Why should I worry about dying? Itís not going to happen in my lifetime!


Freedom of speech is not a license to discourtesy

#BLACKMATTERLIVES
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:51 AM
NormalDan's Avatar
NormalDan NormalDan is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 10,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
Whatever you put down, better have good, objective support for that number.
Perhaps for EL, although with a bit of experience I think this is a lot more "I think I can get roughly X from someone else, so I'm asking 1.05*X to see if you'll agree", of course not quite as bluntly though.

I think people often have the misconception that they're paid an amount based on something much more than supply and demand.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:00 AM
Vorian Atreides's Avatar
Vorian Atreides Vorian Atreides is offline
Wiki/Note Contributor
CAS
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: As far as 3 cups of sugar will take you
Studying for CSPA
College: Hard Knocks
Favorite beer: Most German dark lagers
Posts: 67,183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalDan View Post
Perhaps for EL, although with a bit of experience I think this is a lot more "I think I can get roughly X from someone else, so I'm asking 1.05*X to see if you'll agree", of course not quite as bluntly though.

I think people often have the misconception that they're paid an amount based on something much more than supply and demand.
But you're still starting with something more than "here's what I'd like to get paid" (which is the primary point of my post).

I think one of the worst things to do is look at "what do I think you're willing to pay me?" . . . that is, worry about out-pricing yourself with a number that is "too high" . . . no one very few people look at this number until they've made a decision on whether or not to pursue you with an offer. At that point, if your number is higher than they're able to offer, they'll either offer you what they can or ask you about this number (if they haven't already). Your answer to why you put a particular number down might change their mind, but not the number in and of itself (with due acknowledgement that there are some companies that would look at that number; but I don't think I'd want to work for that company in that case).
__________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing

Why should I worry about dying? Itís not going to happen in my lifetime!


Freedom of speech is not a license to discourtesy

#BLACKMATTERLIVES
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:03 AM
NormalDan's Avatar
NormalDan NormalDan is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 10,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
But you're still starting with something more than "here's what I'd like to get paid" (which is the primary point of my post).

I think one of the worst things to do is look at "what do I think you're willing to pay me?" . . . that is, worry about out-pricing yourself with a number that is "too high" . . . no one very few people look at this number until they've made a decision on whether or not to pursue you with an offer. At that point, if your number is higher than they're able to offer, they'll either offer you what they can or ask you about this number (if they haven't already). Your answer to why you put a particular number down might change their mind, but not the number in and of itself (with due acknowledgement that there are some companies that would look at that number; but I don't think I'd want to work for that company in that case).
Oh yes I agree, no use in overthinking the initial number. I more mean in the final negotiation in an ideal situation you've got two offers, or at least an idea of what a close plan B would likely pay you so when they come back with 0.95X you can feel secure saying you want X without feeling like you need to attach supporting documentation, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:06 AM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 30,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides View Post
. . . no one very few people look at this number until they've made a decision on whether or not to pursue you with an offer.
That's def not true - OP is asking about an HR phone screen - quite common at large corporations for HR to have 20 people and they're just looking for ways to chop this down to 3 or 4 to bring in. And HR likely is trying to stay within "budget", where the cost to bring in candidates is a target that they look at in their YE evaluation. So many ways that HR has misaligned incentives, but that's prob beyond the scope of this thread...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.25357 seconds with 12 queries