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  #61  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:38 AM
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That's the kind of refreshing attitude that keeps actuarial science at the forefront of innovation.
People whining about exams aren't all that innovative. JMO, of course.
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  #62  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:40 AM
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Qualified Actuaries whining over the exam process being made potentially easier has been happening for years, and years.
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:08 PM
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Qualified Actuaries whining over the exam process being made potentially easier has been happening for years, and years.
That's probably because it has made been easier for years
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:55 PM
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People whining about exams aren't all that innovative. JMO, of course.
That's neither here nor there. The comments about exams are not the issue, the comments about the comments are.

Treating every comment about the exam process as just useless whining that goes with the territory is what's reflective of the mindset. Actuaries are very good at selling intellectual rigidity as rare insight that only they are qualified to dispense.

Whether you agree or disagree with the point being raised, the "just shut up and suck it up, because you aren't going to change it" attitude is deplorable.
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  #65  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:00 PM
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That's probably because it has made been easier for years
lullz. quit trolling.
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i think everyone needs to do this type of thing to get a dose of reality and straighten people up. it's kinda like going to the mountains and becoming a monk except it's with hundreds of potatoes and a lot of stoners with tattoos in a kitchen
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  #66  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:22 PM
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There are so many examples but here’s a really simple one. Suppose you have a problem with a random variable X described that gives the prize in some gambling game. The problem asks you to find the expected value of playing a new game where you receive double the prize of that one but have to pay a fee to play.

You notice you can find the original game’s expected value, double it and subtract the fee and you get the right answer!

However, because of Jensen’s Inequality it turns out that the same method would not work if you wanted the average prize for a game that gives you the squared prize of the original game.

If you formally learned Jensen’s Inequality you’d never make this mistake and you’d also understand the reason why it works that way (convexity).

This is also why you can’t find the life expectancy of someone and calculate an annuity with that duration to get the value of a whole life annuity. That case looks a bit different, but it’s the same exact concept and you’d likely only see that if you learned the concepts abstractly.
Most students that take exams should understand that when you change the nature of a random variable, that expected values & variances may not necessarily be exact transforms of the variable. (Though, this does get further reinforced in some FSA tracks.)

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As a side note: I’ve seen actuaries make this mistake several times on the job (assuming you can find an expected value and plug into the function and get the expected value of the function). This is also a common misunderstanding among other types of analysts.
I agree that's not desirable.
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  #67  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:18 PM
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Yes, because high school courses that are focused on broadening ones entire understanding of the world should be compared to a very specific exam track that is suppose to show competence in a profession.

-Riley
This reminded me of a very good post from a while back:

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Originally Posted by ebradford View Post
I work for a small regional P&C insurance company as its chief (only) actuary, prior to that I've worked at a medium and large insurance company. I can't tell you how helpful and relevant the CAS specific material has been in my job. Examples:

"do you know how to calculate a high deductible policy?"
"Um actually yes I do".

"We want to run some DFA models do you have any idea how they calculate risk based capital?"
"Yes I do... by heart"

"There's been a change in the e-mod formula! Can you calculate what affect this will have on our overall price level?" "Yes I'll get on it right away."

"Can you check Schedule P?"
"Sure thing!"

"How can a company make money with a negative profit provision?"
"Here let me show you"

"I wonder if this carrier is experiencing adverse development?"
"Oh, we could check the IRIS ratios."

"What the heck in a retro policy???? Is it from the 80's?"

"We could never write something that big"
"Well buying facultative reinsurance is always an option."

IT folks: "This 'exposure' field makes no sense, sometimes it's dollars, sometimes not."

"Why are you loading more large loss to these classes?"
"Oh those have a higher hazard group."

"What's the difference between ULAE and LAE?"

Marketing guys:"So and so carrier is tearing it up! They're growing super fast."
"Maybe but rapid growth is actually one of the two leading sign of insurer insolvency."
"Well they've got an 80% quote share so they'll be fine."
"Failure of the re-insurer is the other one, better hope they've got a highly rated re-insurer."
"Yea but how do we know if those scores really mean anything?"
"Oh I had to read about that some, it's based on 4 quantitative and 4 qualitative measurements."


There are plenty of things that the CAS could do better, plenty of papers I would love to see gone and the difficulty level has gotten out of hand recently. But most are extremely applied and relevant and by the time you make it through those exams you are a freaking P&C insurance Oracle.
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  #68  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Heywood J View Post
That's neither here nor there. The comments about exams are not the issue, the comments about the comments are.

Treating every comment about the exam process as just useless whining that goes with the territory is what's reflective of the mindset. Actuaries are very good at selling intellectual rigidity as rare insight that only they are qualified to dispense.

Whether you agree or disagree with the point being raised, the "just shut up and suck it up, because you aren't going to change it" attitude is deplorable.
Top 10 post of all time for me.

-Riley
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  #69  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:49 PM
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Carol Marler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood J View Post
That's neither here nor there. The comments about exams are not the issue, the comments about the comments are.

Treating every comment about the exam process as just useless whining that goes with the territory is what's reflective of the mindset. Actuaries are very good at selling intellectual rigidity as rare insight that only they are qualified to dispense.

Whether you agree or disagree with the point being raised, the "just shut up and suck it up, because you aren't going to change it" attitude is deplorable.
My position is that only those who have become experienced in the business, and -yes- credentialed are in any position to make these changes. It has been my experience that the exams get restructured about every five years or so. Not always for the better, but the fact is that the exams are not so sclerotic as you imply. When a change proved to be distinctly for the worse, the next change was even accelerated. But changes cannot be driven by unhappy students. Not all changes are bad, and I don't always support* the status quo.

Frankly, based on my impression that the EL market is SATURATED (and has been for quite a while), changes that reduce travel time to ASA would appear to be rather wrong-headed.

If the students who whine actually remember how bad it was once they get their FSA, then's the time to talk about what changes are needed.

* ETA
I did learn in high school debate class that the Affirmative for change side can be required by the Negatives to show that the net effect of the change would actually be for the better.
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Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Oct 13, 2017.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro View Post
I recommend you get perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough Exams Already View Post
Dude, you can't fail a personality test. It just isn't that kind of test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
I'm disappointed I don't get to do both.

Last edited by JMO; 12-07-2017 at 05:00 PM..
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  #70  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:52 PM
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Carol Marler
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Originally Posted by therealsylvos View Post
This reminded me of a very good post from a while back:

Quote:
"How can a company make money with a negative profit provision?"
The answer to this, according to life agents, anyway, is "Make up for it in volume."
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Oct 13, 2017.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro View Post
I recommend you get perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough Exams Already View Post
Dude, you can't fail a personality test. It just isn't that kind of test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
I'm disappointed I don't get to do both.
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