Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Exams - Please Limit Discussion to Exam-Related Topics > SoA/CAS Preliminary Exams > Financial Mathematics
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions



Financial Mathematics Old FM Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-15-2018, 05:54 PM
Basso's Avatar
Basso Basso is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The po'. Better cycling roads there
Posts: 3,723
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullinator View Post
Idk I’m too dumb for this.
I'm going to say I took this as sarcasm from your FM is harder than other college courses. Your way of speaking is such that I wonder if English is not your first language, and I mean no insult by that.

I will say this. I haven't studied FM material for more than 20 years and this seems a straightforward problem with a few wrinkles (already covered). I don't know if you are too dumb for this or not, but this material is not so much about memorizing formulas as it is understanding cash flows, recognizing patterns and breaking down larger problems into smaller ones.

When I quipped that FM is just a geometric series in another thread I was being somewhat facetious, but there is a lot of truth to it also. I hope you will take some time to reflect on what your strengths are, and to review the skills necessary for being an actuary to determine if they align.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-16-2018, 06:24 AM
Sullinator Sullinator is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
College: West Chester Universiy
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso View Post
I'm going to say I took this as sarcasm from your FM is harder than other college courses. Your way of speaking is such that I wonder if English is not your first language, and I mean no insult by that.

I will say this. I haven't studied FM material for more than 20 years and this seems a straightforward problem with a few wrinkles (already covered). I don't know if you are too dumb for this or not, but this material is not so much about memorizing formulas as it is understanding cash flows, recognizing patterns and breaking down larger problems into smaller ones.

When I quipped that FM is just a geometric series in another thread I was being somewhat facetious, but there is a lot of truth to it also. I hope you will take some time to reflect on what your strengths are, and to review the skills necessary for being an actuary to determine if they align.

Good luck!
I figured out the problem but I have a question, you can solve it using the immediate annuity equation or by adding everything up and bringing it to time 0, which way is it better when it comes to doing it the quickest way?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:49 PM
Breadmaker's Avatar
Breadmaker Breadmaker is online now
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: May 2009
Studying for CPD - and nuttin' else!
College: Swigmore U
Favorite beer: Guinness
Posts: 3,689
Default

I think it's possible to run this problem thorough the CF worksheet on the BA II (PV the 2X and 4X payments, then plug in that figure as a terminal amount after the X payments). However, my answer is off, so I prolly messed up the inputs.
__________________
"I'm tryin' to think, but nuthin' happens!"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:33 PM
Sullinator Sullinator is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
College: West Chester Universiy
Posts: 119
Default

Well I’m not sure about the financial calculator but I meant a regular calculator I noticed that if I get all the payments to time 0 I can solve for x. I was just wondering if it’s faster to do that rather than setting up and annuity equation.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:29 PM
Sullinator Sullinator is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
College: West Chester Universiy
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso View Post
I'm going to say I took this as sarcasm from your FM is harder than other college courses. Your way of speaking is such that I wonder if English is not your first language, and I mean no insult by that.

I will say this. I haven't studied FM material for more than 20 years and this seems a straightforward problem with a few wrinkles (already covered). I don't know if you are too dumb for this or not, but this material is not so much about memorizing formulas as it is understanding cash flows, recognizing patterns and breaking down larger problems into smaller ones.

When I quipped that FM is just a geometric series in another thread I was being somewhat facetious, but there is a lot of truth to it also. I hope you will take some time to reflect on what your strengths are, and to review the skills necessary for being an actuary to determine if they align.

Good luck!
Regarding the exams, is everyone capable of passing them as long as they put effort into them?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:26 AM
Gandalf's Avatar
Gandalf Gandalf is offline
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
SOA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 31,039
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullinator View Post
Regarding the exams, is everyone capable of passing them as long as they put effort into them?
Definitely not. They’re challenging.

If you look at the exam statistics on the SOA website, you’ll see that on almost every exam, fewer than 50% of those taking it pass. Surely almost all of them are putting in some effort. Possibly many who fail haven’t put in very much effort, but some who fail have put in many many hours.

Many who fail an exam in one sitting will pass that exam in a later sitting, but some will eventually give up on it, possibly after putting in many hours in multiple sittings.

Those pass rates under 50%, or not much above 50%, even apply to the later exams. By that time, almost all those taking them are employed in actuarial roles, where pass-fail is very important to them, so most are putting in a lot of effort. Such people may be likely to eventually pass, but in any single sitting many are putting in long hours and not passing.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:41 AM
Sullinator Sullinator is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
College: West Chester Universiy
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
Definitely not. They’re challenging.

If you look at the exam statistics on the SOA website, you’ll see that on almost every exam, fewer than 50% of those taking it pass. Surely almost all of them are putting in some effort. Possibly many who fail haven’t put in very much effort, but some who fail have put in many many hours.

Many who fail an exam in one sitting will pass that exam in a later sitting, but some will eventually give up on it, possibly after putting in many hours in multiple sittings.

Those pass rates under 50%, or not much above 50%, even apply to the later exams. By that time, almost all those taking them are employed in actuarial roles, where pass-fail is very important to them, so most are putting in a lot of effort. Such people may be likely to eventually pass, but in any single sitting many are putting in long hours and not passing.
I understand the high failure rate but if that person keeps taking the exam after hours of studying for it and fails and keeps retaking, they will pass eventually right? And if you do every single practice question from every study material and understand it, you should pass right? Exams are going to be the same material from practice questions right?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:08 AM
Gandalf's Avatar
Gandalf Gandalf is offline
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
SOA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 31,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullinator View Post
I understand the high failure rate but if that person keeps taking the exam after hours of studying for it and fails and keeps retaking, they will pass eventually right?
That is probably true for most people here. As an extreme counterexample, suppose someone who struggled with high school math saw that actuary was a highly-rated career and decided to take exams. That person might well never pass, even with hours of study over hundreds of sessions.

Many of those who pass some exams and then stop, perhaps because the exams are too hard or more effort than they are willing to devote, continue to work for insurance companies, some in somewhat actuarial roles.
Quote:
And if you do every single practice question from every study material and understand it, you should pass right?
Pretty likely (and understanding every question would be beyond some people’s ability). But then on a timed exam you have to realize what methods are needed for any particular question, and apply them reasonably quickly. Different people have different ways of learning, but I personally think regarding study material as just sources of sample questions is misguided. Learn the material from them, then review / practice on sample questions. YMMV. (And I don´t recommend trying to buy all the study sources unless you have an employer footing the bill. One of ASM, or ADAPT, or TIA, or maybe even some other sources, is sufficient (Maybe with ADAPT you also need a textbook). More sources may be better, but not so much better as to be cost-justified. Much of the extra value comes from slightly different ways of presenting the material or emphasis, not on even more sample questions. (ADAPT, I think, has much more emphasis on sample questions, relative to material presentation, than ASM or TIA).
Quote:
Exams are going to be the same material from practice questions right?
Not necessarily. TIA, ADAPT and ASM don´t know the questions that are going to be on the exam. They have the syllabus that the SOA publishes. They have the sample questions that the SOA publishes. They probably have most or all of the prior released exams, some of which are no longer on the SOA website. They try to write good explanations of the material and good sample questions for the material, questions similar to what the SOA asked before or that they think would be good testing or preparation questions. How well those providers anticipate the actual SOA questions varies, and not all candidates get exactly the same questions. So some may get all questions extremely similar to ones in ASM; others will not get such a close match.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:42 AM
Academic Actuary Academic Actuary is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullinator View Post
I understand the high failure rate but if that person keeps taking the exam after hours of studying for it and fails and keeps retaking, they will pass eventually right? And if you do every single practice question from every study material and understand it, you should pass right? Exams are going to be the same material from practice questions right?
If it takes five or six attempts to pass each of the first two exams, why would you want to continue with this process that only gets more difficult?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:20 PM
Sullinator Sullinator is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
College: West Chester Universiy
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
That is probably true for most people here. As an extreme counterexample, suppose someone who struggled with high school math saw that actuary was a highly-rated career and decided to take exams. That person might well never pass, even with hours of study over hundreds of sessions.

Many of those who pass some exams and then stop, perhaps because the exams are too hard or more effort than they are willing to devote, continue to work for insurance companies, some in somewhat actuarial roles.Pretty likely (and understanding every question would be beyond some people’s ability). But then on a timed exam you have to realize what methods are needed for any particular question, and apply them reasonably quickly. Different people have different ways of learning, but I personally think regarding study material as just sources of sample questions is misguided. Learn the material from them, then review / practice on sample questions. YMMV. (And I don´t recommend trying to buy all the study sources unless you have an employer footing the bill. One of ASM, or ADAPT, or TIA, or maybe even some other sources, is sufficient (Maybe with ADAPT you also need a textbook). More sources may be better, but not so much better as to be cost-justified. Much of the extra value comes from slightly different ways of presenting the material or emphasis, not on even more sample questions. (ADAPT, I think, has much more emphasis on sample questions, relative to material presentation, than ASM or TIA).Not necessarily. TIA, ADAPT and ASM don´t know the questions that are going to be on the exam. They have the syllabus that the SOA publishes. They have the sample questions that the SOA publishes. They probably have most or all of the prior released exams, some of which are no longer on the SOA website. They try to write good explanations of the material and good sample questions for the material, questions similar to what the SOA asked before or that they think would be good testing or preparation questions. How well those providers anticipate the actual SOA questions varies, and not all candidates get exactly the same questions. So some may get all questions extremely similar to ones in ASM; others will not get such a close match.
I just feel like the FM math is so different than any math I had. It’s like being a firefighter and then switching to a police job, it’s kinda similar but different. Same thing when it comes to doing financial math after having done algebra and calculus for so long.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.52703 seconds with 9 queries