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View Poll Results: The building is on fire and you can only save one
One child 10 66.67%
1000 embryos 1 6.67%
42 lives 4 26.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:12 PM
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The kid probably set the fire in the first place, playing with a lighter or other such dumb kid shit
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NormalDan View Post
I don't think the comparison is as bad as you make out. The value of life is very difficult to quantify and so this gives you an interesting insight into the "exchange rate" (as morbid as that is).

A child's life is, I'd venture to say, almost always considered most valuable as compared to older lives. Ultra pro-life people will often say killing a fetus is no better than murdering someone, so it's interesting to see the trade off. If you killed a fetus is that equivalent to killing a 90 year old? a 100 year old? What about 1000 fetuses versus a single 100 year old? If you never choose the fetuses then I'm a bit critical of the claim that killing a fetus = murdering someone.
Ultra pro-lifers often aren't for abolishing the death penalty, improved access to health care, or expanded social programs designed to help the poor, disabled, and institutionally disadvantaged. Don't even get me started on that one.

I understand the point of the illustration, and I do think that it does highlight that all people put different values on life based on what stage of it a person is in. For me, the peak is around 5 or 6, with a slow decline down to 20 or so, and then a more level decline to 110+. But I don't think this "proves" that pro-lifers aren't actually pro-life, only that it's complicated. And it would be equally complicated no matter which two people you put on both sides of the equation. Except maybe Hitler and the like. Maybe even 5 year old Hitler.

There are instances where I'd pick the embryos. There are more instances where I would pick a fetus (different from an embryo).

I would pick a 5 yo kid over a newborn, gun to my head. I'd pick a newborn over an 18 yo.

Also, being forced to choose to let someone die isn't equivalent to choosing to murder someone.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Patience View Post
the problem with your defense is it assuming 1 - 1 trade offs for the other scenarios.

The problem as stated makes your feeling for the people neutral. Not your kid, wife or parent.

would you save 10 people at the expense of 1, regardless of age? If somehow the outcome was known, I think most people would.

would their be any number of embryos I would save at the expense of a living person - no.

taking it a step further, I would risk possible injury for the child even if a million embryos were in easy reach.
I would save a child (even a random child) over a hundred strangers I didn't have to look in the eye.

Also, how is the child dying? Smoke inhalation, or a slow death by burning? That factors in as well. Maybe if the child was unconscious and it wouldn't be painful for them to let them die, I would pick the embryos.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DyalDragon View Post
The kid probably set the fire in the first place, playing with a lighter or other such dumb kid shit
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NerdAlert View Post
I would save a child (even a random child) over a hundred strangers I didn't have to look in the eye.

Also, how is the child dying? Smoke inhalation, or a slow death by burning? That factors in as well. Maybe if the child was unconscious and it wouldn't be painful for them to let them die, I would pick the embryos.
In the given scenario, I would most likely save a dog, rather then the fetuses or embryos

The equivalencies you give in the other post are just odd to me. For an 18 yo vs a child, or 5 yo vs newborn, it is a decision of who can you save, I could not see making a conscience choice rather than just acting.

The embryos or fetuses would never enter the equation
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NerdAlert View Post
I saw this argument on Twitter last night. It's not a very good one.

If instead of 1,000 embryos, it was your spouse, does picking your child over your spouse indicate that you don't love your spouse? Or if it was a 75 year old, does picking the child mean you agree with euthanasia of the elderly? No. Of course not. And no one would claim that. But call it embryos and force a person to choose and suddenly you're claiming that by making the natural human choice, you don't think embryos are alive.

Of course a pro-life person is going to pick the child. Just like if I was forced to pick between my child and a bunch of strangers whose faces I couldn't see and didn't know, I'd still pick my child. I wouldn't be able not to. There is an emotional component you can't avoid. And it isn't a choice I'd happily make.

And this doesn't make me less pro-life. I wouldn't throw a funeral for a fetus if I had a miscarriage; doesn't mean I don't think the fetus was a person.
You changed the question, it's not your child. You don't know the child or the embryos.
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:22 PM
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Id push a fat guy onto the embryos to insulate them...
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:30 PM
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Bullet in the brain pan for the kid so it don't suffer and all those stem cells come home with me.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:29 PM
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It's suspicious that we only hear the kid even though we see the embryos. It's even more suspicious that I'm in one of these places.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Blackadder View Post
It's suspicious that we only hear the kid even though we see the embryos. It's even more suspicious that I'm in one of these places.
The kid is a “failed” anortion and is inside a garbage can. That’s why we can’t see it.

I still don’t know why the embryos are there. And, like you, I can’t figure out why I am there either...
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