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  #61  
Old 02-03-2017, 08:32 AM
IroningBoard IroningBoard is offline
 
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I am well aware of this, that is why I said what I did in my post. I expect the reason for this is usually either:
  • The university doesn't give a **** what they are teaching
  • The student doesn't give a **** about taking exams
An actuarial degree in the US is still supposed to prepare you for all the preliminary exams (whether it works or not is another matter). And for the UK, not every actuarial degree graduate gets exemptions either; you get awarded the exemption only if you hit the minimum marks needed for your college final exam, which is approved by the IFOA to be equivalent to a CT paper (whether this works or not is another matter).



I think you probably don't understand the competition for international students trying to get an actuarial position in the UK, it is extremely difficult (similar to the situation in US). But what I hear is similar to what you said, that exams are not important. Employers pay a lot of attention to schools (e.g. Oxbridge, which incidentally does not have actuarial courses) and class of honours instead.

This also leads to another issue that can affect travel times between the UK and US system, that many IFOA exam candidates are graduates from top schools in the UK. There is definitely a much lower proportion of Ivy League graduates taking US actuarial (fellowship) exams. Of course they are two separate systems, but just putting it out there in case someone is in the position of choosing between the two systems (e.g. Waterloo graduate).
I completely agree that it is extremely difficult for international students. I can however speak from the employer's perspective and say that there are often reasons for this.

We get a large number (very large) of Indian and Chinese students applying for roles. In general (of course there are exceptions) their communication skills are very poor. A lot of them pass a few exams before graduating and place too much emphasis on this in their application. As an employer, we're looking mainly for the ability to communicate well and evidence of being able to work as part of a team. Anybody who meets the minimum educational requirements is going to be intelligent enough to deal with the work and pass exams, so we don't place too much focus on this. It's also just that little bit more effort to hire an international student. Cost of flying them out for an interview, cost of sponsoring and an increased flight risk.

I also agree about the quality of students. Actuarial work seems to be a bit more prestigious in the UK, and you do get top quality graduates applying for jobs. People who could easily get a job in IB or Consulting. These people will fly through the exams, and would do the same whether they were studying in the UK, US or anywhere else. Not everybody is a top candidate though and there are plenty of people from lesser universities too. I work with people who have studied at a variety of unis, ranging from a top masters degree from Cambridge to a 2.1 from an ex-poly.
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  #62  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:03 AM
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ichbinnreine ichbinnreine is offline
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But if you try sometimes well you just might find you get what you need.
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  #63  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:06 AM
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My mind is blown by how rude this OP is
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  #64  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:43 PM
Katuarial Katuarial is offline
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Originally Posted by IroningBoard View Post
I'm just talking about what seems to happen in real life. Nobody in the UK sits exams before graduating (apart from a few exemptions, for example somebody who didn't study a numerical degree or a career changer). Exams are not advantageous to have when applying for EL jobs and can sometimes be detrimental, so it's rare to see.
What if it's, say, an international student who has exam exemptions from an Act Sci (Masters) degree from a UK university (assuming that their first degree was not numeric)?

It's hard for anyone international to break into another market, and a graduate degree from the UK would exempt employers from having to prove the resident market labour test.

Would this be an exception to the "exams are not advantageous" rule?

Edit: D'oh, I missed the post talking more specifically about international students
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  #65  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:17 AM
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Anybody finish their report yet for the OP? Due date is coming up
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  #66  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:59 AM
hjacjswo hjacjswo is offline
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Originally Posted by IroningBoard View Post

I also agree about the quality of students. Actuarial work seems to be a bit more prestigious in the UK, and you do get top quality graduates applying for jobs. People who could easily get a job in IB or Consulting. These people will fly through the exams, and would do the same whether they were studying in the UK, US or anywhere else. Not everybody is a top candidate though and there are plenty of people from lesser universities too. I work with people who have studied at a variety of unis, ranging from a top masters degree from Cambridge to a 2.1 from an ex-poly.
Whaaat?? Are you exagerrating about the bolded or what? there's no way actuarial job is on par with an IB job or a MBB consulting job. Do actuaries in UK get significantly more pay than actuaries in US? I know actuarial work is deemed more prestigious in Asia, too. But, It's definitely not considered to be in the same league as IB.
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  #67  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:14 PM
IroningBoard IroningBoard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hjacjswo View Post
Whaaat?? Are you exagerrating about the bolded or what? there's no way actuarial job is on par with an IB job or a MBB consulting job. Do actuaries in UK get significantly more pay than actuaries in US? I know actuarial work is deemed more prestigious in Asia, too. But, It's definitely not considered to be in the same league as IB.

I think you have misinterpreted what I said there. I said that top quality graduates apply for actuarial roles, even those who would have no problem getting a job in IB or Consulting. I did not imply that actuarial and IB jobs are on par in terms of prestige.

I think UK actuaries, at least in the early stages of their career, get paid less than their US counterparts. This is true across the whole job sector though. A typical actuarial starting salary outside London would be just under 30k. A newly qualified actuary with 4 years experience would probably earn about 60k.
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  #68  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:18 PM
hjacjswo hjacjswo is offline
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Originally Posted by IroningBoard View Post
I think you have misinterpreted what I said there. I said that top quality graduates apply for actuarial roles, even those who would have no problem getting a job in IB or Consulting. I did not imply that actuarial and IB jobs are on par in terms of prestige.

I think UK actuaries, at least in the early stages of their career, get paid less than their US counterparts. This is true across the whole job sector though. A typical actuarial starting salary outside London would be just under 30k. A newly qualified actuary with 4 years experience would probably earn about 60k.
Huh, so the starting salary isn't even $40k. Don't British pay higher tax too? Damnn that's a tough life right there.
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  #69  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:24 PM
IroningBoard IroningBoard is offline
 
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Huh, so the starting salary isn't even $40k. Don't British pay higher tax too? Damnn that's a tough life right there.

After tax, NI, student loans and a pension, you'd probably be taking home 1800-1900 a month. Bear in mind you don't have additional health care costs.
This is also more than the median UK salary.

I wouldn't say it's tough, outside of London without a family you can live a good life on 30k. After a few exams and a couple of promotions, you'd be very comfortable compared to the average person.
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  #70  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:29 PM
hjacjswo hjacjswo is offline
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Originally Posted by IroningBoard View Post
After tax, NI, student loans and a pension, you'd probably be taking home 1800-1900 a month. Bear in mind you don't have additional health care costs.
This is also more than the median UK salary.

I wouldn't say it's tough, outside of London without a family you can live a good life on 30k. After a few exams and a couple of promotions, you'd be very comfortable compared to the average person.
Huh, that's cool. I guess cost of living in UK is cheaper than I thought.
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