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  #11  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:04 PM
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redearedslider redearedslider is offline
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Originally Posted by Dismal Science View Post


AO noob missing all the memes today.

Duke lampard is the name of an AO poster who gets a new job before he even finishes the HR orientation at his current job
Ok since this is AO noob education session, who is ke$ha?
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ASM does not have a discussion of stimulation, but considering how boring the manual is, maybe it would be a good idea.
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:07 PM
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Ok since this is AO noob education session, who is ke$ha?
A famous singer with hits such as "Tik Tock" and "Timber" (ft. Pitt Bull)
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:18 PM
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Ok since this is AO noob education session, who is ke$ha?
Somebody who had all the right answers that very few wanted to hear.
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:27 PM
Ninja Warrior Ninja Warrior is offline
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Originally Posted by redearedslider View Post
Assuming the following are true

1. Future job offers are based off of your current compensation.

2. Job hopping lowers your market value.

How do you negotiate large salary increases if you started out at a very low salary? It seems given the previous assumptions like your first job offer has a huge bearing on your future compensation.
While it is true that your previous job offers have bearing on your future salary, I think job hopping actually increases your salary.

The normal annual raise (excluding exam raises) is around 3-4% if you stay in a job. However, if you job hop, you are likely to get 10-15% raises (at least over 3-4%) because candidates are unlikely to leave their current employer to deal with the uncertainty at a new job unless they are paid noticeably more by a new employer.

If you believe you started a very low salary and are still underpaid, bring it to the attention to your employer. However, I would look around to see how marketable you are before bringing this issue to your current employer.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:52 PM
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2 is not necessarily true. I'd say excessive job hopping lowers market value, but the right job changes can help boost it. Just be wary of going full dukelampard.
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninja Warrior View Post
While it is true that your previous job offers have bearing on your future salary, I think job hopping actually increases your salary.

The normal annual raise (excluding exam raises) is around 3-4% if you stay in a job. However, if you job hop, you are likely to get 10-15% raises (at least over 3-4%) because candidates are unlikely to leave their current employer to deal with the uncertainty at a new job unless they are paid noticeably more by a new employer.

If you believe you started a very low salary and are still underpaid, bring it to the attention to your employer. However, I would look around to see how marketable you are before bringing this issue to your current employer.
Increasing your salary but makes you less marketable? I imagine a company would hesitate to hire a candidate who has had 4 jobs in the last 5 years. I'm curious to hear from that dukelampart guy though since he seems to be able to convince employers to hire him despite the flight risk evident in his job history.

I have a low salary because I lack leverage in my current area. I could fight for an EL position but would have to relocate to do so and the pay jump would be minimal. My job satisfaction is pretty good right now, salary excluded, so mostly I'm planning for the future.
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Originally Posted by Abraham Weishaus View Post
ASM does not have a discussion of stimulation, but considering how boring the manual is, maybe it would be a good idea.
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2015, 08:50 PM
nonlnear nonlnear is offline
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I've been talking to recruiters and they are all telling me that the offers you get are relative to your current salary so don't expect more than a 10% increase even though I'm currently deep in the bottom 10% of the salary surveys.
If market rate is the 50th percentile then that's not even close. Historically they have placed EL candidates in the bottom 10% of their salary surveys.

Should I take what recruiters say with a grain of salt? I would think if anything they have huge incentive to pull my offers as high as possible to maximize their commission. Or is it more like maximizing time spent where it's better to spend one week each on two offers for 60k vs spending 2 weeks on one offer for 100k?
Sounds like the recruiters you are talking to are focused on maximizing their churn rather than getting you the best offer. If they konw you can be convinced to settle for 10%, and you want to increase your pay, they know you'll be back.

The offers you get are relative to the information you give the company you are negotiating with. If you are way low right now just ask for what you want, and don't disclose your current salary. No matter what the HR drone tells you, they don't actually need to know it. If you have to put a number into Taleo or whatever, just fill in all salary numbers with your expected salary, and in the comments section state that the number entered for current salary is your expected, not current.

A job hop is a valuable tool but it's one that should be used strategically, because it takes some time to recharge to its maximum potential. If you're firing that load for 10% every few years you're basically treading water. You're doing no better than you would just punching your card for "merit raises" at a slightly better company than the ones you ended up at.

If your goal when job hunting is increasing your pay, settling for 10% on a job hop is really really stupid. I started low and got 40% from my first hop after two years. Then I did it again (the 2 years/40%, not the starting low). If you are actually significantly underpaid right now, that shouldn't be too unattainable. This is when you consider that at any point in time you should be able to get your current market value. If your market value is 40% higher than what you're making now then any recruiter telling you you can't get 40% today is just plain incompetent IMO.
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2015, 08:54 PM
nonlnear nonlnear is offline
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Originally Posted by redearedslider View Post
Increasing your salary but makes you less marketable? I imagine a company would hesitate to hire a candidate who has had 4 jobs in the last 5 years. I'm curious to hear from that dukelampart guy though since he seems to be able to convince employers to hire him despite the flight risk evident in his job history.

I have a low salary because I lack leverage in my current area. I could fight for an EL position but would have to relocate to do so and the pay jump would be minimal. My job satisfaction is pretty good right now, salary excluded, so mostly I'm planning for the future.
What is your current situation? Do you already have an EL position and you are considering jumping for another EL-level position, or are you looking for your first actuarial position?

How flexible are you on location?
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2015, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redearedslider View Post
Assuming the following are true

1. Future job offers are based off of your current compensation.

2. Job hopping lowers your market value.

How do you negotiate large salary increases if you started out at a very low salary? It seems given the previous assumptions like your first job offer has a huge bearing on your future compensation.
Actuarying rule 101, make bad assumptions and you'll get a bad answer.

Think about that and get back to us.
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2015, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGaga View Post
Somebody who had all the right answers that very few wanted to hear.
Beaner's husband?
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