Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Software & Technology
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Upload your resume securely at https://www.dwsimpson.com
to be contacted when our jobs meet your skills and objectives.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-18-2014, 07:28 PM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,787
Default



Yoyo,

Are you still with Crashplan? What was your experience? Ever tried restoring files?

This person lost their entire archive at Crashplan.
http://jeffreydonenfeld.com/blog/201...ackup-archive/

I've read about others who had problems restoring from them, such as http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...?topic=31168.0. When backing up, everything seems fine, but those who try to restore may be unpleasantly surprised.

I'm looking for an online backup service, but I don't know who to trust.
__________________
A lot of people are afraid of heights; not me, I'm afraid of widths. - Steven Wright

Last edited by Incredible Hulctuary; 11-18-2014 at 07:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:54 PM
yoyo's Avatar
yoyo yoyo is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 20,883
Default

i use carbonite. i've restored my data twice when moving the subscription to new machines. haven't had any problems.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-18-2014, 09:42 PM
whisper's Avatar
whisper whisper is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago
Favorite beer: Hefewizen
Posts: 34,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible Hulctuary View Post
I'm looking for an online backup service, but I don't know who to trust.
Don't trust anyone. Encrypt locally your back-up and send that to an online service.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-18-2014, 09:59 PM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisper View Post
Don't trust anyone. Encrypt locally your back-up and send that to an online service.
By "trust" I was referring to reliability. I'll provide my own security via local encryption, but they have to be trusted to store the data uncorrupted and accessible.
__________________
A lot of people are afraid of heights; not me, I'm afraid of widths. - Steven Wright
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-19-2014, 01:49 AM
ahow's Avatar
ahow ahow is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burninating the Indiana
Favorite beer: Stone 11th Anniversary Ale
Posts: 12,245
Default

What about sending it to Amazon S3? They charge a bit more to upload and download, but if you are just sending the deltas after the initial backup, it should be pretty reasonable since their storage charges are pretty cheap.
__________________
ahow
Badass
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-19-2014, 06:50 AM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahow View Post
What about sending it to Amazon S3? They charge a bit more to upload and download, but if you are just sending the deltas after the initial backup, it should be pretty reasonable since their storage charges are pretty cheap.
I considered that, but there are too many layers of tools and utilities involved to use it as a set-and-forget automated incremental backup tool that is intelligent enough to transmit only the changed portions of files.

Normally I don't shy away from complexity, but in this case complexity could mean making a mistake where I don't find out I did something wrong until I try to restore something far in the future.

I may end up holding my nose and using Dropbox. Insecure as hell, and I would prefer something cheaper than $100/year, but they've been reliable when it comes to being able to download what you uploaded, which is something they have tons of experience with (unlike backup-focused services where less than 1% of customers will actually download the files). And it's dead simple to use (apart from having to do my own encryption, but I am very experienced with that aspect).
__________________
A lot of people are afraid of heights; not me, I'm afraid of widths. - Steven Wright
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-19-2014, 09:45 AM
whisper's Avatar
whisper whisper is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago
Favorite beer: Hefewizen
Posts: 34,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible Hulctuary View Post
I considered that, but there are too many layers of tools and utilities involved to use it as a set-and-forget automated incremental backup tool that is intelligent enough to transmit only the changed portions of files.
That may be more of a software concern, then just a offline storage.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-19-2014, 02:26 PM
ahow's Avatar
ahow ahow is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burninating the Indiana
Favorite beer: Stone 11th Anniversary Ale
Posts: 12,245
Default

Hey Hulk, I just got an email that BitTorrent Sync is getting the beta tag pulled off of it. Looks like it would be an excellent way to create a non-Dropbox dropbox.

http://samglover.net/bittorrent-sync-amazon-ec2/

That link uses EC2 because it is actively syncing all the time and that would be very expensive so if this is just backing things up, use S3 instead.

From what I can tell from the S3 pricing page, 100GB would run about $3 per month for storage, zero for uploading your stuff, and then $2 to download it all if you should ever need to do that. The first GB per month downloaded is free, so you could grab some stuff without paying.
http://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/

EDIT: btsync.com offers unlimited syncing with you data on at least two of their datacenters for 96 euro per year. I might sign up for this. If you need your data back, you just set up a new folder, add it as a location for btsync, and let it do its thing. Can't be easier than that. And it is all decentralized so no one controls your data.
__________________
ahow
Badass

Last edited by ahow; 11-19-2014 at 04:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-19-2014, 07:42 PM
Incredible Hulctuary's Avatar
Incredible Hulctuary Incredible Hulctuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,787
Default

An apparent problem with some of these services is that when they transmit the file diff to their server, instead of using the diff to rebuild the new version of the file, they store the diff, and plan to use the diff to restore the file if you request it in the future.

So if a file gets modified several times, they have diff on top of diff on top of diff ad nauseam. Then to restore the file they have to cycle through all those diffs, slowing down the restore process and if one thing is wrong with any diff in the chain you get a corrupted or unrestorable file.

Worse yet is if they group all or subsets of your files into containers (to aid with compression or deduplication), and do the diffs on the container instead of file-by-file. That way one bad diff can screw up several files or even your entire account.

Ideally they would use the diff to update the server-side file, then run a hash on it to check that it matches the client-side file. If the diff persists after that it, it should only be for restoring older versions of the file. I believe Dropbox does something like that in order to make it efficient to sync with the latest version of each file, as it would be too costly to be rebuild the files from diffs every time a sync is requested.

Anyway, I don't plan to use online backup services for large-scale backups into the hundreds of MB or TB. My large-scale off-site backups will continue to be handled by a relatively low-tech method: simply store a hard drive outside my apartment somewhere such as in my car or desk drawer at work, then swap it with the local backup drive once every 2-3 weeks.

The online backup would only be for the subset of data (under 10 GB) considered the most important and hardest to replace. Storing very large volumes of data online may result in being unable to obtain it in time because it takes too long to download or you have to wait for a hard drive to be shipped to you.
__________________
A lot of people are afraid of heights; not me, I'm afraid of widths. - Steven Wright
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-19-2014, 08:12 PM
ahow's Avatar
ahow ahow is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burninating the Indiana
Favorite beer: Stone 11th Anniversary Ale
Posts: 12,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible Hulctuary View Post
An apparent problem with some of these services is that when they transmit the file diff to their server, instead of using the diff to rebuild the new version of the file, they store the diff, and plan to use the diff to restore the file if you request it in the future.

So if a file gets modified several times, they have diff on top of diff on top of diff ad nauseam. Then to restore the file they have to cycle through all those diffs, slowing down the restore process and if one thing is wrong with any diff in the chain you get a corrupted or unrestorable file.

Worse yet is if they group all or subsets of your files into containers (to aid with compression or deduplication), and do the diffs on the container instead of file-by-file. That way one bad diff can screw up several files or even your entire account.

Ideally they would use the diff to update the server-side file, then run a hash on it to check that it matches the client-side file. If the diff persists after that it, it should only be for restoring older versions of the file. I believe Dropbox does something like that in order to make it efficient to sync with the latest version of each file, as it would be too costly to be rebuild the files from diffs every time a sync is requested.

Anyway, I don't plan to use online backup services for large-scale backups into the hundreds of MB or TB. My large-scale off-site backups will continue to be handled by a relatively low-tech method: simply store a hard drive outside my apartment somewhere such as in my car or desk drawer at work, then swap it with the local backup drive once every 2-3 weeks.

The online backup would only be for the subset of data (under 10 GB) considered the most important and hardest to replace. Storing very large volumes of data online may result in being unable to obtain it in time because it takes too long to download or you have to wait for a hard drive to be shipped to you.
If it is that small of an amount of stuff, it seems like a Raspberry Pi or equally small PC at your parents/GF/BF/BFF/work with Sync set up on both would be great. Free, unlimited backups, you control the whole setup.

EDIT: To clarify, the $96 thing earlier was backing up everything to the Bit Torrent datacenters. If you only back stuff up to your own computers, it is free.
__________________
ahow
Badass

Last edited by ahow; 11-19-2014 at 08:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.49207 seconds with 9 queries