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View Poll Results: Did your actuarial internship turn into a job offer?
Yes 37 63.79%
No 21 36.21%
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  #21  
Old 05-09-2018, 01:39 PM
PPC PPC is offline
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To specify I am referring to those who had internship in junior year and is now looking for Full time.

While I get that not everyone gets a full time offer, it's also true that a lot of the good interns do and very few of the good one's don't. So it's like a Bayesian thing where given you did not get an offer, is the EV of the candidate's quality even better than a rando who did not have an internship? EL is tough overall so I'm sure it's situational but this thought creeps up to me recently. When I first started I basically unconditionally figure internship=much better
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2018, 01:39 PM
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Internship performance evaluation of Exceeds Expectations or better in every category. Large company (Publicly traded, Fortune 100) basically ghosted me at the end of the internship regarding the potential of an offer. As part of their sales pitch they said "We'll let you know on your final day if you get an offer" turning into "You'll get a formal interview for the position" (isn't that what the 11 week internship is for?) into radio silence after the internship ended, "We'll have to get back to you" at the career fair the following fall, and radio silence afterwards.
I got a return offer for the internship for before my last year of college after doing the internship half-way through college. However, they told me if I declined the second internship I could always come back full time. They flew me back in a year later to interview full time. I didn't get an offer. A week later I found out one of the people who interviewed me had a significant other that they extended an offer to. Life has many twists and turns.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2018, 02:01 PM
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EL hiring managers-- obviously someone who has had internship experience is good but how worried are you that the person didn't get an offer for full time?
Not at all worried. As a manager of EL folks and interns, I know that it's not always possible to have a position ready for even the most awesome intern.
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  #24  
Old 05-09-2018, 02:35 PM
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Nope, because they didn't have any space. They would have hired me if they did. However, someone I met during my internship helped me land my FT position, so you never know how things will work out.
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PPC View Post
To specify I am referring to those who had internship in junior year and is now looking for Full time.

While I get that not everyone gets a full time offer, it's also true that a lot of the good interns do and very few of the good one's don't. So it's like a Bayesian thing where given you did not get an offer, is the EV of the candidate's quality even better than a rando who did not have an internship? EL is tough overall so I'm sure it's situational but this thought creeps up to me recently. When I first started I basically unconditionally figure internship=much better
I'm not sure this is the best way to look at it. It's very hard to generalize among the companies. For example, some companies have a fixed budget for their internship programs for a given summer, so perhaps 20 interns- maybe both actuarial and non-actuarial- can be hired.

However, after the internships, department heads need to submit their budgets to upper management and HR with a request to add someone full time if necessary. A lot of times, the requests to add someone full time are denied, since HR deems that an EL IT analyst is more important than an EL actuarial analyst and the company only has enough resources in next year's budget to hire one. Therefore, the IT intern gets offered a full-time position for when they graduate and the actuarial intern does not.

I mentioned I did not get an offer from that internship in my previous post. However, having the internship got me interviews for full-time EL positions. I ended up getting 5 full-time EL offers despite not getting the offer to turn my internship into a full-time EL job.

In almost every situation, having the internship even if you did not turn it to a full-time job offer makes you a better candidate for full-time jobs than another candidate who didn't even get the internship. Also, if a hiring manager were to interview two interns from a competitor, one of whom was extended a full-time offer and the other was not, the performance in the interview would be given much more weight than the fact that one intern's internship turned into a full-time job, in large part because the hiring manager has no way of actually confirming without asking. And if he or she does ask, the job candidate can very easily explain away what you seem to be implying is a yellow flag.
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2018, 03:47 PM
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Why do these companies hire so many interns with no intention of keeping them long term? Is the "donkey work" during the summer really worth the HR effort/cost and the training effort/cost? (I guess the latter is low if the work isn't meaningful)
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  #27  
Old 05-09-2018, 04:26 PM
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Why do these companies hire so many interns with no intention of keeping them long term? Is the "donkey work" during the summer really worth the HR effort/cost and the training effort/cost? (I guess the latter is low if the work isn't meaningful)
Kindly search for one of the posts I made explaining the ORIGINAL purpose of internships. I honestly don't know why companies still do them, except in Canada.
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  #28  
Old 05-09-2018, 05:06 PM
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Why do these companies hire so many interns with no intention of keeping them long term? Is the "donkey work" during the summer really worth the HR effort/cost and the training effort/cost? (I guess the latter is low if the work isn't meaningful)


We are hiring for a few school-year internships. We have yet to hire any intern for full-time work and not only does it inflate on-boarding costs but it takes dozens of hours of credentialed actuaries time to train these students. I would say it definitely benefits the interns as a resume booster, but for a company with extremely low actuary turnover its hard to justify.
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2018, 05:09 PM
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Why do these companies hire so many interns with no intention of keeping them long term? Is the "donkey work" during the summer really worth the HR effort/cost and the training effort/cost? (I guess the latter is low if the work isn't meaningful)
I worked at a smaller company and started an intern program. During recruitment we were explicit that we did not have the staff size to guarantee any full time positions even if they were stellar candidates.

In return, I got:
really solid entry level staff to help the actuaries with elements of their work

a ton of VBA capacity to automate lots of procedures that we were always "going to get to" but never did

created solid relationships with the colleges and universities in our area

created an HR pipeline not just for actuarial talent, but also other areas of the organization.

Development opportunities to prepare staff actuaries to become future leaders by introducing them to HR procedures, evaluating talent, giving clear direction, etc.

The entire time I was there we kept it going, and it has continued years after I've left, and is considered to be a huge success organizationally.

My replacement was an actuary that had gained a great deal of respect as a leader through the internship program. Without that program I can't say they would still have been considered the automatic replacement.

So yes, internship programs have value even if not just for the potential new hire talent. At least they have in my experience.
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