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  #61  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:11 PM
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University of Phoenix appears 4 times in the bottom 11. haha
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  #62  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Forever Student View Post
University of Phoenix appears 4 times in the bottom 11. haha
Some of the campuses have higher values than the bottom end of EL actuarials
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Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
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  #63  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:52 PM
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“Here and Now” is shilling for the College Board

Did you think public radio doesn’t have advertising? Think again.

Last week Here and Now’s host Jeremy Hobson set up College Board’s James Montoya for a perfect advertisement regarding a story on SAT scores going down. The transcript and recording are here (hat tip Becky Jaffe).

To set it up, they talk about how GPA’s are going up on average over the country but how, at the same time, the average SAT score went down last year.

Somehow the interpretation of this is that there’s grade inflation and that kids must be in need of more test prep because they’re dumber.

What is the College Board?

You might think, especially if you listen to this interview, that the college board is a thoughtful non-profit dedicated to getting kids prepared for college.

Make no mistake about it: the College Board is a big business, and much of their money comes from selling test prep stuff on top of administering tests. Here are a couple of things you might want to know about College Board through its wikipedia page:

Consumer rights organization Americans for Educational Testing Reform (AETR) has criticized College Board for violating its non-profit status through excessive profits and exorbitant executive compensation; nineteen of its executives make more than $300,000 per year, with CEO Gaston Caperton earning $1.3 million in 2009 (including deferred compensation).[10][11] AETR also claims that College Board is acting unethically by selling test preparation materials, directly lobbying legislators and government officials, and refusing to acknowledge test-taker rights.[12]

Anyhoo, let’s just say it this way: College Board has the ability to create an “emergency” about SAT scores, by say changing the test or making it harder, and then the only “reasonable response” is to pay for yet more test prep. And somehow Here and Now’s host Jeremy Hobson didn’t see this coming at all.

The interview

Here’s an excerpt:

HOBSON: It also suggests, when you look at the year-over-year scores, the averages, that things are getting worse, not better, because if I look at, for example, in critical reading in 2006, the average being 503, and now it’s 496. Same deal in math and writing. They’ve gone down.

MONTOYA: Well, at the same time that we have seen the scores go down, what’s very interesting is that we have seen the average GPAs reported going up. So, for example, when we look at SAT test takers this year, 48 percent reported having a GPA in the A range compared to 45 percent last year, compared to 44 percent in 2011, I think, suggesting that there simply have to be more rigor in core courses.

HOBSON: Well, and maybe that there’s grade inflation going on.

MONTOYA: Well, clearly, that there is grade inflation. There is no question about that. And it’s one of the reasons why standardized test scores are so important in the admission office. I know that, as a former dean of admission, test scores help gauge the meaning of a GPA, particularly given the fact that nearly half of all SAT takers are reporting a GPA in the A range.

Just to be super clear about the shilling, here’s Hobson a bit later in the interview:

HOBSON: Well – and we should say that your report noted – since you mentioned practice – that as is the case with the ACT, the students who take the rigorous prep courses do better on the SAT.

What does it really mean when SAT scores go down?

Here’s the thing. SAT scores are ****ed with ALL THE TIME. Traditionally, they had to make SAT’s harder since people were getting better at them. As test-makers, they want a good bell curve, so they need to adjust the test as the population changes and as their habits of test prep change.

The result is that SAT tests are different every year, so just saying that the scores went down from year to year is meaningless. Even if the same group of kids took those two different tests in the same year, they’d have different scores.

Also, according to my friend Becky who works with kids preparing for the SAT, they really did make substantial changes recently in the math section, changing the function notation, which makes it much harder for kids to parse the questions. In other words, they switched something around to give kids reason to pay for more test prep.

Important: this has nothing to do with their knowledge, it has to do with their training for this specific test.

If you want to understand the issues outside of math, take for example the essay. According to this critique, the number one criterion for essay grade is length. Length trumps clarity of expression, relevance of the supporting arguments to the thesis, mechanics, and all other elements of quality writing. As my friend Becky says:

I have coached high school students on the SAT for years and have found time and again, much to my chagrin, that students receive top scores for long essays even if they are desultory, tangent-filled and riddled with sentence fragments, run-ons, and spelling errors.

Similarly, I have consistently seen students receive low scores for shorter essays that are thoughtful and sophisticated, logical and coherent, stylish and articulate.

As long as the number one criterion for receiving a high score on the SAT essay is length, students will be confused as to what constitutes successful college writing and scoring well on the written portion of the exam will remain essentially meaningless. High-scoring students will have to unlearn the strategies that led to success on the SAT essay and relearn the fundamentals of written expression in a college writing class.

If the College Board (the makers of the SAT) is so concerned about the dumbing down of American children, they should examine their own role in lowering and distorting the standards for written expression.

Conclusion

Two things. First, shame on College Board and James Montoya for acting like SAT scores are somehow beacons of truth without acknowledging the fiddling that goes on time and time again by his company. And second, shame on Here and Now and Jemery Hobson for being utterly naive and buying in entirely to this scare tactic.

http://mathbabe.org/2013/09/30/here-...college-board/
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Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
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  #64  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:56 PM
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From what I've seen, SAT scores by race are pretty constant.
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  #65  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I've taken a lot of standardized entrance tests. (Actuarial exams do not fall into that category)

There wasn't a single one of them that you couldn't prep for an improve your score rather significantly.
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  #66  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Oveur View Post
I've taken a lot of standardized entrance tests. (Actuarial exams do not fall into that category)

There wasn't a single one of them that you couldn't prep for an improve your score rather significantly.
There are few tests out there where one individual can study 0 hours, and one individual can study 1,000 hours, and the individual who studied 0 hours can come out on top. Standardized tests are one of those few tests where this occurs on a regular basis.
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  #67  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:17 PM
Captain Oveur Captain Oveur is offline
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Originally Posted by Ke$ha View Post
There are few tests out there where one individual can study 0 hours, and one individual can study 1,000 hours, and the individual who studied 0 hours can come out on top. Standardized tests are one of those few tests where this occurs on a regular basis.
While that's true, that doesn't have anything to do with what I said.
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  #68  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Oveur View Post
I've taken a lot of standardized entrance tests. (Actuarial exams do not fall into that category)

There wasn't a single one of them that you couldn't prep for an improve your score rather significantly.
I disagree, actuarial exams are the mother of all standardized test.
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  #69  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:18 PM
Captain Oveur Captain Oveur is offline
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Originally Posted by dailos View Post
I disagree, actuarial exams are the mother of all standardized test.
Actuarial exams are not a standardized test.

Examples of standardized tests are the SAT, LSAT, GRE, GMAT, etc.
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  #70  
Old 09-30-2013, 05:25 PM
dailos dailos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Oveur View Post
Actuarial exams are not a standardized test.

Examples of standardized tests are the SAT, LSAT, GRE, GMAT, etc.
How are actuarial exams not standardized tests, spend time studying the material then you do practice exams.

And then regurgitate the material in a 3 hour MC test.

None of the things you do is original, all the problems were solved you are just memorizing the solution.

If that isn't the definition of standardized test then tell me what is?
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